Steve Lansdown receives his CBE at Buckingham Palace (Merged)

[Hampshire Red]

How well deserved for a brilliant guy who's drive for success deserves more than this initial award. 

This forum is fit for opinions so only gas and storks (head in sand) can't love and admire what SL has already achieved nationally  and for our Club in particular. 

I hope those 'storks'  from early 2017 (yes, this year! ) come on here today and offer sincere congrats to our owner. 

[Red34]

Very well deserved.

Surprised the Bristol Post haven't covered it?!

[hoxton casual]

Congratulations Steve. Thank you for all you have done for our club and for the City of Bristol. Your lifes work is creating a fantastic legacy.

[Welcome To The Jungle]

48 minutes ago, Hampshire Red said:

How well deserved for a brilliant guy who's drive for success deserves more than this initial award. 

This forum is fit for opinions so only gas and storks (head in sand) can't love and admire what SL has already achieved nationally  and for our Club in particular. 

I hope those 'storks'  from early 2017 (yes, this year! ) come on here today and offer sincere congrats to our owner. 

I'm still here. He dodges tax so still not a fan. He has made billions for himself, however none of this would have been possible without an educated, healthy, safe workforce. None of it would have been possible without infrastructure like transport and utilities. He also has a solid economy and currency on which to base his financial business. I'm sure before he found his wealth he may too have relied on the state for his own health and education, and indeed he may still do so. 

I find it morally wrong that someone can get so rich and yet show complete disregard for the nurses, teachers, police etc who allow his business to function as well as it has done. I know it isn't illegal but it clearly isn't right, especially as if he payed the tax he perhaps should be paying, he'd still have more than enough money that he'd know what to do with. 

I will balance this out by saying he does invest in Bristol, and I assume he is giving to other causes, but for me the scales don't balance. 

I understand that many of you see it as legal and therefore morally fine. I genuinely understand that view and the hate this post will probably receive, but I come down on the other side of the fence where the law does not equal morality and decency in every case.

[phantom]

@Welcome To The Jungle is the CBE actually relevant to how he lives his life now?

I would have thought it was about what he has brought to the City of Bristol over the many years he did live and work in the area - and not based on the short time he has recently moved away?

[redsontour]

10 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I'm still here. He dodges tax so still not a fan. He has made billions for himself, however none of this would have been possible without an educated, healthy, safe workforce. None of it would have been possible without infrastructure like transport and utilities. He also has a solid economy and currency on which to base his financial business. I'm sure before he found his wealth he may too have relied on the state for his own health and education, and indeed he may still do so. 

I find it morally wrong that someone can get so rich and yet show complete disregard for the nurses, teachers, police etc who allow his business to function as well as it has done. I know it isn't illegal but it clearly isn't right, especially as if he payed the tax he perhaps should be paying, he'd still have more than enough money that he'd know what to do with. 

I will balance this out by saying he does invest in Bristol, and I assume he is giving to other causes, but for me the scales don't balance. 

I understand that many of you see it as legal and therefore morally fine. I genuinely understand that view and the hate this post will probably receive, but I come down on the other side of the fence where the law does not equal morality and decency in every case.

The problem here is not one with one persons morals, but another persons politics.

I have no doubt your political beliefs are founded on equality rather than jealousy, but I would suggest your issue here is not that he doesn’t live here & pay tax, but rather that he is astonishingly wealthy. 

 

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Red34 said:

Very well deserved.

Surprised the Bristol Post haven't covered it?!

they won't as it paints us in an good light, 

[Super]

Surely if any of us could pay less tax we would?

[Monkeh]

24 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I'm still here. He dodges tax so still not a fan. He has made billions for himself, however none of this would have been possible without an educated, healthy, safe workforce. None of it would have been possible without infrastructure like transport and utilities. He also has a solid economy and currency on which to base his financial business. I'm sure before he found his wealth he may too have relied on the state for his own health and education, and indeed he may still do so. 

I find it morally wrong that someone can get so rich and yet show complete disregard for the nurses, teachers, police etc who allow his business to function as well as it has done. I know it isn't illegal but it clearly isn't right, especially as if he payed the tax he perhaps should be paying, he'd still have more than enough money that he'd know what to do with. 

