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That little bit of luck...


spudski

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....anyone else thinking Injuries could be the turning point in our season?

With Pisano, Diediou, GoN, Hegeler out for pretty much the rest of the season, Duric being smothered in Cotton wool, Bryan playing injured, various others playing with niggles, some trying to regain fitness and form after coming back ( Pato, Smith )....and the cold winter months upon us, as well as playing a fast high pressing game ( which is tough on the hamstrings )....I can see our season being derailed by Injuries....Luck and physical man management skills come to the fore now.

Fingers crossed, we've got enough strength in depth, and we don't get many more. Plus a few new recruits in January.

It's going to be a long old winter...

Hopefully we continue plodding along and can make the play offs.

However...without sounding defeatist, if you said to me, we could finish mid table and get into the last 8 of the League Cup, with some Prem scalps along the way, I'd have snatched your hand off.

It's been a fantastic ride so far this season....

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14 minutes ago, spudski said:

....anyone else thinking Injuries could be the turning point in our season?

With Pisano, Diediou, GoN, Hegeler out for pretty much the rest of the season, Duric being smothered in Cotton wool, Bryan playing injured, various others playing with niggles, some trying to regain fitness and form after coming back ( Pato, Smith )....and the cold winter months upon us, as well as playing a fast high pressing game ( which is tough on the hamstrings )....I can see our season being derailed by Injuries....Luck and physical man management skills come to the fore now.

GoN and Hegeler and fringe players at best and I don't think we miss either. There's a fair chance both may have played their last games for the club in fact. 

Pisano and Diedhiou are loses for sure but frankly our squad overall is a very good one in terms of strength and depth and overall quality. LJ has already hinted at a right back loanee arriving in January so there's possibly only half a dozen or so games to wait until that problem is solved, though in the meantime Korey did a very good job in that position at Wednesday and Wright is adequate too. 

All clubs suffer with injuries, just look at PNE the last month or two. Just something we have to deal with. I don't think we've got it worse than any other club so can't use it as an excuse on this occasion.

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What doesn't help the depth of the squad on top of the injuries is the expensive looking development players that havnt and don't look like developing Engvall , Taylor Moore and the fact that there appear to be a few that Lee doesn't appear to totally trust or want to play a prominent role Vyner (atm) HM , and to some degrees Leko, Woodrow and Taylor

All may be good reasoned judgements but suggests that there is some more transition needed in the squad yet

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4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

GoN and Hegeler and fringe players at best and I don't think we miss either. There's a fair chance both may have played their last games for the club in fact. 

Pisano and Diedhiou are loses for sure but frankly our squad overall is a very good one in terms of strength and depth and overall quality. LJ has already hinted at a right back loanee arriving in January so there's possibly only half a dozen or so games to wait until that problem is solved, though in the meantime Korey did a very good job in that position at Wednesday and Wright is adequate too. 

All clubs suffer with injuries, just look at PNE the last month or two. Just something we have to deal with. I don't think we've got it worse than any other club so can't use it as an excuse on this occasion.

No excuses mate...but injuries can make or break a season, regardless of how strong our squad is. Plus you have to have all the uninjured squad players, playing to the best of their ability. Failure to do that and you end up losing games.

Take into consideration the transition period as well for players...Brownhill, Odowda, Patto from last season to this are much better players.

I think this is also happening at various degrees of transition and development, for many of our players... Taylor Moore, Engval as BBSB mentioned...as well as Taylor, Woodrow, Elliason, Leko, Vyner, Kelly etc. Which could see them better next season.

I agree, every club has to deal with it, but it does effect results, you only have to look at Preston...first win in how many games?

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10 minutes ago, spudski said:

No excuses mate...but injuries can make or break a season, regardless of how strong our squad is. Plus you have to have all the uninjured squad players, playing to the best of their ability. Failure to do that and you end up losing games.

Take into consideration the transition period as well for players...Brownhill, Odowda, Patto from last season to this are much better players.

I think this is also happening at various degrees of transition and development, for many of our players... Taylor Moore, Engval as BBSB mentioned...as well as Taylor, Woodrow, Elliason, Leko, Vyner, Kelly etc. Which could see them better next season.

I agree, every club has to deal with it, but it does effect results, you only have to look at Preston...first win in how many games?

agree, honestly think next season will be the one we really come into our own.

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Nothing to do with luck last night. IMHO Joe, Duric, Patto, were not fit to start. Mags, Taylor and either Leko or Eliason fit and starting would have allowed options from the bench in the 2nd half.

