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Warnock- genius or pariah?


bcfcredandwhite

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39 minutes ago, spudski said:

I've got nothing against Warnock as a person BBSB.... I don't like his style of playing football, as I don't think it has long term benefits for any club.

My reference to his abilities as a coach are also not just pointed at his time at Cardiff.

His assistants over the years, not just Cardiff,  have done all the coaching.

It's well known he spends very little time compared to other managers and coaches with the players during the week.

The reference to spending time with his wife, isn't a dig, I know she's been ill...but he's done this for years, way before she wasn't well, so it's not a recent thing.

His 'difference' comes on match day, before and during the game. He is very motivational and intimidating at the same time.

 

Not so sure about that mate

If anywhere near true - then he's (consistently) picked some bloody good assistants / coaches !

;):laughcont:

Most promoted manager

Prefer to watch the football we are playing , but boy is Warnock effective , and very underrated tactically

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6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Not so sure about that mate

If anywhere near true - then he's (consistently) picked some bloody good assistants / coaches !

;):laughcont:

Most promoted manager

Prefer to watch the football we are playing , but boy is Warnock effective , and very underrated tactically

Blackwell's connection with Warnock goes right back to the mid 80's...and he's followed him pretty much ever since.

Jepson has also been close to Warnock since his Huddersfield days in the 90's.

His 'tactics' are anti football.

His teams have the ball in play statistically the least amount of time. On purpose. He does everything he can to waste time and play the percentages.

He gets players to cheat, get in the refs and officials faces, waste time, play the channels and get the ball in the box and shoot on sight.

It's very 'anti football' and imo, not good for the game.

If every team played Warnock's way...fans would leave in their droves.

 

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38 minutes ago, spudski said:

Blackwell's connection with Warnock goes right back to the mid 80's...and he's followed him pretty much ever since.

Jepson has also been close to Warnock since his Huddersfield days in the 90's.

His 'tactics' are anti football.

His teams have the ball in play statistically the least amount of time. On purpose. He does everything he can to waste time and play the percentages.

He gets players to cheat, get in the refs and officials faces, waste time, play the channels and get the ball in the box and shoot on sight.

It's very 'anti football' and imo, not good for the game.

If every team played Warnock's way...fans would leave in their droves.

 

Get the impression you don't like him Spud !

In theory in an ideal world all football would be sublime and we all love to see such football and most of us have been grilled with some of the football played under Cotts and more recently LJ , two different styles and methods of play but both good to watch

Not a fan of some of Warnock tactics but he's damned effective and if every side tried to play the same way football , and without characters of whatever type, would actually become totally sterile and eventually boring

I thought you were against all things sterile ;)

 

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45 minutes ago, spudski said:

Blackwell's connection with Warnock goes right back to the mid 80's...and he's followed him pretty much ever since.

Jepson has also been close to Warnock since his Huddersfield days in the 90's.

His 'tactics' are anti football.

His teams have the ball in play statistically the least amount of time. On purpose. He does everything he can to waste time and play the percentages.

He gets players to cheat, get in the refs and officials faces, waste time, play the channels and get the ball in the box and shoot on sight.

It's very 'anti football' and imo, not good for the game.

If every team played Warnock's way...fans would leave in their droves.

 

Agree, he is a spoiler, and I hope he doesn't get what he doesn't deserve with promotion, especially with that lot. 

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5 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Get the impression you don't like him Spud !

In theory in an ideal world all football would be sublime and we all love to see such football and most of us have been grilled with some of the football played under Cotts and more recently LJ , two different styles and methods of play but both good to watch

Not a fan of some of Warnock tactics but he's damned effective and if every side tried to play the same way football , and without characters of whatever type, would actually become totally sterile and eventually boring

I thought you were against all things sterile ;)

 

Like I said in my previous post BBSB...I have nothing against Warnock the person.

I just don't agree with his style of playing football and how he goes about it.

I see it as no different to trying to cheat the ref by taking a dive...which I know from someone who's worked with him, he encourages. In saying that...many do these days.

Yes...he's the pantomime villain...and it does add colour to football.

However...I'd want him no where near this Club or wish him on any other.

I feel for any young player wanting to break through at Cardiff...good luck with that under Warnock.

