Players leaving

[LondonBristolian]

For the first time in the club’s history, I really think the club is in the driving seat. I am not so foolish as to say I do not think we will sell under any circumstances but we have - or are in the process of getting - all our players tied to contracts and I am pretty sure the board know both what we will sell for and how we would replace any players we sold.

 

I do not see anyone substantial leaving in January. Flint’s value must have increased and ultimately player sales can only take place when the amount a club is willing to pay is equal to or greater than what the club is willing to accept. I think we are in a strong enough position to demand silly money but I don’t think clubs will want to pay silly money because, as has been said elsewhere in the thread, in January clubs tend to go for proven talent.

But, if clubs do want to pay over the odds for our players and it is worth our while to accept that, players will leave and we will replace them. I hope it does not come to that but arguably our stars of our last five seasons have been:

2012/2013 Heaton

2013/2014 Baldock

2014/2015 Freeman

2015/2016 Kodjia 

2016/2017 Abraham

All those players left. We replaced them and were arguably no worse for it. If we are to move on as a club, we have to get past the point where players can hold the club to ransom through a fear of losing them. I think we are succeeding.

 

[bengalcub]

Have a Cheltenham connection who has said Moore isn’t really cutting it there , strange one hoe he smashes it second half of the season ... 

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Bit disappointing that he can’t come back here in January and get some match day 18 experience with us, but hey-ho.  The CTFC fans think Morrell will also extend.

Agree and think the 2 situations are very different.

Joe Morrell had absolutely no FL experience at all before joining Cheltenham on loan, whereas Moore has now played 40+ games in his two loan spells (there & at Bury).

With Pisano likely to be out for quite a while longer and Baker struggling, I would have got him back into the squad for the next 4 months myself.

I can't think of another signing who has been sent on loan for a season and a half, so you do start to wonder if he is really seen as having any future with us..

[Roadrunner]

3 hours ago, bengalcub said:

So Southampton sell vvd for £75 mill and offer £25 for flint and Bryan there gone ...peanuts to Southampton and screws our season up ..

I was thinking the same, but only about Flint.

[A Horse With No Name]

Would it be against any regulations for SL to offer a massive bonus for promotion now, or would it have to written into their current contract. Might convince one or two to stay if an offer comes in. 

[Betty Swallocks]

3 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Vvd is pony only reason Liverpool want to buy is a lack of obtainable cb’s in the prem Johnny Evans £30 mill behave ... the money’s thrown around like anything ....

Waffle, waffle, waffle, waffle.....

[Phileas Fogg]

56 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Agree and think the 2 situations are very different.

Joe Morrell had absolutely no FL experience at all before joining Cheltenham on loan, whereas Moore has now played 40+ games in his two loan spells (there & at Bury).

With Pisano likely to be out for quite a while longer and Baker struggling, I would have got him back into the squad for the next 4 months myself.

I can't think of another signing who has been sent on loan for a season and a half, so you do start to wonder if he is really seen as having any future with us..

Seems prudent to have him around the squad unless we’ve got a right back signed to be announced on Jan 1st.

[LondonBristolian]

3 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Vvd is pony only reason Liverpool want to buy is a lack of obtainable cb’s in the prem Johnny Evans £30 mill behave ... the money’s thrown around like anything ....

Not an opinion that is born out by evidence and I suspect not one that anyone involved in professional football at any capacity would agree with. He has been going through the motions this season and it is certainly a valid discussion as to whether he is worth £75 million but he has proved in the seasons before that that he is an exceptional centre-back.

Absolutely baffling why some football fans feel they know more than people involved in the professional game and are qualified to declare a player they presumably rarely watch in person as being rubbish despite all evidence being to the contrary....

[reformed_red]

I would be gutted if any of the first team players were to leave.

But from what I've seen develop over the past 18 months, I've got every confidence that we could / would replace with better (or potential to be better). I really think something special is happening at this football club, and no one (or two) players are bigger than that.

 

 

 

 

 

Apart from Joe Bryan. Who is basically God.

[bcdc]

Anyway, how many Championship players get taken on by existing Prem clubs?  Very, very few, and even fewer by really established clubs. Even Bengalcub's examples are all Prem to Prem moves.  We are used to focusing on Joey, Bobby and the rest, but I reckon they are little more than up-and-comers to be monitored.  Like may others, I reckon if they go it'll be in the summer, and to Watford, Newcastle or some such, not So'ton or above.

 

 

 

 

Cue bid by The Arse.....