Leaving Bobby up front on his own was at best baffling as he is clearly not that player. 

Once again IMHO our midfield looks better with Pack as Korey and Brownhill good players but very similar without the range of passing or defensive heading ability that Pack has. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

....anyone else thinking Injuries could be the turning point in our season?

With Pisano, Diediou, GoN, Hegeler out for pretty much the rest of the season, Duric being smothered in Cotton wool, Bryan playing injured, various others playing with niggles, some trying to regain fitness and form after coming back ( Pato, Smith )....and the cold winter months upon us, as well as playing a fast high pressing game ( which is tough on the hamstrings )....I can see our season being derailed by Injuries....Luck and physical man management skills come to the fore now.

Fingers crossed, we've got enough strength in depth, and we don't get many more. Plus a few new recruits in January.

It's going to be a long old winter...

Hopefully we continue plodding along and can make the play offs.

However...without sounding defeatist, if you said to me, we could finish mid table and get into the last 8 of the League Cup, with some Prem scalps along the way, I'd have snatched your hand off.

It's been a fantastic ride so far this season....

My problem is two fold  firstly lack of midfield options, GON and Hegeler are not up to it and we knew that last season, Smith was not fully fit until 5/6 games into the season and with Pack it depends very much what Pack turns up for any given game. We need probably 2 midfielders one to give us more creativity and a reliable back up.

But more importantly our lack of right back cover is a criminal oversight.

I really like ODowda I can now see what was seen in him by LJ and his all round game is improving especially the defensive side of his game, but Patterson for me offers little other than the odd flash of brilliance and if this doesn't come off then he can be a passenger especially defensively, I am not expecting my view on Patterson will be a popular one but it's my honest opinion, perhaps luxury player best describes him for me.

Having said all of that, I was certainly not expecting the sort of improvement that we have witnessed this season, it has been truly impressive and we look like a proper team who can hold their own in the championship, my only minor gripes play wise is occasionally we over complicate our play in not only good attacking positions but also in dangerous defensive positions and our free kicks are abysmal and maybe last night was a time when LJ could have taken some of the responsibility  for last nights result, after all he selected the team and formulated the tactics.

 

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3 hours ago, aa_bcfc said:

Nothing to do with luck last night. IMHO Joe, Duric, Patto, were not fit to start. Mags, Taylor and either Leko or Eliason fit and starting would have allowed options from the bench in the 2nd half.

Leaving Bobby up front on his own was at best baffling as he is clearly not that player. 

Once again IMHO our midfield looks better with Pack as Korey and Brownhill good players but very similar without the range of passing or defensive heading ability that Pack has. 

Quality play making midfielder required-wether that January window is the best time to bring 'him in I'm not sure...what I am sure of is its a must before next season if we're to progress.

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6 hours ago, Shtanley said:

I really do think that the return of Diedhiou and Pisano in January will be massive. We miss Diedhiou upfront as he can do the hold up play and also get in behind. 

Sadly I don't think you will see either in January

Hope I'm wrong but March or later is more the timeline 

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3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I don't think we lacked work rate. I can't think of one player that didn't seem to be trying as hard as ever.

I agree what we lacked was energy, creativity and a plan B and sadly a couple of players did not fair very well with Preston's physicality in short they were bullied and we lacked 11 fit starting players.

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7 hours ago, spudski said:

....anyone else thinking Injuries could be the turning point in our season?

With Pisano, Diediou, GoN, Hegeler out for pretty much the rest of the season, Duric being smothered in Cotton wool, Bryan playing injured, various others playing with niggles, some trying to regain fitness and form after coming back ( Pato, Smith )....and the cold winter months upon us, as well as playing a fast high pressing game ( which is tough on the hamstrings )....I can see our season being derailed by Injuries....Luck and physical man management skills come to the fore now.

# Fingers crossed #  we've got enough strength in depth, and we don't get many more. Plus a few new recruits in January.

It's going to be a long old winter...

Hopefully we continue plodding along and can make the play offs.

However...without sounding defeatist, if you said to me, we could finish mid table and get into the last 8 of the League Cup, with some Prem scalps along the way, I'd have snatched your hand off.

It's been a fantastic ride so far this season....

