Learning about the game

[Fiale]

Is there any good upto date material that can help people learn a little more about what is happening on the pitch (other than coaching courses). I love watching football, but am aware that I have no real idea as to what battles, tactics, thought decisions, game momentum/plans are unfolding before my eyes. I would like this year to try to get a better understanding of the game, looking around though a lot of sources seem old/poor.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

muchos gracias amigos.

[GrahamC]

Inverting the pyramid- Jonathan Wilson.

Great book at explaining the history of formations & tactics.

[wendyredredrobin]

Just watch more games. The more you watch, the more you learn. Listen to the pundits, tough some are better than others. Watching German an Spanish football can give you a different perspective too.

[CheddarReds]

Interestingly a lot of coaches at verying levels have admitted to learning more about coaching, specific and not specific to the sport, from informal sources like being coached, playing and just watching regularly rather than formal coach ed courses (albeit they can be useful). 

One way I found useful is just to think while you watch. I spoke to an opposition scout who works for Huddersfield in the summer who suggested this very basic model that might come in handy to improve your tactical knowledge: 

1) highlight basic structure and actions (e.g. Johnson's Bristol City are playing a 4-4-2 with wingers who like to come inside and play close the strikers and central midfielders)

2) consider the effects of this structure (or action/pattern of play) on the opposition and their structure. (e.g. Reading play a 3-5-2 so they're always outnumbered in wide areas so Bristol City full backs can get space and therefore get lots of crosses in)

3) consider the effects of this and the subsequent effects on different phases. (e.g. Reading went 1-0 down from a cross as an affect of the way our and their structure's interacted. As a result, Reading change to  4-4-2, or perhaps Reading decide to press to try and make us go long to our strikers where they have a 3v2 overload). 

Obviously very basic but provides an easy way to start thinking about why things are happening. 

[Lrrr]

30 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Inverting the pyramid- Jonathan Wilson.

Great book at explaining the history of formations & tactics.

Got given this today, looking forward to it 

[redsapper]

Watching the games at different levels not just the pro game can help. 

The best way is to talk to somebody with a little knowledge of what is happening on the pitch. It's like a game of chess when you know what you are looking for.

The coach needs to have the right pieces to affect the game or counter what the other coach is doing.

A coach need to have a plan of how he want the team to play and work the players into that system. Lee Johnson spent last season working with the players to get them playing the right way which is only now bearing fruit. 

Most clubs change managers before it sorts it's self out as they are looking for a short term fix. BCFC have now set up a system of buying early and improving the players and thus the team. They then will sell players for a higher value and reinvest in the team which should also be progressing up the league.

Use this forum to ask questions but you may get a lot of different answers as not two people see the game the same way. 

[ScottishRed]

Do some coaching courses.

Not that easy if you are not involved with a club - at any level - but that , mixed with the advice above should do the trick.

[ZiderEyed]

Modern Soccer Coach by Gary Curneen

One Goal: the Mindset of Winning Soccer Teams by Bill Beswick

Inverting the Pyramid is a good shout as other people have mentioned

Every autobiography by a retired ex-pro that you can get your hands on

Get to football at every single level

Get your first coaching badge, can be pricey but if you've got the money it's fantastic.

Watch the full highlights on the City website, look at the fluidity of the movement of our CMs, look at our formation as a cohesive unit and how it works together to move the ball up the pitch. Look at how players pivot around each other in order to stretch play and drag defenders out of position.

IMHO the Scandinavian leagues are fantastic to watch from a coaching perspective. Find a livestream and watch the Allsvenskan or the Eliteserien.

[chinapig]

Try http://www.zonalmarking.net

Michael Cox's book The Mixer looks promising and there is a podcast of the same name available via the site.

