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Lip Readers ....

WhistleHappy

By WhistleHappy
in Football Chat

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richwwtk

richwwtk

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, WhistleHappy said:

Do clubs actually employ 'lip readers' nowadays?  .... If not what's all this covering mouths with hands that players and coaches seem to do a lot of now all about?... 

Just bloody bugs me, tbh.  

 

I would imagine that is to stop the media employing lip readers if anything, they are probably 'coached' to do it these days.

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Lanterne Rouge

Lanterne Rouge

Posted
Posted

You only got to read the thread about a tv viewer reporting a fan for making the manual manipulator sign to realise how many ready to be offended snowflakes there are out there. Easily avoided and not worth the risk of a social media meltdown over some innocuous comment.

12 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Because if you saw them saying effing this and jeffing that people would moan saying they are role models,footballers can't win 

 

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CiderHider

CiderHider

Posted
Posted

Most clubs I would imagine employ 'spies'  the money in the game is such that it would be foolish not to have one intensively scouting opposition players and staff. Yes that means lip reading them on match day. 

Imagine it's 60 mins into a cup final and you understand the opposition gaffer is going to throw on XXXX and take of XXXX, It might not be much of an advantage, but it's an advantage.

Lee measures the length of the pitch at away games to gain that little bit more info to ensure best possible result, It's not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine we have someone on our books who does 'specialist' scouting. 

 

 

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joe jordans teeth

joe jordans teeth

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, BCFC Richard said:

According to one of the interviews with LJ last year Rafa Benitez has someone watching his opposing manager for the whole match. to let him know if they are about to make tactical changes, substitutions etc. So it would be that much of a stretch from there.

That explains why Newcastle are crap now then,Rafa hasn't the foggiest what the other team are up to

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AppyDAZE

AppyDAZE

Posted
Posted

Tonght's mouth-covering was particularly pointless because i can tell you what was being said.

Carlos Carvalhal (to assistant) "do you think i'm gone on monday?

Ass: "Defo. Possibly tomorrow actually, boss

Carlos: "Shite, do you think people can tell what we are on about?

Ass: "Not sure, better cover our mouths

etc etc

 

Jota: "Ref fock this, fock that, fock fock fock , I'm small and they keep fouling me

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RedM

RedM

Posted
Posted

I can’t remember which match I watched recently but both team mates and opposing players were covering their mouths when talking to eachother straight after the match finished. It looked really weird, handshakes and pats on the backs with one hand over their mouths. 

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Red Skin

Red Skin

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, CiderHider said:

Imagine it's 60 mins into a cup final and you understand the opposition gaffer is going to throw on XXXX and take of XXXX, It might not be much of an advantage, but it's an advantage.

Those XXXX boys would be the first brothers to play in a cup final since the Nevilles wouldn't they?

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CrazyInWeston

CrazyInWeston

Posted
Posted

The thing nobody realises is that "lip reading" in particular is actually quite hard. ESPECIALLY NAMES!

I'm deaf so I have to rely on lip reading a lot. In fact as much as 80% of my understanding from speech comes from lip reading. HOWEVER I need some sound to help me distinguish between certain mouth shapes that could be an entirely different word, this is where the final 20% comes in and its an important 20%.

Imagine attending a business meeting where everyone around the table was whispering. Now imagine if you were deaf and they were covering their mouths, and mumbling their words. Picture the frustration you would experience at the end of the meeting when everyone left with their notes but you were left struggling to figure out what the discussion was even about. For deaf individuals who read lips, this situation plays itself out daily in both personal and professional settings. I've said this sentence here because when YOU are trying to lip read, surely you cannot "hear" them, so it would be the same. A deaf individual that lip reads would pick out more words than the average "hearie" BUT it comes with a caveat to what I said earlier. There are many mouth shapes that are the same for many many different words, many people mumble when they talk and even then the lip reader needs to somehow figure out the title of the conversation to really get a better idea about whats being said, but again however, they will fair better than the average folk trying to lip read, because of better practice.

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CrazyInWeston

CrazyInWeston

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Posted

Taken from: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/lydia-l-callis/lip-reading-is-no-simple-task_b_9526300.htm.

"When a person who is deaf uses speech and is capable of reading lips, hearing people may not understand the set of challenges they are overcoming just to have a simple one-on-one conversation. The hearing person might get annoyed that they are frequently asked to repeat themselves or to speak more slowly and clearly; they might lose patience and cut the conversation short.

