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England can/can England win the World Cup?


South stander

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I am feeling quite positive after all the success the young England teams have had recently.  I really think we are developing a good crop of decent players and given some luck, players in form and limited injuries we can give it a go.  There are still some concerns defensively, but going forward we can do some damage.  If the youngsters continue to get game time for their clubs and continue to develop and stay fit, we could put together a good team.  Seems like Southgate is looking to set a style of play and build it around young enthusiastic players who can play without fear. Our strength will be wing backs, with Walker, Rose, Bertrand and Trippier being a real threat going forward.  If Kane, Rashford, Vardy and Alli can maintain form and not get over tired, they can be a real handful.  In midfield, the options are looking better as the months go on, with Dier looking solid, Loftus-Cheek looking like a star in the making, Winks looking like a quality player and Llalana adding experience.  The goalkeeper and defenders look like a weak link. but Pickford and Butler could be ok as keepers and Stones, Jones and Maguire could do ok.

 

Still early days and plenty of time to go, but seems like the youngsters are coming good and the old guard of Rooney, Cahill and Hart, etc are on the way out.  Still going to be tough to beat Brazil and Germany, but who knows.

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Probably not

 

I'd imagine 60% of those youngsters won't even be in the top leagues if you base it on historical stats for under 17's and under 21's making it. Then the decent ones will be bit parts as instant success is required in the premier league so a ready made import will come in.

 

If I were a betting man most of this crop will amount to little in the future. And why we are still basing our game on power and pace at these levels? The standard of technique was massively below other teams they were playing.

 

For me we are still light years away from producing players with the technique to succeed at the full international level.

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If 'technical' means an ability to pass the ball backwards and sideways 10 yards (ala Henderson) and 'power and pace' equates with being strong on the ball, plus fast, fluid and expansive football with the ability to fire a ball 30 yards forward with precision into space or to feet (ala Germany)  -  then I'll settle for the winning formula of 'power and pace'. 

The problem is we've been trying to play 'technical football' for decades, we're at least 10 years behind the rest who have ditched the technical formula...let's hope we can catch up fast at national level. 

With LJ - and I'm totally gobsmacked to be honest after last season's horror show  - we may just have a manager who understands the way to play the modern game. 

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10 minutes ago, cityexile said:

Yes of course England can win the World Cup.

The real question is when. Not in my lifetime I fear.

We won’t win shit with the likes of Chelsea allowed to do whatever the hell they like with their youngsters or whilst there is so much pressure on PL managers to succeed 

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To win a World Cup you need three things;

1. A system that is well practised and understood. Don't keep chopping and changing.

2. Eight top players that are prepared to run through a brick wall for their manager.

3. At least three world class players that would get into a select World X1. (in '66 we had Banks, Moore, Charlton, and Greaves-at the outset- running through the spine of the team). 

I remember going on an FA coaching course at Cheltenham before the '66 WCup and being told that this was why Alf was so optimistic about our chances.

Well 1. and 2. above are achievable but the problem is where are those world class players coming from?

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England can win the World Cup, but, not with the current people running the FA (and to be unkind to Joe Hart, with JH in goal - I saw him in goal (strangely) recently for WH and he's shocking)

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52 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

If 'technical' means an ability to pass the ball backwards and sideways 10 yards (ala Henderson) and 'power and pace' equates with being strong on the ball, plus fast, fluid and expansive football with the ability to fire a ball 30 yards forward with precision into space or to feet (ala Germany)  -  then I'll settle for the winning formula of 'power and pace'. 

The problem is we've been trying to play 'technical football' for decades, we're at least 10 years behind the rest who have ditched the technical formula...let's hope we can catch up fast at national level. 

With LJ - and I'm totally gobsmacked to be honest after last season's horror show  - we may just have a manager who understands the way to play the modern game. 

Respectfully which of the last 3 World Cup winners have ditched 'technical football'? Germany (they still try and keep the ball) Spain or Italy?

Just because we've never been good at it doesn't mean we never will be. Greece and Portugal have won the Euros in recent times. They were both poor teams a generation ago.

Henderson is utter s**** though!