I will balance this out by saying he does invest in Bristol, and I assume he is giving to other causes, but for me the scales don't balance. 

I understand that many of you see it as legal and therefore morally fine. I genuinely understand that view and the hate this post will probably receive, but I come down on the other side of the fence where the law does not equal morality and decency in every case.

what about all the tax his employees at HGL pay and the millions in business its brought to our economy 

[SDBS36]

Well done Sir Steve

[CodeRed]

21 minutes ago, Super said:

Surely if any of us could pay less tax we would?

What a depressing and narrow point of view.

We all benefit from the public services (Education, Health, welfare, infrastructure etc etc) paid for by government funding.  The only source of that money is from the taxes paid in by individuals and companies.

Why wouldn't you want to contribute your fair share?

When your granny can't get the care she needs, or a child has to wait for an operation because of funding cuts that's the result of large corporations like Starbucks or wealthy individuals (legally) avoiding tax.

 

 

[CodeRed]

53 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I'm still here. He dodges tax so still not a fan. He has made billions for himself, however none of this would have been possible without an educated, healthy, safe workforce. None of it would have been possible without infrastructure like transport and utilities. He also has a solid economy and currency on which to base his financial business. I'm sure before he found his wealth he may too have relied on the state for his own health and education, and indeed he may still do so. 

I find it morally wrong that someone can get so rich and yet show complete disregard for the nurses, teachers, police etc who allow his business to function as well as it has done. I know it isn't illegal but it clearly isn't right, especially as if he payed the tax he perhaps should be paying, he'd still have more than enough money that he'd know what to do with. 

I will balance this out by saying he does invest in Bristol, and I assume he is giving to other causes, but for me the scales don't balance. 

I understand that many of you see it as legal and therefore morally fine. I genuinely understand that view and the hate this post will probably receive, but I come down on the other side of the fence where the law does not equal morality and decency in every case.

I agree with you. A fair and balanced post.

I appreciate all that SL has done for BCFC, and no doubt he's a decent chap who probably does give to good causes, and I wish him well  , but avoiding UK tax on wealth created in the UK is in my personal view morally wrong

[Super]

15 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

What a depressing and narrow point of view.

We all benefit from the public services (Education, Health, welfare, infrastructure etc etc) paid for by government funding.  The only source of that money is from the taxes paid in by individuals and companies.

Why wouldn't you want to contribute your fair share?

When your granny can't get the care she needs, or a child has to wait for an operation because of funding cuts that's the result of large corporations like Starbucks or wealthy individuals (legally) avoiding tax.

 

 

thanks!

[semblar]

1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I'm still here. He dodges tax so still not a fan. He has made billions for himself, however none of this would have been possible without an educated, healthy, safe workforce. None of it would have been possible without infrastructure like transport and utilities. He also has a solid economy and currency on which to base his financial business. I'm sure before he found his wealth he may too have relied on the state for his own health and education, and indeed he may still do so. 

I find it morally wrong that someone can get so rich and yet show complete disregard for the nurses, teachers, police etc who allow his business to function as well as it has done. I know it isn't illegal but it clearly isn't right, especially as if he payed the tax he perhaps should be paying, he'd still have more than enough money that he'd know what to do with. 

I will balance this out by saying he does invest in Bristol, and I assume he is giving to other causes, but for me the scales don't balance. 

I understand that many of you see it as legal and therefore morally fine. I genuinely understand that view and the hate this post will probably receive, but I come down on the other side of the fence where the law does not equal morality and decency in every case.

So if I move to another "tax jurisdiction" - say Spain - and pay all the taxes that I am liable for in my new home, but come back every now and again to visit my mates, then would I be tax dodging too?  While he was resident in the mainland UK, he will have paid the taxes he was liable for which would therefore have covered his health costs, even for the portion of time when he would have no doubt "gone private". Should he be continuing to pay for healthcare costs when he is not even in the county to receive them? Would you expect to do so if you moved abroad?

You're right that he needed an educated, healthy, safe workforce to make as much as he has... but he created the jobs for them to be a "workforce" in the first place. 