[ScottishRed]

1 hour ago, The Horse With No Name said:

Would it be against any regulations for SL to offer a massive bonus for promotion now, or would it have to written into their current contract. Might convince one or two to stay if an offer comes in. 

Nope, the club would simply have to offer a contract variation that when signed by the player is registered with the league. No different to extending a contract and does not need to be in a 'window'.

That said I would be surprised if a promotion bonus did not already exist in their contracts , or a bonus 'pot' for promotion was already in existence for the squad that was paid out on the basis of games played should we get up.

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Nope, the club would simply have to offer a contract variation that when signed by the player is registered with the league. No different to extending a contract and does not need to be in a 'window'.

That said I would be surprised if a promotion bonus did not already exist in their contracts , or a bonus 'pot' for promotion was already in existence for the squad that was paid out on the basis of games played should we get up.

You can bet your life a relegation clause does so the other should too.

[Alex_BCFC]

No one will go in the window. Joe Bryan won't be here next season unless we go up though. 

[wendyredredrobin]

None of our players need to use us as a stepping stone.  They will have the opportunity here to compete for European football next season (if we dont win the FL Cup and earn it this season).

None of our players is worth as little as £5m in todays market.

Nobody needs to prove themself at a higher level, they have beaten 4 prem teams including Manchester United already.

We are not in a position where we either want or need to sell.

None of our players is going anywhere and Bobby will sign a new contract.

We are going up. COYR

[CrazyInWeston]

5 hours ago, RumRed said:

Someone is as bored as me stuck in the office with a few mouldy mince pies OTIB on one screen and Netflix on the other.

5 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Funnily enough replace office for being at home and get rid of mince pies and that sums me up too

5 hours ago, RumRed said:

:laugh:, at least at home you have a duvet.

Same for me as well in the sense I'm at home, I have my PC hooked up to the big screen (my 49" TV - I dont have a PC monitor I use the TV), Netflix and OTIB up, snuggling up on the sofa in a sleeping bag with a can of Thatchers in my hand. 

[Ivorguy]

Anyone planning to leave now would be rather foolish.  If we go up they go up.  If we remain in this division they will still get offers, maybe better ones even in the summer.

[OldlandReddies]

7 hours ago, bengalcub said:

So a Burnley , West Brom , stoke , Everton, West Ham  come in offering prem footy 4 year deals and triple wages .....

We would tell them to **** off and come back in summer if we aint promoted.

[OldlandReddies]

7 hours ago, palmerred said:

Manchester City, Manchester UTD, Barcelona, Real Madrid, PSG. 

Neymar

[WestonRobin]

10 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

Neymar

Price I up a chicken hutch!

It’s what comes to mind every time I see or hear Neymar.

[Rocking Red Cyril]

20 hours ago, palmerred said:

25m for both is rejectable. 

yes £ 25 mill each

[cityboy]

21 hours ago, bengalcub said:

So Southampton sell vvd for £75 mill and offer £25 for flint and Bryan there gone ...peanuts to Southampton and screws our season up ..

Bryan is a £30m player on his own right now. Young and English adds £££ to his value. I can see him going to Everton in the summer as Baines' long term replacement.

[Davefevs]

17 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

Nope, the club would simply have to offer a contract variation that when signed by the player is registered with the league. No different to extending a contract and does not need to be in a 'window'.

That said I would be surprised if a promotion bonus did not already exist in their contracts , or a bonus 'pot' for promotion was already in existence for the squad that was paid out on the basis of games played should we get up.

As I understand a player’s individual contract can contain various clauses, e.g. promo, relegation etc.  I also understand a bonus pot can be agreed at the start of the season that usually contains a sum to be divvied up between the players based on appearances and progress in competitions.  It cannot be altered during the season.  Remember WBA player’s threatening to go a strike some seasons ago as they couldn’t agree that season’s bonus scheme.

[bengalcub]

Bryan ain’t a £30 mill player maybe £15 mill and if that gets offered he will be gone .

[cheshire_red]

January is a long month towards the end we could be out of the top 6 and both cups or we could be strongly in second. I expect us to be out of both cups though.

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Bryan ain’t a £30 mill player maybe £15 mill and if that gets offered he will be gone .

Sadly I think you are right. I just hope that no prem club is prepared to take a £15m punt on a championship player in January, particularly one that could go down themselves. In the summer though it will be a different story - the only way he`s going to be playing for us next season is if we go up IMO.