My GF's family are all Cardiff supporters...they all like him. You can imagine the banter....you just know we're both going to the play off finals...it's written :laugh:

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I quite like him. He revels in being the pantomime villain and is very effective at being vocal on the touchline. He also seems really good at motivating players. I've never met him but I've heard that he's a decent enough bloke when he's away from his manager's persona. 

I wouldn't want him at City, though. I don't like the way his teams play football, setting out to stifle games. Maybe effective as a short term fix in a crisis (e.g. a relegation fight) but not building a solid base for the future.

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11 hours ago, WhistleHappy said:

COLIN  has deservedly made a name for himself in football management...

.....nobody in World sport does anagrams better!  :) 

( unless anyone knows better? )  

Well if you rearrange "Bristol Rovers" enough you get "Bristol Rovers"....how embarrassing is that??

3 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Great analogy. We've all got a mate like that!

I haven't.... wait...does that make me that mate?!? :crying:

As for Warnock, bollocks to promotion.  I'd rather spend years pootling around the Championship trying to play the right way than spending a few years suffering his brand of "football" just to reach the "promised land".  Ask West Brom fans and they'd say the same thing after enduring Penis for the last few years.

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17 minutes ago, spudski said:

Like I said in my previous post...I have nothing against Warnock the person.

Yes...he's the pantomime villain...and it does add colour to football.

My GF's family are all Cardiff supporters...they all like him. You can imagine the banter....you just know we're both going to the play off finals...it's written :laugh:

Here's hoping, but can you imagine the carnage on the M4?

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4 hours ago, 054123 said:

I don't deny he gets results.

To me he's like the mate you've got who every time you go out acts like a dick and trys to kick off or something. 

To you and your circle, he's alright and actually a really good bloke once you get to know him. To everyone else who sporadically comes into contact with him, he's just a tool.

Given none of my mates seem to be like that, I am now worried it's me....

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Living in Cornwall have seen him a few times, always has time to stop and talk football. Only saw him a few weeks ago and he was VERY complementary on how we are playing and the style of our football.  he is a very nice person away from football, and always willing to give his time to talk.  Can't say that I am enamored by his style of play, but can only say as I found him. 

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Never liked Warnock, can't stand his style of football, if every team played in a Warnock style, I doubt I would watch much football. I know some people will say it's all about the result but for me, while I want us to win it's about how we play as well, so the style of football and in the correct spirit is important for me.


If anyone incident epitomises Warnock it's was when Sheffield United played West Brom, and the game was abandoned, it was known as the Battle of Bramall Lane.


Like many have said I understand he is a nice chap away from football. However, I never want him down the gate unless he is the opposing manager when a win is all the sweeter.

 

 

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12 hours ago, RUSSEL85 said:

Colin is a very good manager and during our bad run last season I would have crawled through broken glass to get him here. He would steadied the ship but so glad our owners stood by their decision, shows I don't know very much about football management.

Totally agree a right wind up merchant but a great manager has had success with every club. the blokes took on crap sides like Rotherham plymouth Notts county in lower leagues an look what hes done at Cardiff who were dropping like a stone not a nice bloke maybe but quality manager

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1 hour ago, Offside said:

I quite like him. He revels in being the pantomime villain and is very effective at being vocal on the touchline. He also seems really good at motivating players. I've never met him but I've heard that he's a decent enough bloke when he's away from his manager's persona. 

I wouldn't want him at City, though. I don't like the way his teams play football, setting out to stifle games. Maybe effective as a short term fix in a crisis (e.g. a relegation fight) but not building a solid base for the future.

He's not in a relegation fight now though 

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It’s effective but wouldn’t want him here.

Rather have a team succeed by actually trying to play football than do everything they can to not. 

As for ‘a special day when Warnock comes to town’ ... cringe. It’s a special day when he ***** off again because his team and his antics are so enraging to watch. 

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42 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Totally agree a right wind up merchant but a great manager has had success with every club. the blokes took on crap sides like Rotherham plymouth Notts county in lower leagues an look what hes done at Cardiff who were dropping like a stone not a nice bloke maybe but quality manager

But isn't that the whole argument?

Apparently (I have never met him) he is a nice bloke and, like or hate his style of football - I am not a fan - he does have a good record in the 'lower' leagues.

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Definitely not a genius. Good man-management is one thing, but those managers inevitably lose speed/the players after a while once they're tactically found out. Happens to Pardew on a very regular basis. It's not just trigger happy chairmen that are to blame for managers constantly getting the chop.

