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6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

So, is it really inconceivable that football just doesn’t have any noteworthy number of gay players..? So why this big campaign to hunt them down and then make them come out..?! 

 

I don't see it as a campaign to make them come out....  I think you'll find it's more of a campaign to make them feel comfortable coming out if they so wish.  Unfortunately we see some reactions here that are the reason they may feel uneasy do so.  

It's about giving any gay footballer, or even football fan, a choice about whether they want to come out,. The impression is that the historic homophobic views of some end up making some feel that they have no option to be open about their sexuality for fear of abuse.  

People getting worked up over such a campaign kinda show why there is a need for it in the first place.

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6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

So you believe that only 1.5% of men at the local dance school or amature dramatic club would be gay..?

Haha. Bar BS3, you seem to have let the widely portrayed stereotype of gays in the media cloud your judgement here. 

I would suggest that the number of gay people involved in football would be similar to the national average. Why wouldn't it be? Sexuality is just that. It doesn't necessarily define a persons behaviour or careeer interests (although sometimes it does).

Either way, you are right that it's nobody's business.

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6 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

I shall elaborate and reiterate my conclusions....!

If there are, say, 2,500 professional footballers in England. (Approx 25 x 92 & round it up) 

That would mean that, by national statistics, there COULD be 37 ish gay players. 

Now, are you telling me that Prime time TV on a Saturday night couldn’t easily account for those 37 ish gay individuals above the national ratio..?

So, is it really inconceivable that football just doesn’t have any noteworthy number of gay players..? So why this big campaign to hunt them down and then make them come out..?! 

 

Do you think football is an environment where gay footballers (And they have, do and will exist) can bring there husbands/partners to the Christmas party or other events or feel free to talk about them or include them in everyday life? 

To say 'they can if they want, I don't mind' completely misses the point that they obviously feel they can't. 

If someone didn't feel welcome in your house because they thought you didnt lije them, would you stubbornly sit there and say 'well the doors open do what you want or would you reassure them and try to make them feel welcome?

I really don't think it's the problem you make it out to be.

I'd be more concerned with the foreign tv rights deal issues at present.

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I really don’t get the media’s obsession with a player coming out. 

I’ve been at my place of work and never once publicly declared myself heterosexual. My partner - who happens to be female - has come up in conversation with my colleagues/friends at work, but I’ve never publicly stated my sexual preferences.

In fact, if I did, it would be seen as something rather odd to do. 

Is it just me? I get that a footballer in a gay relationship might feel uncomfortable telling his colleagues that his partner is in fact a man, but how is going ‘hey everyone, I like men and not women’ to the entire world going to help that? If there’s a culture within a particular workplace, at club level, then that’s an issue that that club needs to address.

Someone’s sexuality seems a socially acceptable obsession that’s in fashion right now.

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8 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I really don’t get the media’s obsession with a player coming out. 

I’ve been at my place of work and never once publicly declared myself heterosexual. My partner - who happens to be female - has come up in conversation with my colleagues/friends at work, but I’ve never publicly stated my sexual preferences.

In fact, if I did, it would be seen as something rather odd to do. 

Is it just me? I get that a footballer in a gay relationship might feel uncomfortable telling his colleagues that his partner is in fact a man, but how is going ‘hey everyone, I like men and not women’ to the entire world going to help that? If there’s a culture within a particular workplace, at club level, then that’s an issue that that club needs to address.

Someone’s sexuality seems a socially acceptable obsession that’s in fashion right now.

I think the issue is that imagine in your work environment that even if the conversation did cone round to partners you didn't feel you were able to even say you had a wife, let alone bring her to work events or God forbid give her a kiss.

I don't think it's a case of outing people but I find it strange that people can't recognise that all the things you take for granted which involve your wife, for gay people professional football doesn't hold allow them.

What magnifies this is the fact that many other facets of society have.

I really don't see how trying to make a section of society feel welcome is a bad thing?

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9 hours ago, spudski said:

Where is all this LGBT stuff coming from? Who's leading it? What is the agenda behind it? Why is it being thought of?