[Fiale]

Many thanks for the replies. Have a lot of books inbound from Amazon now    

 

 

[Maesknoll Red]

Also, when watching a game (live, it doesn’t really work on TV) pick a player to watch, rather than the ball.  You’ll then appreciate a lot more of what happens off the ball, as regards positioning, pulling players out of position, creating space, etc. etc.  Years ago when someone told me about this, I found it an interesting way to watch a game, you see things that you inevitably miss when your eyes follow the ball for 90 minutes.

[Simon79]

Play, watch & listen ( to people who know what there on about! ). COYR

[Maltshoveller]

14 hours ago, Fiale said:

Is there any good upto date material that can help people learn a little more about what is happening on the pitch (other than coaching courses). I love watching football, but am aware that I have no real idea as to what battles, tactics, thought decisions, game momentum/plans are unfolding before my eyes. I would like this year to try to get a better understanding of the game, looking around though a lot of sources seem old/poor.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

muchos gracias amigos.

A good tip for you

Dont take any notice of 99% of the posters on here!!! They know less than you

[Cowshed]

15 hours ago, Fiale said:

Is there any good upto date material that can help people learn a little more about what is happening on the pitch (other than coaching courses). I love watching football, but am aware that I have no real idea as to what battles, tactics, thought decisions, game momentum/plans are unfolding before my eyes. I would like this year to try to get a better understanding of the game, looking around though a lot of sources seem old/poor.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

muchos gracias amigos.

100% these people. Watching a clip is often more beneficial than reading. And easier to understand.

Coaching badges at levels 1 & 2 do not teach you that much about football tactics. 

 

 

 

 

[22A]

On 25/12/2017 at 22:08, wendyredredrobin said:

Just watch more games. The more you watch, the more you learn.

Sit in an upper row of a stand near the half way line. You'll then be looking down and will see more clearly the formations, how one player will cover another and how others will move to an area where they can receive a pass and move forward etc.

Sitting high up near the half way lne the game looks radically different to watching by standing (or sitting) behind a goal.

[Davefevs]

On 25/12/2017 at 21:54, Fiale said:

Is there any good upto date material that can help people learn a little more about what is happening on the pitch (other than coaching courses). I love watching football, but am aware that I have no real idea as to what battles, tactics, thought decisions, game momentum/plans are unfolding before my eyes. I would like this year to try to get a better understanding of the game, looking around though a lot of sources seem old/poor.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

muchos gracias amigos.

Welcome to the forum Darrell.

[BobBobSuperBob]

I noticed you' said you spent some part of a game watching a particular player and what he does / doesn't  / positioning / workrate etc @Fiale ( rather than following the ball / action , though in reality you can keep an eye on both)

My single top tip for enjoying and understanding a bit deeper - watching a particular player for 10-15 minutes can reveal a lot

I can always remember watching Gary Lineker for England at Wembley once and was transfixed as he continually moved across and amongst the fron line , across the width of the penalty box, continually looking to bend runs in behind the centre halfs - he must have been making or looking to make one  one every 10-15 seconds when England were in possession and would make 10/20/-30 such movements before the ball would come 

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I noticed you' said you spent some part of a game watching a particular player and what he does / doesn't  / positioning / workrate etc @Fiale ( rather than following the ball / action , though in reality you can keep an eye on both)

My single top tip for enjoying and understanding a bit deeper - watching a particular player for 10-15 minutes can reveal a lot

I can always remember watching Gary Lineker for England at Wembley once and was transfixed as he continually moved across and amongst the fron line , across the width of the penalty box, continually looking to bend runs in behind the centre halfs - he must have been making or looking to make one  one every 10-15 seconds when England were in possession and would make 10/20/-30 such movements before the ball would come 

That us what Taylor did for the first 15-20 minutes yesterday, but never got the ball.  You get a better appreciation of what a player does when he hasn’t got the ball.

Also watch games from different view-points.  I think that influences how we rate players.  I prefer watching from behind the goal (to one side), you can view movement of strikers better than from the side, where you are side-tracked by watching the ball.  When Sky used to offer you different cameras, I’d sometimes watch the whole game from the behind goal camera.

