Soft pens / Stonewall pens

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Spot the Liverpool fans in this thread...

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, El Hombrecito said:

The thing that annoys me is when a pundit will say "there was contact, so he's entitled to go down" - um, nope, football is a contact sport. If the contact wasn't enough to cause him to fall over and wasn't excessive then it's not a bloody foul.

That is not correct. If you push an opponent it is a foul. If your push an opponent carelessly it is a foul. In this case did the player dive? Yes. Was there a push? Yes a girly little one. Was the push careless? Yes. Soft as .... Yes.

It may be a case of what type of football do people really want to see.

[havanatopia]

2 hours ago, Super said:

Course it was a dive! You actually think there was enough contact to push him to the ground?

Only takes a nudge at that speed and its clear Lovren gave him one.

2 hours ago, Super said:

Because it is the thing to do in football these days to throw yourself to the ground trying to con the officials. If Billy Sharp did that on Friday I guarantee many on here would see it different.

I admit its quite easy to be cynical and think everyone dives or to say its the norm. I simply don't agree especially this season with banning for faking it being a tool.

I expressed my thoughts earlier in this thread but again.. Lovren looks like he gives a clear push.. I have now watched it several times and I, like Leveller and Kotsy, have already made the case for a slight push being all that is required to knock somebodys balance running at speed. I think its a clear penalty. Moreover the guy had no reason to dive. He was better staying on his feet.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Nibor said:

Come off it, that's the excuse Andy Gray trots out.  It's occasionally true when you're caught below your centre of gravity e.g. a heel clip, not when a hand touches your back lightly. 

This sort of after the fact rationalisation doesn't make it ok to run into a defender at pace and then dive and claim a foul.  It's just what cheats have managed to get normalised.

A player trying to stay on their feet in that situation would have been able to easily, he was simply not impeded.

Why let yourself become unbalanced by a slight push by stupid defending, struggle to get your balance,lose the ball, lose chance of penalty. When you could just fall over and make sure the Ref gives it. 

Lovren tried a little sly push, enough to put DCL off and Lovren gain an advantage. He failed miserably. 

[havanatopia]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Why let yourself become unbalanced by a slight push by stupid defending, struggle to get your balance,lose the ball, lose chance of penalty. When you could just fall over and make sure the Ref gives it. 

Lovren tried a little sly push, enough to put DCL off and Lovren gain an advantage. He failed miserably. 

The funny thing is i dont think any of that entered his head; the Everton player i mean... He is running fast remember, he gets pushed or nudged call it what you like and he's down immediately. No time to think.

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Kotsy said:

Spot the Liverpool fans in this thread...

Im no Liverpool  fan, but didn't think it was a penalty.

Wilder was an idiot for suggesting that football is ruined if you cant tackle like that (Fleck's challenge on Korey) However, I well remember the types of challenge that used to be fairly normal back in the 60s and 70s and the authorities were correct in trying to outlaw the tackle from behind and reckless challenges such as Fleck's last Friday. Unfortunately in prescribing unacceptable challenges, they have now sanitised the game to the degree where it has almost become a non-contact sport and any sort of physical contact is deemed an offence to be punished.

As I commented earlier on the thread, I am  waiting with baited breath for the slew of penalties that will now be awarded for pushing, holding and all in wrestling at just about every corner kick, if Lovren's "push" is now the benchmark for a penalty offence. Think I will be waiting some time. 

 

[CityCiderEd]

Anywhere else on the pitch and players and fans would be screaming for a free kick but because it's in the box it's not a penalty.CL runs across Loevren and you can clearly see he pushes him with both hands.Brainless defending and got what he deserved as CL was running away from goal.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

The funny thing is i dont think any of that entered his head; the Everton player i mean... He is running fast remember, he gets pushed or nudged call it what you like and he's down immediately. No time to think.

I think there’s a point where upon getting contact and starting to unbalance you will decide 1) whether to try to stay up or 2) go down. You can’t decide which option to take until contact is made. 

If you try to predict contact you run the risk of diving when there is no contact. 

I seem to recall a training video of a quick player being given varying degrees of nudges at full flight. In virtually all cases he either fell over or really struggled to stay up right, let alone control or stay in control of a football!

the sooner more penalties are given for fouls that would get free kicks had they been outside of the box, the sooner defenders will learn to defend properly. As a centre half I cringe at some of the basic defensive challenges made by professionals, especially in the box!