[Monkeh]

1 minute ago, semblar said:

So if I move to another "tax jurisdiction" - say Spain - and pay all the taxes that I am liable for in my new home, but come back every now and again to visit my mates, then would I be tax dodging too?  While he was resident in the mainland UK, he will have paid the taxes he was liable for which would therefore have covered his health costs, even for the portion of time when he would have no doubt "gone private". Should he be continuing to pay for healthcare costs when he is not even in the county to receive them? Would you expect to do so if you moved abroad?

You're right that he needed an educated, healthy, safe workforce to make as much as he has... but he created the jobs for them to be a "workforce" in the first place. 

to be fair he should pay but only when those in Westminster and the other rich and famous do the same

[redsontour]

21 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

 

We all benefit from the public services (Education, Health, welfare, infrastructure etc etc) paid for by government funding.  The only source of that money is from the taxes paid in by individuals and companies.

Why wouldn't you want to contribute your fair share?

 

 

2 Questions regarding how this relates to SL’s residency status...

1) How does he benefit from public services as he doesn’t live in this country?

2) What is a fair share?

[Monkeh]

3 minutes ago, redsontour said:

2 Questions regarding how this relates to SL’s residency status...

1) How does he benefit from public services as he doesn’t live in this country?

2) What is a fair share?

what about all the foreign owners for football clubs in this country?, of foreign shareholders,

How about the big businesses who abuse the tax system, the likes of Facebook, and Starbucks,

What about the banks,

The anger (or disappointment) shouldn't really be aimed at Lansdown it should be aimed at those who've let the loopholes go unpunished for all these years

[Ska Junkie]

Congratulations Mr L and thanks for what you do for our club and city. 

[CodeRed]

5 minutes ago, redsontour said:

2 Questions regarding how this relates to SL’s residency status...

1) How does he benefit from public services as he doesn’t live in this country?

2) What is a fair share?

1) My reply was to Super who said "Surely if any of us could pay less tax we would? " I never said SL benefits from UK public services any more, My point remains that those of us who earn money in the Uk should pay tax in the UK

2) Whatever the democratically elected government set as the current tax rate

In SL's case he earned the money in the UK and continues to receive dividends on his shares. He stated at the time of his relocation that it was to avoid uk taxes.

SL has done nothing wrong, it's perfectly legal, and it's his personal choice where he lives.  My point is simply that every time an individual does this, or a large corporation like Starbucks routes it's profit through somewhere like the Caymen Islands it increases the tax burden for those that are in the UK - some of whom are on low incomes and can less afford it.

[Monkeh]

2 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

1) My reply was to Super who said "Surely if any of us could pay less tax we would? " I never said SL benefits from UK public services any more, My point remains that those of us who earn money in the Uk should pay tax in the UK

2) Whatever the democratically elected government set as the current tax rate

In SL's case he earned the money in the UK and continues to receive dividends on his shares. He stated at the time of his relocation that it was to avoid uk taxes.

SL has done nothing wrong, it's perfectly legal, and it's his personal choice where he lives.  My point is simply that every time an individual does this, or a large corporation like Starbucks routes it's profit through somewhere like the Caymen Islands it increases the tax burden for those that are in the UK - some of whom are on low incomes and can less afford it.

then the government should do something about it rather then all the hot air it continues to produce so they or the lords can continue to take advantage of it 

[redsontour]

13 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

what about all the foreign owners for football clubs in this country?, of foreign shareholders,

How about the big businesses who abuse the tax system, the likes of Facebook, and Starbucks,

What about the banks,

The anger (or disappointment) shouldn't really be aimed at Lansdown it should be aimed at those who've let the loopholes go unpunished for all these years

Actually, I disagree there too!

Of course, legislators are responsible for setting the rules, but you can’t pin all the “blame” on the legislators if it is commonly known that there are holes because if no one took advantage of them they wouldn’t matter! 

That’s like saying you blame the shopkeeper when someone steals something from the tillcause they should have made the toll more secure.

my questions relate not to a fair tax system, but rather to why certain posters seem to suggest that SL does not and has not paid his fair share?

[CodeRed]

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

then the government should do something about it rather then all the hot air it continues to produce so they or the lords can continue to take advantage of it 

Agreed, the government should close the loopholes, they won't though because those doing it are usually major donators to the Tory party.