 

[Fiale]

11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I noticed you' said you spent some part of a game watching a particular player and what he does / doesn't  / positioning / workrate etc @Fiale ( rather than following the ball / action , though in reality you can keep an eye on both)

My single top tip for enjoying and understanding a bit deeper - watching a particular player for 10-15 minutes can reveal a lot

I can always remember watching Gary Lineker for England at Wembley once and was transfixed as he continually moved across and amongst the fron line , across the width of the penalty box, continually looking to bend runs in behind the centre halfs - he must have been making or looking to make one  one every 10-15 seconds when England were in possession and would make 10/20/-30 such movements before the ball would come 

 

Yes I watched Taylor a lot during the game. I think he may not have had a particularly good game as he seemed very average to be honest. Nothing really seemed to come of for him, his first touch was pretty poor, and the CB's and full backs were as quick (if not quicker) than him so he struggled a little.  He did not get much quality service (nor Reid for most of the game) and he looks for the foul a lot, once the ref wises up though it just resulted in him lying on the floor or just stood there looking towards the ref with shrugging shoulders. His pressing and making himself available though was pretty much non stop, he certainly spent a lot of energy out there trying to keep a high pressing line... think it may have just been one of those games where he could not insert himself into it as much as we like. I will check him out a little next game just to see 

 

cue a list of people saying that was all wrong 

[Bar BS3]

On 25/12/2017 at 21:54, Fiale said:

Is there any good upto date material that can help people learn a little more about what is happening on the pitch (other than coaching courses). I love watching football, but am aware that I have no real idea as to what battles, tactics, thought decisions, game momentum/plans are unfolding before my eyes. I would like this year to try to get a better understanding of the game, looking around though a lot of sources seem old/poor.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

muchos gracias amigos.

Hello Darrell, hope you had a good Christmas and your dog is “happy”. 

[ExiledAjax]

1 hour ago, 22A said:

Sit in an upper row of a stand near the half way line.

Just on this @Fiale I don't know if you've ever been in the upper Lansdown but yesterday I sat up there, I was right behind the press seats (actually just behind Gregor MacGregor).  These seat provide an exceptional view of the entire pitch - far enough away to get a holistic view of everything but close enough to see and hear the players and also to see what the dug-outs are doing.  From here you can also watch each "unit" - you can watch how the back 4 are working together, or how the left back and left wing are interplaying.

Also, it was really interesting to look over the journos' shoulders and see what they are looking for and what they are noting down, compare that to your own thoughts and learn what to watch.

As an aside - the press seats were only about a third full yesterday and there were barely any stewards up there.  Now I am not suggesting that you impersonate a journalist and head on up for the best view in the house...but I'm saying I saw a couple of lads do exactly that yesterday...

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

As an aside - the press seats were only about a third full yesterday and there were barely any stewards up there.  Now I am not suggesting that you impersonate a journalist and head on up for the best view in the house...but I'm saying I saw a couple of lads do exactly that yesterday...

Some might say that McGregor has been impersonating a journo all season 

Personally I find him fine, he’s doing a decent job bearing in mind his employer.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Some might say that McGregor has been impersonating a journo all season 

Personally I find him fine, he’s doing a decent job bearing in mind his employer.

Was interesting watching him do the minute by minute yesterday.  He def thought Pack should have been sent off and noted Taylor's missed headers but not much else about him.  Most impressive was how he knew every Reading player just as well as the City ones.  

My biggest surprise was how every Journo was just on BBC Sport and WhoScored.com. Not sure why but I always figured they had a private "journos-only" stats source - turns out they're plebs like the rest of us.

[Fiale]

 

6 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Just on this @Fiale I don't know if you've ever been in the upper Lansdown but yesterday I sat up there, I was right behind the press seats (actually just behind Gregor MacGregor).  These seat provide an exceptional view of the entire pitch - far enough away to get a holistic view of everything but close enough to see and hear the players and also to see what the dug-outs are doing.  From here you can also watch each "unit" - you can watch how the back 4 are working together, or how the left back and left wing are interplaying.

