Jump to content
IGNORED

Wales you had fun,your manager is off to Sunderland


Never to the dark side

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

What an awful appointment. No idea how they stay up under him.

They won't.

3 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I have absolutely no idea why Coleman would want that job!  They'll still be relegated, and then that is his reputation in tatters.

They will be and it won't be; nobody expects him to keep them up except the Sunderland board who continue to make awful decisions but they are in some sort of Wearside bubble; when you leave it life returns to normal and you buy yourself a new Paul Smith suit, new Rangey and walk into West Ham.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I suspect Coleman knows that Wales' run to the semi finals of Euro 16 was a fluke, carried by one man. That's evidenced by them failing to escape or even finish second in a group which was unchallenging at world level.

His stock can only go down from here. With that in mind, it's interesting to see that his stock is only as high as a basket case of a club. Prepared to be wrong, but seems that can only end badly...

A Fluke? Really....I cannot see how any team getting to the semi final  of a major international tournament can be deemed lucky 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, reddogkev said:

I have absolutely no idea why Coleman would want that job!  They'll still be relegated, and then that is his reputation in tatters.

Seven hundred and fifty thousand reasons a year perhaps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a large part of what happens next at Sunderland will depend on the owners, they gave Grayson very little money to spend, has Coleman gone there on the proviso that he’s going to have a war chest to spend?

And even if Coleman does get a load to spend, who in their right mind would join a club in such a position? How many of Coleman’s ‘Welsh’ lot would he be able to entice to the bottom of The Championship? Adam Matthews might be alright but apart from that, who?

It just seems like a very strange appointment all ways round, no evidence of money to spend, little evidence of Coleman being able to do any better than Grayson. My guess is that the next 6 months will single out how Sunderland’s & Coleman’s future’s will be but I’m not holding out a lot of hope for either!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

A Fluke? Really....I cannot see how any team getting to the semi final  of a major international tournament can be deemed lucky 

Greece 2004?

South Korea 2002?

Thats just off the top of my head. Those teams showed no signs of repeating the feat and nor did Wales. Without Bale, as the qualifiers proved, they're more than ordinary and Coleman doesn't have the tactical nouse to change that. Better to leave a hero and take the cash from Sunderland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I spoke to several people when I was up in Sunderland for our game and they all believed Grayson had only another two games, the first of which was ours. After that they all said their owner wanted to get either an ex player of theirs (cant remember who) or current player coming to the end of his playing days. They were convinced this was going to happen even though neither had experience. Perhaps Coleman will cultivate this way of thinking ?

 They will be quite surprised about this I think, although it's a 'name' for them. My impression was that they though Grayson wasn't a big enough name, he had success but after having some of the managers they have had in the past he wasn't impressive. They were great fans, lovely people, but totally unrealistic to the postistion they are in and who they could attract I thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

People saying that Coleman has done a great job for Wales, reminds me of the myth that DC is doing a great job at Rovers. 

Getting a country the size of Wales to the semi finals of a European Championships is objectively "doing a great job", not sure how you could argue otherwise. 

That being said, I don't think he'll do well at Sunderland and I've no idea why he'd even consider the job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Greece 2004?

South Korea 2002?

Thats just off the top of my head. Those teams showed no signs of repeating the feat and nor did Wales. Without Bale, as the qualifiers proved, they're more than ordinary and Coleman doesn't have the tactical nouse to change that. Better to leave a hero and take the cash from Sunderland.

They finished 3rd in a group of six having lost once in 10 matches. Largely achieved without their best player as you point out. By population, Wales was the smallest country in that group.

A far from disgraceful performance - which appeared more disappointing because of their exceptional performance at the Euros.

Coleman did a great job with Wales and I don't know why it seems so hard for people to acknowledge that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

People saying that Coleman has done a great job for Wales, reminds me of the myth that DC is doing a great job at Rovers. 

One star player had been the main stay of their success, now neither have either of those to rely on! 

Coleman got a country of 3 million people to a Euros semi final, beating Belgium twice along the way. Which part of that is a "myth" exactly?

And let's not pretend that DC didn't achieve consecutive promotions with Rovers, which is an impressive achievement even if it did come off the back of a relegation (which wasn't entirely his fault). They're in a better position now than they were when he joined. That's not a myth either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Surprised by the harsh assessment of Coleman on here. Getting Wales to a semi-final was a massive achievement and I don't agree it was solely down to Bale. They looked far more of a cohesive team than England did despite our superior individuals. While we were losing to Iceland they were beating Belgium - who they also beat in the qualifiers. Their World Cup qualification campaign was a failure, but a narrow failure and hardly a disgrace.

Sure, his club record is no great shakes but would it kill people to give the guy a bit of credit?

They had all the luck going in the Euros, beating a Russia side that gave up because they were virtually out, were totally outplayed by Slovakia before the Belgium game, where the British media always conveniently fail to mention that Belgium were missing 3 of their usual back four.

Coleman is a mediocre manager who has bluffed it on the back of a World class player in Bale & a very good one in Ramsey, plus an aggressive policy of stealing English born players, as Ireland did in the 80s/90s.

More convinced they'll go down now than if Grayson was given more time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

They had all the luck going in the Euros, beating a Russia side that gave up because they were virtually out, were totally outplayed by Slovakia before the Belgium game, where the British media always conveniently fail to mention that Belgium were missing 3 of their usual back four.

