Cider-Head23 Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Anyone know if anything come of the woman so called verbally abused by City fans on the train back from Reading? @JulieH ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 hours ago, OneWordCityNerd said: ...bits Ha, dammit, :laugh:, it was late, what a plonker ... oh bugger, 'one word' how apt, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 OK, now the TV coverage has done it's usual sensationalistic headlines about football fans again, let's look at some FACTS! In 2016/17 season there were over 18m fans that watched EFL fixtures AND 13m that watched Premier league fxitures It is reported that 38% of people attending games travel by train - so for EFL matches that means that there are 6.84m journeys being made by train There were 766 football related "arrests" on and around trains last season In the EFL that is ONE "arrest" for every 8929 journeys made - NOT CONVICTIONS So approximately 11780000 supporters travel by train during a season, this equates to ONE ARREST (NOT convictions) for every 15,378 journeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, phantom said: OK, now the TV coverage has done it's usual sensationalistic headlines about football fans again, let's look at some FACTS! In 2016/17 season there were over 18m fans that watched EFL fixtures AND 13m that watched Premier league fxitures It is reported that 38% of people attending games travel by train - so for EFL matches that means that there are 6.84m journeys being made by train There were 766 football related "arrests" on and around trains last season In the EFL that is ONE "arrest" for every 8929 journeys made - NOT CONVICTIONS So approximately 11780000 supporters travel by train during a season, this equates to ONE ARREST (NOT convictions) for every 15,378 journeys Just because there weren't any arrests doesn't mean nothing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 I used to spend my working day travelling on trains in a previous job, when there were football fans on board I would always ensure I was either in with the Driver or sat in the back cab, the behaviour is often appalling, singing, chanting, foul language, intimidation- either intentional or unintentional - many passengers journeys spoilt. Obviously, there are also many who travel and treat their fellow travellers and the train staff with respect, but it only takes one small group to affect the atmosphere in a very negative way, a train is a fairly confined space and given that they are often full, it’s not easy for people to move to another carriage. Plenty of other groups can be a nuisance when drunk, Rugby fans, try travelling on the trains back from the Cheltenham festival..... full of drunks, but not usually intimidating, some of the worst can those in their fancy blazers and very expensive clobber returning from the Henley regatta, posh pricks who act like they are superior to others travelling and staff. Another ‘fun’ trip is when Cardiff university travel to Swansea to play them at football or rugby, the bloody students actually set fire to one of the carriages 3 or 4 years ago, they thought it was funny - the people with kids etc didn’t look amused when the carriage was full of smoke, I had to stop the train, isolate the electrical supply and try and trace where the fire was, whilst getting people to move down the train. Bloody students....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 44 minutes ago, phantom said: OK, now the TV coverage has done it's usual sensationalistic headlines about football fans again, let's look at some FACTS! In 2016/17 season there were over 18m fans that watched EFL fixtures AND 13m that watched Premier league fxitures It is reported that 38% of people attending games travel by train - so for EFL matches that means that there are 6.84m journeys being made by train There were 766 football related "arrests" on and around trains last season In the EFL that is ONE "arrest" for every 8929 journeys made - NOT CONVICTIONS So approximately 11780000 supporters travel by train during a season, this equates to ONE ARREST (NOT convictions) for every 15,378 journeys But should anyone be made to feel uncomfortable or threatened while using any form of transport (plane, train, bus or taxi)? I’d suggest not! As a white male who is 6ft+ & about 15 stone & who has watched football all over the country for the best part of 30+ years, I’m pretty well versed in football ‘banter’ & drunken ‘banter’, I wouldn’t like to be stuck on a train or coach with someone who thinks it’s acceptable to use racist ‘banter’ or constantly using foul language & if I was with my daughter I’d be even less impressed!! And I wouldn’t consider myself easily offended either but there is a time & a place for such behaviour & language if you so desire to use it, what happens in the privacy of someone’s own home is that person's own choice but when everyone has paid to travel on their mode of transport to get to where they want to get to, why should they have to put up with some ‘hard man’ who thinks they’re big & clever? What would be the general feeling (this is open to everyone) if your mother, wife, partner or child came home & told you that a group of football fans (or anyone for that matter) were making crude, racist or offensive comments to your family member? Would you tell them to ‘man up’ & get over it, it’s just banter!?! I certainly wouldn’t be happy with such a situation & certainly wouldn’t be happy with those family members traveling on such a mode of transport again! And for the record, I grew up watching racist / offensive acts on tv & thinking it was normal (Jim Davidson, Bernard Manning, Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown, Alf Garnett etc) & I also grew up swearing like a trooper but not in an enclosed public area (such as a train or coach etc) & I would most definitely never of used racist language despite it seemingly being acceptable in the 70’s & 80’s while I was growing up! Simply put, it shouldn’t be seen as acceptable behaviour by anyone & people are right to complain to the police about incidents!