Just because a person who is deaf can read lips does not mean that is the best way to communicate with them. The hearing community lacks an understanding of the real effort that goes into accessing conversation this way.

Too often, I am contacted by people who are deaf who have been denied interpreters in the workplace or in schools, or in any setting, because the hearing people they approached about providing reasonable accommodation used their own judgment to decide that the deaf person’s lip reading skills would be sufficient. Communication is a human right and refusing it is a subtle form of oppression."

I myself have been told by my doctors that my brain works 5 times as hard trying to communicate with people and I do get exhausted upon big long convos 1 on 1 - I myself CANNOT follow a group of people talking to each other because I have no idea who's gonna speak next, so I've lost quite often the first 3/4 words trying to figure out who is talking, by the time I've figured out who is talking I've lost their topic of their convo, which is why almost every deaf person asks you to repeat yourselves. If we cant fathom the topic, we cannot know what on earth you're talking about, because mouth shapes are the same for so many words.....

"Studies show that only about 30 to 45 percent of the English language can be understood through lip reading alone. Even the most talented lip readers are not able to gather a full message based solely on lip reading, although they are often quite skilled at interpreting facial cues, body language, and context to figure it out. As you can imagine, this technique works the brain in a number of different ways and becomes exhausting over any extended period of time." (again from same website.)

I myself shouldn't be able to talk, I am deemed "profoundly" deaf by the doctors, I should be communicating in sign language only. But I CAN talk, and I can talk so well you wouldn't know I was even deaf unless I told you. The Childrens department in London's Nose, Throat and Ear hospital kept me till I was 21 because they were so fascinated I can talk despite the hearing tests they have tell them I shouldn't!

In fact when I was 2yrs old, mum mum got dragged through the courts for refusing to put hearing aids on me because the doctors saw it as a form of child abuse. My mum won the case, I still dont wear hearing aids (no help). Sadly I lost my dad during the case trial - My mum says it was over the stress that they would lose and I would be taken away, but who knows.

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Red Skin

Red Skin

Posted
Posted

@CrazyInWeston Thanks for the insight.  Tough enough dealing with deafness without losing your dad too.  

I guess the context/subject for these conversations is always a footballing one and 'listen' for specific football phrases or word that may indicate a change in tactics.  Though, as you say, you wouldn't be certain those phrases had been correctly understood until perhaps you say evidence of that on the pitch.  In which case, why not just observe the change in tactics and react then?

Add in the fact that many coaches and players are not speaking in their first language it makes things even trickier.  Not so much the accent, but the choice of words may be a more literal translation from their native tongue than a more commonplace phrase we may use to make the same point.  I guess it makes filling in the blanks for missed words a bit more difficult.  The words said together aren't ones you were 'expecting' to hear so you have to work even harder to follow what is said.

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Bar BS3

Bar BS3

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Posted
11 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

I'm with the OP. For whatever reason it makes me really irritated when i see them do it. More so becasue i couldn't give a flying shite what they are saying anyway, so nevermind all this  we're so important, people are looking at us all the time bollacks.

 

I don’t think they are doing it for your benefit..! 

It’s obviously so that the opposition don’t get and clues as to what their plans are. 

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handsofclay

handsofclay

Posted
Posted

In the last baseball season I recall the Boston Red Sox being involved in a controversy where they were relaying the signs from the catcher to the pitcher about what type of pitch to hurl to the hitter before it was pitched by way of a secreted earpiece or something. The Red Sox topped their division but when it came to the playoffs for the world series, by which time they'd been sussed and had cut it out, they went out early doors rather lamely. 

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CrazyInWeston

CrazyInWeston

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, handsofclay said:

In the last baseball season I recall the Boston Red Sox being involved in a controversy where they were relaying the signs from the catcher to the pitcher about what type of pitch to hurl to the hitter before it was pitched by way of a secreted earpiece or something. The Red Sox topped their division but when it came to the playoffs for the world series, by which time they'd been sussed and had cut it out, they went out early doors rather lamely. 

How would that have happened? NO ONE stands right next to the pitcher and they communicate to catcher behind the opposing teams bat swinger by hand signals. Having said that, every player would need a hidden aid in their ear and how the hell they get someone who knows all the secret pitching hand signal codes that each opposing team has relaying such information to the bat swingers?

I just cannot see how it can be done!

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