[Phileas Fogg]

2 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Bryan ain’t a £30 mill player maybe £15 mill and if that gets offered he will be gone .

Value has become a very construed concept now - but perhaps more than ever, the 'worth' of a player is determined largely by a few factors

A) His worth to the selling club

B) The cost of replacing him

C) Market forces and the price of similar ability/age/position players

I would say at this moment in time, Joe Bryan would be very difficult to replace. I can't think of any attainable players who can play left back, left midfield or even centre midfield as well as he can for us. That's before you factor in his age and the understanding with other teammates which is highly important.

He'd be very difficult to replace - especially for good value.

I think people incorrectly see the price of players as similar to a piece of art or a smartphone - 'Van Dijk/Pogba/Neymar isn't worth £X Million' - and that you can determine their worth with almost a formula in a similar way to Fifa. That's not the case.

When you think we could be as little as 5 months from a potential promotion - our key players become almost priceless. Not because they are the best players in the world, but because of the potential bigger negative effect their departure might cause.

 

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Value has become a very construed concept now - but perhaps more than ever, the 'worth' of a player is worth a few things

A) His worth to the selling club

B) The cost of replacing him

C) Market forces and the price of similar ability/age/position players

I would say at this moment in time, Joe Bryan would be very difficult to replace. I can't think of many attainable players who can play left back, left midfield or even centre midfield. That's before you factor in his age and the understanding with other teammates.

He'd be very difficult to replace - especially for good value.

I think people incorrectly see the price of players as similar to a piece of art or a smartphone - 'Van Dijk/Pogba/Neymar isn't worth £X Million' - and that you can determine their worth with almost a formula in a similar way to Fifa. That's not the case.

When you think we could be as little as 5 months from a potential promotion - our key players become almost priceless. Not because they are the best players in the world, but because of the potential bigger negative effect their departure might cause.

 

Bang on. Joe Bryan could have helped earn us over a hundred million if we go up. He won't go in January.

[Phileas Fogg]

5 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Bang on. Joe Bryan could have helped earn us over a hundred million if we go up. He won't go in January.

I genuinely think he'd accept a reasonable compromise such as 'stay with us until the end of the season, and if we don't go up - we'll accept any offer that matches our valuation'.

I'm sure as an academy graduate he'd love to get us promoted and play in the Prem with us. What a chance to do it - might not happen again for years. 

Unless the offer is something genuinely silly which we can't turn down I don't imagine he'll leave in Jan.

[chinapig]

16 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Value has become a very construed concept now - but perhaps more than ever, the 'worth' of a player is determined largely by a few factors

A) His worth to the selling club

B) The cost of replacing him

C) Market forces and the price of similar ability/age/position players

I would say at this moment in time, Joe Bryan would be very difficult to replace. I can't think of any attainable players who can play left back, left midfield or even centre midfield as well as he can for us. That's before you factor in his age and the understanding with other teammates which is highly important.

He'd be very difficult to replace - especially for good value.

I think people incorrectly see the price of players as similar to a piece of art or a smartphone - 'Van Dijk/Pogba/Neymar isn't worth £X Million' - and that you can determine their worth with almost a formula in a similar way to Fifa. That's not the case.

When you think we could be as little as 5 months from a potential promotion - our key players become almost priceless. Not because they are the best players in the world, but because of the potential bigger negative effect their departure might cause.

 

Another factor is the premium usually associated with buying a player from the Championship, or the EFL in general, as opposed to buying from most European leagues. Indeed this is a factor we take into account in our own recruitment.

For clubs likely to be playing in European competition there is an additional premium on English players due to the requirement to have a certain number in your squad.

Jose Bryano is likely to be cheaper than Joe Bryan so to speak, which is why there are plenty of players in the Championship who could otherwise cut the mustard in the Prem and why the risk of losing our key players is less than it might seem.

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Another factor is the premium usually associated with buying a player from the Championship, or the EFL in general, as opposed to buying from most European leagues. Indeed this is a factor we take into account in our own recruitment.

For clubs likely to be playing in European competition there is an additional premium on English players due to the requirement to have a certain number in your squad.

Jose Bryano is likely to be cheaper than Joe Bryan so to speak, which is why there are plenty of players in the Championship who could otherwise cut the mustard in the Prem and why the risk of losing our key players is less than it might seem.

Good point, I imagine if we did sell Bryan this January - his replacement may come from abroad because there'd be very little value in finding a domestic ready built replacement.