[AppyDAZE]

On the subject of The "not really so special after all" One...  after yesterday's game the guy should've had the balls to come out and just admit that he was beaten by the better side.

After all, I hear even some on the Stretford End applauded off Pep. Like someone said, a real lack of class AGAIN, Jose.

Klopp for me had more of a point, but sounded a bit desperate and you certainly COULD claim it was a pen. it looked a shove, although a tiny one.

 

[Kingswood Robin]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Im no Liverpool  fan, but didn't think it was a penalty.

Wilder was an idiot for suggesting that football is ruined if you cant tackle like that (Fleck's challenge on Korey) However, I well remember the types of challenge that used to be fairly normal back in the 60s and 70s and the authorities were correct in trying to outlaw the tackle from behind and reckless challenges such as Fleck's last Friday. Unfortunately in prescribing unacceptable challenges, they have now sanitised the game to the degree where it has almost become a non-contact sport and any sort of physical contact is deemed an offence to be punished.

As I commented earlier on the thread, I am  waiting with baited breath for the slew of penalties that will now be awarded for pushing, holding and all in wrestling at just about every corner kick, if Lovren's "push" is now the benchmark for a penalty offence. Think I will be waiting some time. 

 

I wouldn't want to be a referee these days. It's virtually impossible for them to pick out a single offence at corners when there's so much going on from defenders and attackers. My message to moaning managers about soft penalties, is stop telling forwards to fall over every time someone goes anywhere near them. You reap what you sow I'm afraid.

[Up The City!]

The fact he went to ground is irrelevant. He was pushed with two hands. That's the foul. If he stayed on his feet it's still a foul because the offence is the push, not the effect of the push.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

4 hours ago, Leveller said:

Absolutely, yes. It doesn’t take much contact to throw you off balance when you are moving at high speed. You must know that if you’ve played the game.

Out of interest did you see Danny Murphy on MOTD? He said something like “any fan who thinks that wasn’t a penalty is just plain wrong”.

Would he have gone down with the same contact whilst running for bus outside of Lime Street station and risking real serious injury or do you think he would have tried harder to have stayed on his feet?.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

25 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

The fact he went to ground is irrelevant. He was pushed with two hands. That's the foul. If he stayed on his feet it's still a foul because the offence is the push, not the effect of the push.

it's not irrelevant at all, it's embellishment, the same way that saying that an assault was worse than it actually was, embellishment to get and end result.

[Leveller]

41 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Would he have gone down with the same contact whilst running for bus outside of Lime Street station and risking real serious injury or do you think he would have tried harder to have stayed on his feet?.

 

Yes.

No.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, Leveller said:

Yes.

No.

Wrong

and

Wrong again.

He must have something wrong with his balance.

It was what can be best described as a 'premiership' penalty.

 

[Leveller]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Wrong

and

Wrong again.

He must have something wrong with his balance.

It was what can be best described as a 'premiership' penalty.

 

Bored now. Like I said before, agree to differ.

[Nibor]

Just watched it again and it's even worse cheating than I originally thought.  The ball which is spinning away to the left before there's any contact and he deliberately jumps to the right away from the ball into Lovren to bring about the opportunity to dive.  He should be looking at a lengthy ban.

[redfieldred]

18 hours ago, Bryans Left Peg said:

Lovren has clearly pushed him and I would say technically, it is a penalty, but he's clearly made a meal out of it, backing into him and then diving forward.

There's no consistency in the game though and this happens about 5 times per corner and nothing is ever given.

You win some, you lose some. 

 

Too much inconsistency these days and it's become part & parcel of the game as the FA don't appear to do anything about it.

Lovren must look at himself. He had no reason to lift his arm and push the player. It's a totally unnecessary penalty, but it is a penalty. 

[Bryans Left Peg]

2 minutes ago, redfieldred said:

Lovren must look at himself. He had no reason to lift his arm and push the player. It's a totally unnecessary penalty, but it is a penalty. 

Agreed. Lovren should've been dropped by Liverpool three seasons ago.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

What I find strange is referees manage to fully see the micro contact leading to a theatrical fall obviously quite clearly but when the WWE smackdown (the only thing missing is the brightly coloured masks) occurs at corners and free kicks 9 times out of 10 they see sweet **** all.