 

[Fiale]

2 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

I'm still here. He dodges tax so still not a fan. He has made billions for himself, however none of this would have been possible without an educated, healthy, safe workforce. None of it would have been possible without infrastructure like transport and utilities. He also has a solid economy and currency on which to base his financial business. I'm sure before he found his wealth he may too have relied on the state for his own health and education, and indeed he may still do so. 

I find it morally wrong that someone can get so rich and yet show complete disregard for the nurses, teachers, police etc who allow his business to function as well as it has done. I know it isn't illegal but it clearly isn't right, especially as if he payed the tax he perhaps should be paying, he'd still have more than enough money that he'd know what to do with. 

I will balance this out by saying he does invest in Bristol, and I assume he is giving to other causes, but for me the scales don't balance. 

I understand that many of you see it as legal and therefore morally fine. I genuinely understand that view and the hate this post will probably receive, but I come down on the other side of the fence where the law does not equal morality and decency in every case.

 

He, his company and employees have contributed millions (possibly hundreds of millions) of tax / NI over the years - if your so keen on extra money going to these services what have you done to increase your tax payments / taxable income or do you just have a standard job and moan at others who have contributed more to the system than you could probably do in a dozen or more lifetimes.

[tinman-is-god]

I was there! My mum was getting an MBE for services to Nursing and as I was reading the programme I saw his name on there to receive his CBE! Saw him in person, shook his hand and thanked him for the service to the club and Jon was a delight too, thanking me on twitter for the congratulations! Was a great day and was surreal to see Steve get his CBE from the Queen, was not expecting to see that when I went in to the Palace! He looked incredibly proud, and rightly so, speaking to the Queen for a couple of minutes as he was given the CBE.

Also saw Mo Farah get knighted but that was nowhere near as good as seeing Steve get the CBE!

[Ohbasso]

I’d understand people moaning about Steve’s tax situation if he just registered his business in Guernsey but was still based in England (see Dwayne Sports) but the guy actually lives in Guernsey so it’s not just him exposing a loophole he’s actually moved house.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, tinman-is-god said:

I was there! My mum was getting an MBE for services to Nursing and as I was reading the programme I saw his name on there to receive his CBE! Saw him in person, shook his hand and thanked him for the service to the club and Jon was a delight too, thanking me on twitter for the congratulations! Was a great day and was surreal to see Steve get his CBE from the Queen, was not expecting to see that when I went in to the Palace! He looked incredibly proud, and rightly so, speaking to the Queen for a couple of minutes as he was given the CBE.

Also saw Mo Farah get knighted but that was nowhere near as good as seeing Steve get the CBE!

Congratulations to mum! I bet that was a good day out!!! 

 

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, Red34 said:

Very well deserved.

Surprised the Bristol Post haven't covered it?!

They will - now there's a thread about it!

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, tinman-is-god said:

I was there! My mum was getting an MBE for services to Nursing and as I was reading the programme I saw his name on there to receive his CBE! Saw him in person, shook his hand and thanked him for the service to the club and Jon was a delight too, thanking me on twitter for the congratulations! Was a great day and was surreal to see Steve get his CBE from the Queen, was not expecting to see that when I went in to the Palace! He looked incredibly proud, and rightly so, speaking to the Queen for a couple of minutes as he was given the CBE.

Also saw Mo Farah get knighted but that was nowhere near as good as seeing Steve get the CBE!

Probably suggesting she moves some of her offshore investments into Hargreaves Lansdown funds  and that he could do a deal on the fees!

[wendyredredrobin]

I'm sure that most of us would like to reduce our tax bill and there are both legal and illegal methods just as there are moral and immoral ways.

For most of us, moving to Guernsey is not an option, but Steve's tax bill would run into millions if he stayed in the UK, so can you blame him for preferring to spend the tax saved on BCFC rather than the NHS?  There are many different ways you can look at these things.

The gov''t could easily say that dividends generated in the UK should be taxed in the UK, but that would discourage a lot of beneficial foreign investment.

I have to honestly say that if I had that much wealth, I would probably do the same.

[tinman-is-god]

25 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Probably suggesting she moves some of her offshore investments into Hargreaves Lansdown funds  and that he could do a deal on the fees!

I couldn't possibly comment! If anything it should be her advising him of tax advice given recent news...