I notice the the education secretary is also advising teachers at all girl and all boy schools, not to refer to them as boys or girls when addressing them as a group.

The whole world is going absolutely feckin mental. It's getting beyond ridiculous.

All it does is cause resentment...not awareness.

It's all going to backfire soon...and I'm under the impression that's what the 'agenda' actually wants. Social unrest amongst everyone.

Apparently we will be playing Personchester in the Carabou cup now . 

 

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7 hours ago, Irishred said:

It's all part of a radical feminist agenda to undermine what it means to be a man. The vast majority of men are tolerant, understanding and receptive to friends and family members being gay but we are made feel like dinosaurs because we are heterosexual, inclined towards leadership roles and interested in football or whatever sport or pastime is associated with being masculine. There is a concentrated effort to promote gender fluidity and it is having an confusing and detrimental effect on younger people. All we need is to teach people to respect differences and treat everyone well regardless of colour, race, religion or orientation. I'm glad I grew up in a different era.

P.S. I'm all in favour of feminism but not the radical, looney, variety!

:clap:

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I think another relevant statistic is the proportion of knuckleheads in any given football crowd. I think it’s fair to say it’s a higher proportion than most other similar crowds. 

You only have to go on a Saturday to see how many people choose to go to the game to either get coked up or make hand gestures at the opposition supporters rather than actually watch the game. 

It still comes as no shock to me that the first current pro footballer isn’t out yet, which is sad. 

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How is it going to work, when the Government deciding whether you have a male or female tax allowance? What are they going to do...say they are neither?

So the Government will issue all kinds of 'guidelines' when it comes to talking about 'him' and 'her'...or calling them 'boy' or 'girl'. Yet don't have 'type' in place.

I notice Bournemouth and Swansea have taken things even further this weekend, and have given the fans an option to use 'MX' as their identity for tickets ..known as a Mux or Mix.

Perhaps the Government should take notice, include MX in the taxation code, adding male and female percentages together....that'll quickly sharpen their brain as to what sex they are ;-) :laugh:

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7 hours ago, Irishred said:

It's all part of a radical feminist agenda to undermine what it means to be a man. The vast majority of men are tolerant, understanding and receptive to friends and family members being gay but we are made feel like dinosaurs because we are heterosexual, inclined towards leadership roles and interested in football or whatever sport or pastime is associated with being masculine. There is a concentrated effort to promote gender fluidity and it is having an confusing and detrimental effect on younger people. All we need is to teach people to respect differences and treat everyone well regardless of colour, race, religion or orientation. I'm glad I grew up in a different era.

P.S. I'm all in favour of feminism but not the radical, looney, variety!

Interesting point.

Like you I wouldn't have a problem if the gay couple next to me celebrated a city goal with a great big smooch.

Similarly, like you, if a footballer accepted an award hand in hand with his partner, what's the big deal.

It makes you wonder where all this comes from.

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14 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

I think another relevant statistic is the proportion of knuckleheads in any given football crowd. I think it’s fair to say it’s a higher proportion than most other similar crowds. 

You only have to go on a Saturday to see how many people choose to go to the game to either get coked up or make hand gestures at the opposition supporters rather than actually watch the game. 

It still comes as no shock to me that the first current pro footballer isn’t out yet, which is sad. 

It's very simple though Fordy...you just ban anyone who is abusing.

The same way is if anyone was shouting racist remarks these days.

Football fans pick on anything they can that's 'different'....imagine being Welsh, fat, ginger, short, ugly, weird haircut etc playing at the Gate

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1 hour ago, 054123 said:

I think the issue is that imagine in your work environment that even if the conversation did cone round to partners you didn't feel you were able to even say you had a wife, let alone bring her to work events or God forbid give her a kiss.

I don't think it's a case of outing people but I find it strange that people can't recognise that all the things you take for granted which involve your wife, for gay people professional football doesn't hold allow them.

What magnifies this is the fact that many other facets of society have.

I really don't see how trying to make a section of society feel welcome is a bad thing?

I absolutely don’t think it’s a bad thing at all mate. What irks me is the media’s unhealthy obsession with someone’s sexuality.