# ... Fingers Crossed ... #

Wish you hadn't said that.... now I'm worried incase Frankie and co have goalkeeping mishaps.. hope not :fingerscrossed:

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12 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Agree. Also I think we struggled to pass against their 3 man midfield. A bit like Brentford away, Leeds at home, Millwall. There have been quite a few games where we have struggled to keep the ball against teams that outnumber us in midfield. When we manage to do it well, we do it brilliantly, but not last night. I think our lack of pace in behind makes it even harder to build attacks, as teams can squeeze up and make it even more compact. We need to start going 4-3-3 imo.

The problem started because Preston's front 2 did to us what we did to Wednesday, they chased and harried our back 4 for all of the first half, that forced our midfield back to help our back 4 out with an outlet allowing Preston's midfield to step up, sadly our midfield then kept giving it back to the back 4 who got pissed off and started to launch long aimless balls forward. Pack's introduction gave us a little more steel in midfield but he was as poor as the rest on the night.

We have pace out wide where it should count but for some unknown reason until the final 20 minutes ODowda and Eliasson were constantly ignored because we tried to play it through the middle.

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Diedhiou aside I actually thought last night's starting line up is our strongest.

People talk about Pisano but he's only started 6 of our league games, so hardly ever been a first choice.

Get the point about us having to rotate a smaller number of players but we still haven't used Lloyd Kelly in the league plus as has already been mentioned, we chose to loan out Moore & Hinds..

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5 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Agree. Also I think we struggled to pass against their 3 man midfield. A bit like Brentford away, Leeds at home, Millwall. There have been quite a few games where we have struggled to keep the ball against teams that outnumber us in midfield. When we manage to do it well, we do it brilliantly, but not last night. I think our lack of pace in behind makes it even harder to build attacks, as teams can squeeze up and make it even more compact. We need to start going 4-3-3 imo.

I'd be tempted to play...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fielding-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wright-----------------------------Flint=============================Baker-----------------------------------Mags

------------------------Odowda----------------------------------Brownhill------------------------------------Bryan--------------------------

--------------------------------------------Reid-----------------------------------------------------Taylor-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Duric---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solid back four...plenty of movement, speed and energy in the middle. Solid front man....and with Reid and Taylor, feeding off Duric and complimenting the midfield energy.

We've played best when playing with speed, and breaking through the lines this season.

Pack and Smith slow things down too often for me....even when there is a pass on. Often this leads to any advantage being lost and the opposition regrouping.

I love it when we play fast and break through the lines with energy and accurate passing. Plenty of movement in that team as well.

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1 minute ago, GrahamC said:

Diedhiou aside I actually thought last night's starting line up is our strongest.

People talk about Pisano but he's only started 6 of our league games, so hardly ever been a first choice.

Get the point about us having to rotate a smaller number of players but we still haven't used Lloyd Kelly in the league plus as has already been mentioned, we chose to loan out Moore & Hinds..

You might be right had all 11 been fit and clearly they were not, mind you I don't see Patterson in our strongest 11.

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6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I'd be tempted to play...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fielding-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wright-----------------------------Flint=============================Baker-----------------------------------Mags

------------------------Odowda----------------------------------Brownhill------------------------------------Bryan--------------------------

--------------------------------------------Reid-----------------------------------------------------Taylor-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Duric---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solid back four...plenty of movement, speed and energy in the middle. Solid front man....and with Reid and Taylor, feeding off Duric and complimenting the midfield energy.

We've played best when playing with speed, and breaking through the lines this season.

Pack and Smith slow things down too often for me....even when there is a pass on. Often this leads to any advantage being lost and the opposition regrouping.

I love it when we play fast and break through the lines with energy and accurate passing. Plenty of movement in that team as well.

You are having a laugh, last night Brownhill looked like a boy playing in his first mans game, he was bullied all night, he is a huge talent but there is no way he is ready to anchor a championship midfield.

You really do not like Smith, he has been our most consistent player this season and especially in the past 2 months.

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43 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I don't think we lacked work rate. I can't think of one player that didn't seem to be trying as hard as ever.

Really ? All of them seemed of the pace and lacked that extra 10% from bobby Reid to frank fielding.

Game of opinions though! 

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4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

You are having a laugh, last night Brownhill looked like a boy playing in his first mans game, he was bullied all night, he is a huge talent but there is no way he is ready to anchor a championship midfield.

You really do not like Smith, he has been our most consistent player this season and especially in the past 2 months.

Yep....I agree...Smith does play like an Anchor ;-)

Nothing to do with liking players...I just feel he doesn't suit our style of play, which is high in energy, high pressing and quick passing.

He is inconsistent...so we will have to disagree...if he did everything I mentioned, then he'd be a good addition...but what he offers defensively, he loses when being too slow to move and pass...he slows moves down all the time. And his positioning last night was dire.