[Tangle Foot]

I’ve gotta say I thought Calvert-Lewis was quite clever. He got his body between Lovren and the ball, he then deliberately instigated contact with Lovren.

I’ve watched it back a few times now and to mind there was not a proper shove committed by Lovren, but Lovren did make it all too easy for the referee to make a decision - whether that was right or wrong!

 

[havanatopia]

11 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think there’s a point where upon getting contact and starting to unbalance you will decide 1) whether to try to stay up or 2) go down. You can’t decide which option to take until contact is made. 

If you try to predict contact you run the risk of diving when there is no contact. 

I seem to recall a training video of a quick player being given varying degrees of nudges at full flight. In virtually all cases he either fell over or really struggled to stay up right, let alone control or stay in control of a football!

You and I are not Calvert-Lewin obviously; suffice to say we have no clue what happened in his brain at that split second moment which is what it was. 

Regarding the training video; I was going to suggest that you, me and a camera crew set up in Greville Smyth Park and do a re-enactment! You can be Calvert-Lewin cos I suggested the idea and I don't wanna get all muddy!!

Hey, Tangle Foot; why are you agreeing to all sides of this argument? You must be a Liberal Democrat !!

And a note on Sado (sounds better than Sadio) Mane; I am glad Carragher came out and said it; Mane was dumb beyond belief not to pass that ball to 3 Liverpool players. I said to a friend at that moment 'you wait, they will look back on that incident and realise they lost the chance to win the game right there' . We have been talking of Calvert Lewin's brain clicking into play or not over a split second moment; this dumpling has 3 or 4 times that timeline to make a simple decision and he blew it. It is harsh to say it but when I saw his face after the event and that cringeworthy smile i thought right there and then; 'you are a simpleton fella'. Oh well, blame his parents I suppose. The sort of player we would buy though? I very much doubt it.

[Super]

4 hours ago, Tangle Foot said:

I’ve gotta say I thought Calvert-Lewis was quite clever. He got his body between Lovren and the ball, he then deliberately instigated contact with Lovren.

I’ve watched it back a few times now and to mind there was not a proper shove committed by Lovren, but Lovren did make it all too easy for the referee to make a decision - whether that was right or wrong!

 

It is blatant cheating not being clever. That is what is wrong with football these days.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, havanatopia said:

You and I are not Calvert-Lewin obviously; suffice to say we have no clue what happened in his brain at that split second moment which is what it was. 

Regarding the training video; I was going to suggest that you, me and a camera crew set up in Greville Smyth Park and do a re-enactment! You can be Calvert-Lewin cos I suggested the idea and I don't wanna get all muddy!!

Hey, Tangle Foot; why are you agreeing to all sides of this argument? You must be a Liberal Democrat !!

And a note on Sado (sounds better than Sadio) Mane; I am glad Carragher came out and said it; Mane was dumb beyond belief not to pass that ball to 3 Liverpool players. I said to a friend at that moment 'you wait, they will look back on that incident and realise they lost the chance to win the game right there' . We have been talking of Calvert Lewin's brain clicking into play or not over a split second moment; this dumpling has 3 or 4 times that timeline to make a simple decision and he blew it. It is harsh to say it but when I saw his face after the event and that cringeworthy smile i thought right there and then; 'you are a simpleton fella'. Oh well, blame his parents I suppose. The sort of player we would buy though? I very much doubt it.

Ok, you’re on. To be fair I couldn’t be Lovren, as a former CB I couldn’t recreate being that stupid!  I might wear some old trackies or Keith Weller’s tights to save me getting muddy knees. 

And Mane should’ve passed. 

[redfieldred]

17 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

What I find strange is referees manage to fully see the micro contact leading to a theatrical fall obviously quite clearly but when the WWE smackdown (the only thing missing is the brightly coloured masks) occurs at corners and free kicks 9 times out of 10 they see sweet **** all.

 That's cos it's all off the ball and there's loads of it going on and to varying degrees. They tried to come down hard on it start of last season, but that seems to have petered out. 

[Tangle Foot]

17 hours ago, Super said:

It is blatant cheating not being clever. That is what is wrong with football these days.

Some call it professionalism, some call it cheating. I certainly wouldn’t/don’t condone that sort of behaviour. 

Totally agree, Football would be far better without it!

COYR.