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Tipps69 said: But should anyone be made to feel uncomfortable or threatened while using any form of transport (plane, train, bus or taxi)? I’d suggest not! And for the record, I grew up watching racist / offensive acts on tv & thinking it was normal (Jim Davidson, Bernard Manning, Roy ‘Chubby’ Brown, Alf Garnett etc) & I also grew up swearing like a trooper but not in an enclosed public area (such as a train or coach etc) & I would most definitely never of used racist language despite it seemingly being acceptable in the 70’s & 80’s while I was growing up! Simply put, it shouldn’t be seen as acceptable behaviour by anyone & people are right to complain to the police about incidents!! I understand and, for the most part, agree with your sentiment, but Alf Garnett's character was, of course, a satirical one, and was intended to ridicule (in a humorous manner) the racist, bigoted views to which you refer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: I understand and, for the most part, agree with your sentiment, but Alf Garnett's character was, of course, a satirical one, and was intended to ridicule (in a humorous manner) the racist, bigoted views to which you refer. As was the film Blazing Saddles, but it has fans from both ends of the spectrum, as some people don’t seem to understand satire and irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: I understand and, for the most part, agree with your sentiment, but Alf Garnett's character was, of course, a satirical one, and was intended to ridicule (in a humorous manner) the racist, bigoted views to which you refer. But that was accepted as part of society & as such it was part of life & people would use similar language at school, work etc. It’s not acceptable now & isn’t used in comedy nowadays so the ‘banter’ card can’t really be played, can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 19 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: I understand and, for the most part, agree with your sentiment, but Alf Garnett's character was, of course, a satirical one, and was intended to ridicule (in a humorous manner) the racist, bigoted views to which you refer. Agreed. The same with "Love Thy Neighbour" where again the object of ridicule was the white bigot, however many people fail to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, Tipps69 said: But that was accepted as part of society & as such it was part of life & people would use similar language at school, work etc. It’s not acceptable now & isn’t used in comedy nowadays so the ‘banter’ card can’t really be played, can it? Agree with what you are saying Tipp's but I'm not sure it was banter but rather ridicule towards the racist bigot. Remember as well that we now live in different times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said: As was the film Blazing Saddles, but it has fans from both ends of the spectrum, as some people don’t seem to understand satire and irony. 11 minutes ago, BigTone said: Agreed. The same with "Love Thy Neighbour" where again the object of ridicule was the white bigot, however many people fail to see this. Indeed. There are none so blind as those who will not see. John Cleese's Basil Fawlty character (snob/racist) was a similar example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTone Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said: There are none so blind as those who will not see. Where ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 10 minutes ago, BigTone said: Agree with what you are saying Tipp's but I'm not sure it was banter but rather ridicule towards the racist bigot. Remember as well that we now live in different times. But the point is Tone, is that that sort of humour was acceptable back then, having digs at different ethnicities etc & now it’s not accepted because as you say, we live in different times. There is a time & a place for everything & on public transport or in a public area isn’t one of those times & places. I’d say the nearest thing to those programs on tv now is Mrs Browns Boys, which tends to take the piss out of the Irish but even that doesn’t touch a person’s skin colour. Surely it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realise what you can say in your own home or in front of like minded people but if someone says the same things openly in front of everyone it’s going to be seen as unacceptable! Similarly, the recent threads we’ve had on otib about racist language being heard at Ashton Gate, one person saying it is one too many & one person hearing it is one too many. Everyone has paid their money for entertainment, not to be made to feel uncomfortable or aggrieved & if those people decide to no longer attend games it’s money the club are missing out on etc, it may only be one or two people to start with but if more people think it’s acceptable to use such words & language, the more people it will offend & before you know it the clubs reputation is in tatters & the team are playing in front of reduced gates. It’s all a matter of each to their own I guess Tone but I’d like to think that society has moved forward a bit now & that people won’t just accept things now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 21 minutes ago, Tipps69 said: But that was accepted as part of society & as such it was part of life & people would use similar language at school, work etc. It’s not acceptable now & isn’t used in comedy nowadays so the ‘banter’ card can’t really be played, can it? I seem to remember, as a schoolboy, using the 'humorous' phrase Silly Moo and, as this would equate today to 'Silly Cow', obviously this would now be considered correctly as being insulting: I have no recollection of using any racist comments from the TDDUP shows or, indeed, any racist comments in general. I do recall, however, (in a football, away trip, environment) shouting out from a minibus window to a passing Sikh that I hoped his head got better soon: at the time, this was quite hilarious, both to me and my fellow passengers/fans. It goes without saying that this was unacceptable at the time and, today, would most likely render me liable to prosecution - and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Tipps69 said: But should anyone be made to feel uncomfortable or threatened while using any form of transport (plane, train, bus or taxi)? I’d suggest not! The point I was trying to make (and badly) @Tipps69 is that these incidents ARE few and far