Also, it was really interesting to look over the journos' shoulders and see what they are looking for and what they are noting down, compare that to your own thoughts and learn what to watch.

As an aside - the press seats were only about a third full yesterday and there were barely any stewards up there.  Now I am not suggesting that you impersonate a journalist and head on up for the best view in the house...but I'm saying I saw a couple of lads do exactly that yesterday...

 

I did like the upper Lansdown, if season tickets were available in there I think I would have bought one.  I have been in there 3 times in the upper and the lower 2 times since the stand opened (being in the second row of seats in the lower lets you see a players eye view of the game which is nice, if not actually very helpful seeing the bigger picture :-)  .

 

I am towards the back and to the side of the SS  currently which is pretty good,.

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, Fiale said:

 

 

I did like the upper Lansdown, if season tickets were available in there I think I would have bought one.  I have been in there 3 times in the upper and the lower 2 times since the stand opened (being in the second row of seats in the lower lets you see a players eye view of the game which is nice, if not actually very helpful seeing the bigger picture :-)  .

 

I am towards the back and to the side of the SS  currently which is pretty good,.

The belief in football is that the perfect view to encompass the game is actually from a corner area (Sec 82 !) as you get the depth and width of the pitch

Not something I've personally found to be my choice but that's the theory

[wendyredredrobin]

I do agree with a point made earlier about getting a seat in a high position near the hald way line.  I really dont like watching football from behind the goal.

A high posirion does help with watching patterns, formations and movement that you cant see lower down.

What might be useful for training purposes (are you reading Lee?) woyld be to run a wire across the half way line and suspend a camera above the centre circle.  Maybe fit every player with a gps tracker would be interesting too.

[BobBobSuperBob]

5 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

I do agree with a point made earlier about getting a seat in a high position near the hald way line.  I really dont like watching football from behind the goal.

A high posirion does help with watching patterns, formations and movement that you cant see lower down.

What might be useful for training purposes (are you reading Lee?) woyld be to run a wire across the half way line and suspend a camera above the centre circle.  

Maybe fit every player with a gps tracker would be interesting too.

At the Q&A session LJ / DH and JMc explained how all the players are tracked by IIRC seven cameras (For Prozone) throughout the game to plot every movement and touch of every player

[Fiale]

22 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

The belief in football is that the perfect view to encompass the game is actually from a corner area (Sec 82 !) as you get the depth and width of the pitch

Not something I've personally found to be my choice but that's the theory

 

I am in S19 almost towards the back - it's not to bad, nice view of the big screen (could not see it last season as was at the wrong angle).

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 13:03, Cowshed said:

100% these people.

 

 

and up next was Man City.

[Olé]

On 26/12/2017 at 05:12, chinapig said:

Michael Cox's book The Mixer looks promising and there is a podcast of the same name available via the site.

+1 for The Mixer. Came out in the summer and read it while on holiday. Covers the 25 seasons of the Premier League by explaining a new innovation or tactic for each of the seasons. As well as explaining all key tactical evolutions and styles of football, it manages to wrap in tonnes of amazing facts and anecdote all the while still being completely readable as a flowing book on the evolution of football rather than a novelty/trivia compilation.

Also, instead of simply explaining the tactics (it is not a textbook, it's a supremely well written tour of the past 25 seasons) it reminds you of seismic shifts in the Premier League history that evidence key tactical changes (or points out hidden stats that prove them) so you're left completely clear which managers or players style is being referenced. It is quite easy to see a number of LJ's approaches explained and understand their origins. 

I fully expect a revised and updated version to be released on the 30th anniversary with a chapter on recent Premier League sensation Lee Johnson and the innovations of a new breed of modern English coach, perhaps highlighting the foundations laid by Eddie Howe and then Sean Dyche, before showing how Lee really reset the bar for English coaching. (This will give you an idea how the book works, the chapter on Sam Allardyce is excellent).