Do we honestly think they care if the problem is actually a deep rooted culture thing? IMO they just want to ‘expose’ a big name as being gay for the clicks it will generate. 

I’m fully behind any initiative that seeks to address any element of social inequality, and I don’t give two hoots if any City player is straight, gay, bi or whatever. But if the root cause is that there’s a fundamental culture problem within football - which I don’t know if that’s the case or not (and I suspect a great number of people who claim that there is a problem have no actual evidence beyond ‘no footballers have come out’) - then that isn’t going to be addressed by going to The Sun and telling everyone that you’re gay. 

Just because no footballers have told the media of their sexual preferences - does that mean there’s a culture problem? Maybe they just don’t want to be ‘the one’ that all the fuss is made about? 

I’d like to think that if any City player wanted (key point) to disclose their sexual preferences to their team mates, they’d be able to without fear of negative consequence. If that isn’t the case then that’s something for the club as the employer to put right.

I know the average workplace isn’t comparable to professional football, but I know several gay people at my place of work. Yet not one of them has ever said ‘I’m a gay man by the way’. That’s what I don’t get - this obsession with someone ‘confessing’ to it like they need to hold their hand up and tell everyone that their sexual preference is for the same sex. It’s unnecessary and unhealthy and is directly contributing to people’s unhealhy fascination with the lives of others. 

Could it just be that footballers are, in the main, already so sick of the press attention that comes with being a footballer, without adding sexuality into the mix?

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1 hour ago, Steve Watts said:

I don't see it as a campaign to make them come out....  I think you'll find it's more of a campaign to make them feel comfortable coming out if they so wish.  Unfortunately we see some reactions here that are the reason they may feel uneasy do so.  

It's about giving any gay footballer, or even football fan, a choice about whether they want to come out,. The impression is that the historic homophobic views of some end up making some feel that they have no option to be open about their sexuality for fear of abuse.  

People getting worked up over such a campaign kinda show why there is a need for it in the first place.

I disagree. I’m all for people being who they want and doing what they want. I just don’t really appreciate having it forced on me that I must accept all different types of people, when I am doing anyway, using my own moral compass! 

My point however is that why are they so adamant that there are loads of gay footballers who are worried about coming out..? The stats in many posts above make it very possible that there really aren’t that many. 

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1 hour ago, Wanderingred said:

Haha. Bar BS3, you seem to have let the widely portrayed stereotype of gays in the media cloud your judgement here. 

I would suggest that the number of gay people involved in football would be similar to the national average. Why wouldn't it be? Sexuality is just that. It doesn't necessarily define a persons behaviour or careeer interests (although sometimes it does).

Either way, you are right that it's nobody's business.

Interesting angle! Don’t the “experts” claim that being gay is indeed, not a choice, but part of a persons “make up” (no pun intended..!) 

IF being gay is related to things such as testosterone levels (partly) then I think it is bound to have an impact on careers and lifestyles. 

I work in a media environment and there is way higher than average percentage of gay people (not just men) in my work environment. So yes, I believe that it does have an impact. 

It’s probably because being gay is not an unusual thing in my work environment, that it’s really not noteworthy. I understand that football is probably a less accepting environment, because gay players are not common place.  That doesn’t however mean that there are loads of gay players who are too uncomfortable to come out. They just might not be gay..!

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12 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I absolutely don’t think it’s a bad thing at all mate. What irks me is the media’s unhealthy obsession with someone’s sexuality.

Do we honestly think they care if the problem is actually a deep rooted culture thing? IMO they just want to ‘expose’ a big name as being gay for the clicks it will generate. 

I’m fully behind any initiative that seeks to address any element of social inequality, and I don’t give two hoots if any City player is straight, gay, bi or whatever. But if the root cause is that there’s a fundamental culture problem within football - which I don’t know if that’s the case or not (and I suspect a great number of people who claim that there is a problem have no actual evidence beyond ‘no footballers have come out’) - then that isn’t going to be addressed by going to The Sun and telling everyone that you’re gay. 