between and not a regular thing that these sort of programmes makes it out to be Sadly in this day and age bad things happen in all walks of life and acts in the day - for the programme to imply it is unique to football supporters and those using the train is nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, phantom said: The point I was trying to make (and badly) @Tipps69 is that these incidents ARE few and far between and not a regular thing that these sort of programmes makes it out to be Sadly in this day and age bad things happen in all walks of life and acts in the day - for the programme to imply it is unique to football supporters and those using the train is nonsense Because lots of people don't do anything about it and will just move seats etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 35 minutes ago, BigTone said: Agreed. The same with "Love Thy Neighbour" where again the object of ridicule was the white bigot, however many people fail to see this. Back in the late 1970s, I had the pleasure, on several occasions, of meeting Nina Baden-Semper (Barbie Reynolds from Love Thy Neighbour). Whilst it should be of no surprise to anybody, she was one of the most pleasant and charming (not to mention beautiful!) women I had ever met at that stage of my life or, indeed, since. Oh, and she is black. But, of course, why should I even have to mention her colour, unless to justify that 'She was black, but quite nice actually'. Thankfully, Tipps, those days have long gone, and any remaining neanderthals are just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Super said: Because lots of people don't do anything about it and will just move seats etc Assuming you travel to football by train most weeks then @Super ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 26 minutes ago, phantom said: Assuming you travel to football by train most weeks then @Super ? Haven't for a long time now. Maybe it's not as bad these days but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, Super said: Haven't for a long time now. Maybe it's not as bad these days but I doubt it. Was only going to say, I have only been 5 times away this season by train - all home games. Seemed much better this season But hopefully we have lost "that element" of support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipps69 Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 3 hours ago, phantom said: The point I was trying to make (and badly) @Tipps69 is that these incidents ARE few and far between and not a regular thing that these sort of programmes makes it out to be Sadly in this day and age bad things happen in all walks of life and acts in the day - for the programme to imply it is unique to football supporters and those using the train is nonsense I guess the point of the program in question was that you don’t get these types of incidents from people who attend the theatre, cinema, music concerts etc but you do get it with football crowds & they are clearly trying to make that point & tarnish the footballing community!! As you say, incidents are few & far between when you consider the amount of people attending football matches & it is also wrong to tar everyone with the same brush but as with so many things these days, it’s all about viewing figures & if you mention football in a program, people will watch it!! As I’ve said previously, it’s a society thing, the racist comments shouldn’t be made, the tv program makers shouldn’t single it out as a football problem & make all football fans to be a part of the problem but it’s all about ‘hits’ & ‘views’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby kellard hero Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 The only thing with this is the dual standards.They will arrest football supporters for doing this but when it’s ISIS followers spouting their evil on a street corner in a City like London in England nothing will be done to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin phantom Posted November 7, 2017 Admin Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just watched the programme, all the people featured are nothing short of idiots but it' oonly focused on less than 10 people all a bit extreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoons Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just watched this on catch up. Cant believe that 20 minute program ( minus the breaks) took a year of under cover footage to make !!?? Strange program really ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redinthehead Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 hours ago, Bobby kellard hero said: The only thing with this is the dual standards.They will arrest football supporters for doing this but when it’s ISIS followers spouting their evil on a street corner in a City like London in England nothing will be done to them. What a load of nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 7, 2017 Report Share Posted November 7, 2017 11 hours ago, PHILINFRANCE said: Indeed. There are none so blind as those who will not see. John Cleese's Basil Fawlty character (snob/racist) was a similar example. Would add Major Gowen to that- aka Major from Fawlty Towers. Especially when he went on about the cricket game and his turns of phrase to describe people... @Tipps69 Would say the threads on racism show how far we've come in football in many ways. A generation ago it may have been very commonplace- certainly by comparison. About trains generally. Well you will get all sorts of nonsense, or risk thereof anywhere unfortunately. I remember in 2014 on the last train back from Portsmouth to Southampton via train. Anyway was with a big group of mates so no real worries but had I not been there were group of lads- alone, a woman, some other category... They were clearly pissed, swearing and probably would pay not to watch their antics but when one of them tried to hold back a mate to try and make him think he would miss the train at Porchester it was amusing... ...Because he actually did miss it! Had work in the morning too by all accounts and they had to crowdfund him a taxi from next station back to Portchester. Like to think is karma for their general conduct on train! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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