Ferguson was so good because he knew tactics AND man-management, and mind games. He had it all. 

The reason Warnock, Allardyce and co do well from the outset is because they have a simple gameplan that is easy to learn and tricky to break down. It's a perfectly valid form of playing, but also is a kind of last resort when a club is in disarray. It's only bearable for so long.

I'd much rather LJ than Warnock any day because he clearly prepares his tactics for each specific game, and in doing so makes his players more intelligent and tactically aware. Obviously I've no idea what his man management skills are like, but the squad seem to be pretty together, Reid is playing his best football with us, and players like Smith and Flint seem to be back to their best.

I wouldn't rule out having Warnock at the club if City spiraled in the next few years and were in a bad way, but I wouldn't want him at the club for more than a year, as that's all he's good for.

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1 hour ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Totally agree a right wind up merchant but a great manager has had success with every club. the blokes took on crap sides like Rotherham plymouth Notts county in lower leagues an look what hes done at Cardiff who were dropping like a stone not a nice bloke maybe but quality manager

He probably is a nice bloke, just not when it comes to the football side of things :shifty:

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1 hour ago, Luxo Jr. said:

Definitely not a genius. Good man-management is one thing, but those managers inevitably lose speed/the players after a while once they're tactically found out. Happens to Pardew on a very regular basis. It's not just trigger happy chairmen that are to blame for managers constantly getting the chop.

Ferguson was so good because he knew tactics AND man-management, and mind games. He had it all. 

The reason Warnock, Allardyce and co do well from the outset is because they have a simple gameplan that is easy to learn and tricky to break down. It's a perfectly valid form of playing, but also is a kind of last resort when a club is in disarray. It's only bearable for so long.

I'd much rather LJ than Warnock any day because he clearly prepares his tactics for each specific game, and in doing so makes his players more intelligent and tactically aware. Obviously I've no idea what his man management skills are like, but the squad seem to be pretty together, Reid is playing his best football with us, and players like Smith and Flint seem to be back to their best.

I wouldn't rule out having Warnock at the club if City spiraled in the next few years and were in a bad way, but I wouldn't want him at the club for more than a year, as that's all he's good for.

I wouldn't put Warnock and Big Sam in the same sentence. Completely different.

Allardyce is one of the most astute managers around. He was at the forefront of technical data and stats with football, and still is.

He uses that data well, and incorporates it into his team building and structure.

He's a misunderstood manager imo...most people think he's old hat, but he's far from that.

 

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3 hours ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

Funnily enough, there are some people who are STILL saying that type of thing about our own Lee J. 

Quite a few live in Sheffield post codes :whistle:

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1 hour ago, Luxo Jr. said:

Definitely not a genius. Good man-management is one thing, but those managers inevitably lose speed/the players after a while once they're tactically found out. Happens to Pardew on a very regular basis. It's not just trigger happy chairmen that are to blame for managers constantly getting the chop.

Ferguson was so good because he knew tactics AND man-management, and mind games. He had it all. 

The reason Warnock, Allardyce and co do well from the outset is because they have a simple gameplan that is easy to learn and tricky to break down. It's a perfectly valid form of playing, but also is a kind of last resort when a club is in disarray. It's only bearable for so long.

I'd much rather LJ than Warnock any day because he clearly prepares his tactics for each specific game, and in doing so makes his players more intelligent and tactically aware. Obviously I've no idea what his man management skills are like, but the squad seem to be pretty together, Reid is playing his best football with us, and players like Smith and Flint seem to be back to their best.

I wouldn't rule out having Warnock at the club if City spiraled in the next few years and were in a bad way, but I wouldn't want him at the club for more than a year, as that's all he's good for.

I was just going to give you a like, but I have none left.

So, for the record, your post sort of corresponds with my views on Colin: for the record.  

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He has something in common with Mourinho in that, although he has an impressive track record and gets results, he brings the game into disrepute almost every time he loses.  Neither of them ae capable of saying "we were beaten by a better team" instead it is always 'we were cheated",  "the ref was biased", "it should have/should not have (delete according to which way it went), been a penalty", "he should have/should never have, been sent off".

It is tedious and childish, I would prefer both of them gone fom the game.  I don't find it entertaining or a sign of them being 'winners', it is just churlish, small minded children who cannot behave like grown ups.

So, on balance, I'd say I am in the 'Against' camp!

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