Brownhill plays better in the middle when he has energy around him.

Game of opinions...we will have to agree to disagree re Smith.

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4 minutes ago, spudski said:

Yep....I agree...Smith does play like an Anchor ;-)

Nothing to do with liking players...I just feel he doesn't suit our style of play, which is high in energy, high pressing and quick passing.

He is inconsistent...so we will have to disagree...if he did everything I mentioned, then he'd be a good addition...but what he offers defensively, he loses when being too slow to move and pass...he slows moves down all the time. And his positioning last night was dire.

Brownhill plays better in the middle when he has energy around him.

Game of opinions...we will have to agree to disagree re Smith.

Before last night name the last time Smith had a poor game?.

And that energy around him will give him muscles?.

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15 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Before last night name the last time Smith had a poor game?.

He's had loads mate...played well at Fulham, but imo, he's too indecisive, slows our play down, and always er's on the side of caution. Too many backward and sideways moves, when there is a very decent chance to break through the lines and still be in position to cover if we lose the ball.

As for muscles...Smith doesn't tackle or use his body to out muscle players. He shadows and follows and tracks...but often gives way too much space.

I've used the phrase before...he's like a Jack Russell on a leash....snapping at you, but he never actually gets to you...or very rarely.

I disagree with what you say about Brownhill...him and Odowda have been excellent this season.

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I think we need to approach the Hull game as Preston did at ours. Strong at the back but capable of getting forward quick. 

Bryan won't be fit so Magnússon may come back or we may go 3-5-2. Up front is a concern as Taylor away has been fairly ineffective and Woodrow hasn't been great either. 

I'd have O'dowda, Pack, Brownhill, Smith and Ellison. Then Reid and Leko given free roles up too to cause problems with pace.  Leko can't defend at all so playing up top and allowing him to roam is the best I think. I suspect Woodrow may get a chance though. 

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1 hour ago, spudski said:

I'd be tempted to play...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fielding-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wright-----------------------------Flint=============================Baker-----------------------------------Mags

------------------------Odowda----------------------------------Brownhill------------------------------------Bryan--------------------------

--------------------------------------------Reid-----------------------------------------------------Taylor-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Duric---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solid back four...plenty of movement, speed and energy in the middle. Solid front man....and with Reid and Taylor, feeding off Duric and complimenting the midfield energy.

We've played best when playing with speed, and breaking through the lines this season.

Pack and Smith slow things down too often for me....even when there is a pass on. Often this leads to any advantage being lost and the opposition regrouping.

I love it when we play fast and break through the lines with energy and accurate passing. Plenty of movement in that team as well.

Very little defensive cover there from the midfield.

Going forward yes, fine but against quite a few teams in this league they would be on top of the back 4 in an instant.

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8 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Very little defensive cover there from the midfield.

Going forward yes, fine but against quite a few teams in this league they would be on top of the back 4 in an instant.

Don't you think Brownhill and Bryan have defensive qualities as well as offensive?

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10 hours ago, spudski said:

....anyone else thinking Injuries could be the turning point in our season?

With Pisano, Diediou, GoN, Hegeler out for pretty much the rest of the season, Duric being smothered in Cotton wool, Bryan playing injured, various others playing with niggles, some trying to regain fitness and form after coming back ( Pato, Smith )....and the cold winter months upon us, as well as playing a fast high pressing game ( which is tough on the hamstrings )....I can see our season being derailed by Injuries....Luck and physical man management skills come to the fore now.

Fingers crossed, we've got enough strength in depth, and we don't get many more. Plus a few new recruits in January.

It's going to be a long old winter...

Hopefully we continue plodding along and can make the play offs.

However...without sounding defeatist, if you said to me, we could finish mid table and get into the last 8 of the League Cup, with some Prem scalps along the way, I'd have snatched your hand off.

It's been a fantastic ride so far this season....

Just a couple of wins before the new year will leave us in the top ten.

Things might be better with a Win at Hull. Being anywhere the top is a bonus. For sure with the injures Lansdown will want to keep the season going!!!

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11 minutes ago, spudski said:

Don't you think Brownhill and Bryan have defensive qualities as well as offensive?

Tend to agree with @ScottishRed spud. Going forward would it be more of a 4141 ? Would be worried we'd get caught on the counter too easily with those players in that  formation. I do agree though that for us to push on we do need more quality in CM , Korey is way to hesitant on the ball.

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