Just because no footballers have told the media of their sexual preferences - does that mean there’s a culture problem? Maybe they just don’t want to be ‘the one’ that all the fuss is made about? 

I’d like to think that if any City player wanted (key point) to disclose their sexual preferences to their team mates, they’d be able to without fear of negative consequence. If that isn’t the case then that’s something for the club as the employer to put right.

I know the average workplace isn’t comparable to professional football, but I know several gay people at my place of work. Yet not one of them has ever said ‘I’m a gay man by the way’. That’s what I don’t get - this obsession with someone ‘confessing’ to it like they need to hold their hand up and tell everyone that their sexual preference is for the same sex. It’s unnecessary and unhealthy and is directly contributing to people’s unhealhy fascination with the lives of others. 

Could it just be that footballers are, in the main, already so sick of the press attention that comes with being a footballer, without adding sexuality into the mix?

I know, and I agree with your sentiment.

I'll try putting it another way, say a parent constantly belittled a child to the point where the child could no longer speak to them. Then one one day the parent folds their arms and says "fine, if you've got something to say just say it".

Do you think the child would respond in that environment or do you think the patent would need to go through a period of try to make the child feel comfortable to be themselves and speak if they wished?

I think ultimately my point is I really don't see the problem with any of this. It's just trying to make a section of society who have historically been ostracized by football, feel welcome again.

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3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Interesting angle! Don’t the “experts” claim that being gay is indeed, not a choice, but part of a persons “make up” (no pun intended..!) 

IF being gay is related to things such as testosterone levels (partly) then I think it is bound to have an impact on careers and lifestyles. 

I work in a media environment and there is way higher than average percentage of gay people (not just men) in my work environment. So yes, I believe that it does have an impact. 

It’s probably because being gay is not an unusual thing in my work environment, that it’s really not noteworthy. I understand that football is probably a less accepting environment, because gay players are not common place.  That doesn’t however mean that there are loads of gay players who are too uncomfortable to come out. They just might not be gay..!

I don’t agree with that in the workplace!

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1 hour ago, DaveF said:

I just wanna know how come @Bar BS3 knows so much about gay people?

I don’t, not really. I did look up some statistical facts to research my views (unlike @Robbored)

As I’ve said in many other posts on this, I work in an industry where there are a high percentage of gay people, comparatively. 

 

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1 minute ago, 054123 said:

I know, and I agree with your sentiment.

I'll try putting it another way, say a parent constantly belittled a child to the point where the child could no longer speak to them. Then one one day the parent folds their arms and says "fine, if you've got something to say just say it".

Do you think the child would respond in that environment or do you think the patent would need to go through a period of try to make the child feel comfortable to be themselves and speak if they wished?

I think ultimately my point is I really don't see the problem with any of this. It's just trying to make a section of society who have historically been ostracized by football, feel welcome again.

I completely agree. FWIW I’m talking purely about my distaste for the media’s interests...which IMO have nothing to do with equality or inclusion...I wasn’t in any way trying to belittle the efforts of initiatives such as this. 

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46 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's very simple though Fordy...you just ban anyone who is abusing.

The same way is if anyone was shouting racist remarks these days.

Football fans pick on anything they can that's 'different'....imagine being Welsh, fat, ginger, short, ugly, weird haircut etc playing at the Gate

I don't care if they're black, brown, yellow. Orientals make good footballers.

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8 hours ago, Irishred said:

It's all part of a radical feminist agenda to undermine what it means to be a man. The vast majority of men are tolerant, understanding and receptive to friends and family members being gay but we are made feel like dinosaurs because we are heterosexual, inclined towards leadership roles and interested in football or whatever sport or pastime is associated with being masculine. There is a concentrated effort to promote gender fluidity and it is having an confusing and detrimental effect on younger people. All we need is to teach people to respect differences and treat everyone well regardless of colour, race, religion or orientation. I'm glad I grew up in a different era.

P.S. I'm all in favour of feminism but not the radical, looney, variety!

Let's stop degrading women shall we, please.

Let's have a laugh with them, not at them. Have a laugh at work, with women, at us.

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