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Losing to Iceland was a good thing I reckon . It dispelled the myth that sticking all your so called good players together on a pitch makes a good team. This has been the problem with England since after 2002 when we were the 2nd best side at the World Cup, in a team that included heskey and had recently thrashed Germany 1-5.  Since then we have consistently played players who don't play well together and believed this is a solvable issue. The wally with the brolly was almost handed qualification by lampard getting injured and playing gerrard consistently.  we won 3 straight games 3-0 3-1 and 3-1. Whatever you may think of Heskey in those 3 games he was outstanding. Lampard becomes fit again and he drops heskey. Guess what we fail to win and don't qualify. 

No one is ever going to argue that heskey was world class but he did a job for the players around and good strikers loved playing with him. He was part of the best England team of the last 20 years and got consistently slagged by football 'purists', who loved lampard. Personally I think lampard consistently under performed for England and was awful in 06. 

 

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Assuming the key players all stay fit and in form, what would a starting 11 look like?

                        Pickford

      Jones   Stones   Maguire

Walker   Dier  Loftus-Cheek  Rose

   Rashford             Alli

              Kane

 

Vardy, Sterling, Winks, Henderson, Butler, Cahill, Trippier, Bertrand, Llalana, ?, ?

 

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Sadly not though I’d love to see us at least get to the business end of the tournament - that isn’t beyond the realms of possibility.

Love to see those who jump on the bandwagon when we were doing OK then love to stick the boot in when we are down love to have the smiles wiped off their c***y faces.

Whatever happens in Russia, I’ll stick with England just like I stuck with City when we were getting crucified 7-1 at swansea and fair weather fans were nowhere to be found.

Especially glad we are there and the other Home Nations are not.

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1 hour ago, Moor2Sea said:

If 'technical' means an ability to pass the ball backwards and sideways 10 yards (ala Henderson) and 'power and pace' equates with being strong on the ball, plus fast, fluid and expansive football with the ability to fire a ball 30 yards forward with precision into space or to feet (ala Germany)  -  then I'll settle for the winning formula of 'power and pace'. 

The problem is we've been trying to play 'technical football' for decades, we're at least 10 years behind the rest who have ditched the technical formula...let's hope we can catch up fast at national level. 

With LJ - and I'm totally gobsmacked to be honest after last season's horror show  - we may just have a manager who understands the way to play the modern game. 

?? Germany play technical football.

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33 minutes ago, South stander said:

Assuming the key players all stay fit and in form, what would a starting 11 look like?

                        Pickford

      Jones   Stones   Maguire

Walker   Dier  Loftus-Cheek  Rose

   Rashford             Alli

              Kane

 

Vardy, Sterling, Winks, Henderson, Butler, Cahill, Trippier, Bertrand, Llalana, ?, ?

 

Looking at that team has just confirmed my originally planned answer. 

No! 

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56 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Definitely think Pickford looks like an England No. 1 from what I've seen of him.

His distribution is superb and he looks like a solid and agile keeper.

This is a huge myth. Huge. It's because he can kick the ball so far. He has the 2nd worst dist % in the league at 51%! Only Butland has worse. His average length of distribution is huge though. People see a huge punt with his left foot a couple of times a game and think it's amazing. Below is the stat comparison (I think it's missing the last BPL game as they've shut down)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/jordan_pickford/819/819/3783/34/p|premier_league/2017/2018/david_de_gea/819/819/590/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/wayne_hennessey/819/819/3658/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/petr_cech/819/819/27/31/p|premier_league/2017/2018/simon_mignolet/819/819/790/36/p#distribution_accuracy/avg_distribution_length#total

 

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18 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

?? Germany play technical football.

Germany play with pace and power. Good technicians as well but possession means f-all if you don't do something with it. To break down teams you need pace and power, with quick brains and feet.

The 'technical' pedestrian shite we've been watching England play with the likes of Henderson orchestrating it has been gruesome to watch and will win us nothing. 

Think SoD. He was a technical-possession sort of man, clearly recognised as being such a brilliant proponent of that brand of football the FA appointed him after he left us. Aside from Pulis, it was the worst and most ineffective form of football I witnessed at The Gate in 50 years. He always seemed to concentrate on possession stats rather than league tables. Suppose that happens when you become blinded by technical football. 

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1 hour ago, bcfcfinker said:

England can win the World Cup, but, not with the current people running the FA (and to be unkind to Joe Hart, with JH in goal - I saw him in goal (strangely) recently for WH and he's shocking)

You arent being unkind on Hart at all.