Coleman is a mediocre manager who has bluffed it on the back of a World class player in Bale & a very good one in Ramsey, plus an aggressive policy of stealing English born players, as Ireland did in the 80s/90s.

More convinced they'll go down now than if Grayson was given more time.

Still a very harsh assessment. Luck alone doesn't qualify a team and get them to a semi final. Everyone talks fondly about England's team in Euro 96 but they won 2 matches out of 5 and had a bit of luck themselves.

The previous generation had a world class player in Giggs as well as some half-decent ones like Bellamy and Speed. They achieved nothing.

Coleman deserves credit for what he has done with that team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst it's acknowledged that Sunderland are indeed a basket-case, I'm still surprised to see how poorly they are doing. 

Any team with Billy Jones, Paddy McNair, Lee Cattermole, Duncan Watmore, Callum McManaman, Aiden McGeady & Lewis Grabban in it you'd think is a pretty good starting point for a Championship team. 

Throw in Jack Rodwell, Bryan Oviedo, John O'Shea, Darron Gibson, Brendon Galloway and you seemingly have a squad, that whilst it has some who are a bit past it, should still be good enough at this level. 

From the outside looking in, you'd think it wouldn't take much to get that group of players performing well enough to avoid relegation, but clearly there is something putrid within that club that is holding that back. 

Whether Coleman is capable of forging the necessary siege mentality they'll need remains to be seen, but that's what it will take - mentality. I'd imagine there are a few too many 'soft' characters that'll need a stern lesson or two in resilience. 

From Coleman's previous managerial posts I would liken this to when he took over Coventry. A club in decline but still with a decent enough squad of players to compete at this level. He failed to turn around that decline there, so he's got a lot to prove with Sunderland I'd say. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, El Hombrecito said:

Getting a country the size of Wales to the semi finals of a European Championships is objectively "doing a great job", not sure how you could argue otherwise. 

That being said, I don't think he'll do well at Sunderland and I've no idea why he'd even consider the job.

Getting Wales to the Semi’s was outstanding, indeed! 

They have now reverted to type and will be doing their usual thing during the summer of a major tournament. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have never rated Coleman and a bit of success at international level is quite different to successfully managing a league club.

If he turns Sunderland round significantly I may need to revise my view, but I really doubt that will happen.

Grayson is a much better manager imo., and was a far better bet to revitalise Sunderland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Coleman got a country of 3 million people to a Euros semi final, beating Belgium twice along the way. Which part of that is a "myth" exactly?

And let's not pretend that DC didn't achieve consecutive promotions with Rovers, which is an impressive achievement even if it did come off the back of a relegation (which wasn't entirely his fault). They're in a better position now than they were when he joined. That's not a myth either.

I didn’t say that Coleman’s achievement of reaching the Semi’s was a myth. Big credit for that. Largely down to GB. Since then they have reverted to type and failed. Again. 

DC has indeed achieved 2 promotions, but at what level..? Don’t get me wrong, he’s done ok and any success does still have to be achieved, but getting a team up from non league (where they actually were a big club, for once) by the skin of their teeth and then the following promotion from L2 was massively down to the goals of MT. Since he left them, their form has not been anything “great”.

My post actually said that both managers achievements were heavily down to the contribution of one player in each team. 

Coleman now won’t have Bale to carry him and DC no longer has Taylor’s goals. DC deserves credit for getting Rovers back to where they probably belong, but they are under performing at that level. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Harry said:

Whilst it's acknowledged that Sunderland are indeed a basket-case, I'm still surprised to see how poorly they are doing.

From the outside looking in, you'd think it wouldn't take much to get that group of players performing well enough to avoid relegation, but clearly there is something putrid within that club that is holding that back. 

Leaving Coleman to one side think this is the crux of the matter, mate.

Saw an article recently which said for a number of prominent managers, (it definitely mentioned Martin O'Neill & Steve Bruce amongst others), Sunderland was the only failure on their CV. You can now add Simon Grayson to that list.

It has to be the club and what goes on there as much as the manager, therefore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, The Bard said:

There were 24 teams at the Euros out of 52 European sides.basically a 1 in 2 chance of qualifying.  For the world cup 13 sides out of 52 qualified.  1 in 4.  He didn't manage this and didn't really get close.  Given he had one world class player plus a couple of excellent ones, I think that is disappointing.  O'Neill's achievements have been far more impressive.

That Wales team was a championship team at best plus Bale and Ramsey. To make the semi finals with that squad is an exceptional achievement. There is no way you would’ve called them getting to the semis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Keyardiv said:

Really, I would say Ramsey and Allen were our best players at the Euros.

Even with Bale, you still have to defend. In qualifying we conceded 4 goals in 10 games. Belgium managed 1 goal against us in 3 games and that was a worldie.

He's obviously a key player but I don't think you can call ita fluke when we won 4 games at the tournament. I think it showed how bang average most international teams are, including us. 

 

 

Serious question; are you generally happy Coleman`s left or would you rather he had stayed on?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not sure I’ve ever seen worse goalkeeping from both keepers with all four goals a complete joke from a goalkeeping perspective

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11132766/sunderland-2-2-millwall

And people moan about Frankie! I heard on Sky they were awful mistakes but didn`t realise how awful!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...