How he has played so many times for England is a travesty.

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32 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said:

This is a huge myth. Huge. It's because he can kick the ball so far. He has the 2nd worst dist % in the league at 51%! Only Butland has worse. His average length of distribution is huge though. People see a huge punt with his left foot a couple of times a game and think it's amazing. Below is the stat comparison (I think it's missing the last BPL game as they've shut down)

http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/jordan_pickford/819/819/3783/34/p|premier_league/2017/2018/david_de_gea/819/819/590/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/wayne_hennessey/819/819/3658/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/petr_cech/819/819/27/31/p|premier_league/2017/2018/simon_mignolet/819/819/790/36/p#distribution_accuracy/avg_distribution_length#total

 

I've watched 6/7 of his games for Everton and been extremely impressed with his distribution. You say it's a 'myth' but he can do things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxhJDKJhbAE

There's no way you can do that unless you have fantastic kicking technique. Can we honestly see Frankie Fielding assisting a goal like that? :P

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7 minutes ago, Distortia said:

I've watched 6/7 of his games for Everton and been extremely impressed with his distribution. You say it's a 'myth' but he can do things like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxhJDKJhbAE

There's no way you can do that unless you have fantastic kicking technique. Can we honestly see Frankie Fielding assisting a goal like that? :P

Sorry. I must be blind. I thought I had addressed his huge punt with his left foot! 

That's not the point, is it? If your team only retains possession of the ball 51/100 times you distribute it, that is not good. At all. A few good kicks every few games doesn't mean his distribution is good. If a central midfielder plays a 30 yard pass to a target at a 51% rate, people would say he's not good at long range passing...

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47 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Germany play with pace and power. Good technicians as well but possession means f-all if you don't do something with it. To break down teams you need pace and power, with quick brains and feet.

The 'technical' pedestrian shite we've been watching England play with the likes of Henderson orchestrating it has been gruesome to watch and will win us nothing. 

Think SoD. He was a technical-possession sort of man, clearly recognised as being such a brilliant proponent of that brand of football the FA appointed him after he left us. Aside from Pulis, it was the worst and most ineffective form of football I witnessed at The Gate in 50 years. He always seemed to concentrate on possession stats rather than league tables. Suppose that happens when you become blinded by technical football. 

Germany play technical possession football with often pace and power. Quick brains and feet is being technical. Germanys reserves the other night played at a speed England could not due to not being good technically but very good.

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14 minutes ago, EmersonsRed said:

Sorry. I must be blind. I thought I had addressed his huge punt with his left foot! 

That's not the point, is it? If your team only retains possession of the ball 51/100 times you distribute it, that is not good. At all. A few good kicks every few games doesn't mean his distribution is good. If a central midfielder plays a 30 yard pass to a target at a 51% rate, people would say he's not good at long range passing...

Ok - at its best, his kicking is some of the best in the top flight of English football. But it isn't necessarily consistently at that level. Agree?

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8 hours ago, South stander said:

I am feeling quite positive after all the success the young England teams have had recently.  I really think we are developing a good crop of decent players and given some luck, players in form and limited injuries we can give it a go.  There are still some concerns defensively, but going forward we can do some damage.  If the youngsters continue to get game time for their clubs and continue to develop and stay fit, we could put together a good team.  Seems like Southgate is looking to set a style of play and build it around young enthusiastic players who can play without fear. Our strength will be wing backs, with Walker, Rose, Bertrand and Trippier being a real threat going forward.  If Kane, Rashford, Vardy and Alli can maintain form and not get over tired, they can be a real handful.  In midfield, the options are looking better as the months go on, with Dier looking solid, Loftus-Cheek looking like a star in the making, Winks looking like a quality player and Llalana adding experience.  The goalkeeper and defenders look like a weak link. but Pickford and Butler could be ok as keepers and Stones, Jones and Maguire could do ok.

 

Still early days and plenty of time to go, but seems like the youngsters are coming good and the old guard of Rooney, Cahill and Hart, etc are on the way out.  Still going to be tough to beat Brazil and Germany, but who knows.

I would dearly love to think so but are you really taking the Mickey

 

Screenshot_2017-01-03-20-37-20-3.png

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