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Johnson Vs Stam


PistolPeteRFC

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As most championship fans know (and football fans now know- congratulations!) Johnson has turned BCFC around in a year after a terrible run. At Reading, we’re struggling big time after our great finish last season. As you can imagine, many fans want him out, but a few point to what’s going on at your club as an example of what can happen when you keep faith. 

 

So, what has changed? (And is there therefore still hope for Stam at Reading?!)

 

Thanks guys, and good luck for the rest of the season 

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I would say that, last season, he and the players got Reading into a position in which they were possibly punching slightly above their weight. So there must be something of substance there. Not really up to speed with the strengths and weaknesses of your current squad but, as ZiderEyed stated, it sometimes is really just a case of one or two players out and one or two in. Have always been impressed with Stam's reading of the game and demeanour when interviewed. I hope your board shows some faith in him.

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8 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Bump.

Bad eggs at the club really. Got rid of Tomlin and LJ started picking players he could trust. We've got an identity now and thats the important thing. Keep the faith mate.

From what I've seen of Reading fans on Twitter, they have a clear identity under Stam. It's just not overly entertaining/attacking/positive.

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1 minute ago, View from the Dolman said:

From what I've seen of Reading fans on Twitter, they have a clear identity under Stam. It's just not overly entertaining/attacking/positive.

Realised that the minute I posted this tbh.

Maybe its personnel, maybe its coaching.

Don't think I'll ever be hasty in wanting to get a manager out again.

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Johnson's system involves pressing high without the ball, then breaking fast with one/two touch football with it. This only works if the whole team buy in to it, for the first two thirds of last season they probably had doubts not helped by bad eggs (Tomlin), now they believe and it is that confidence which is driving us forward.

Bit like a kid learning to ride a bike, at first they wobble because they are worried about falling off, then they get it and they are off , don't even think about it again.

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It was interesting what Johnson said in a recent interview, which is that the main work they did over the summer was not around transfers but around working with players to agree and take ownership of expectations and rules within the club. Personally I think what separates successful clubs from unsuccessful clubs is the culture. If you can get players taking responsibility and wanting to work harder in the expectation everyone else will too, you can get brilliant results.

 

Conversely, I think sometimes, even if you get it right in the first season, standards can slip and that affects performance. I think Stam could turn it round at Reading IF he has the insight and ability to understand what the problems are. Ultimately I suspect why LJ kept his job was that he could articulate to the board what wasn't working, what needed to change to start getting results and why he was the right person to do that. If Stam can do the same, Reading have a chance. But if you have a manager who does not have an insight into what isn't working, it is impossible for them to fix it. 

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2 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

From what I've seen of Reading fans on Twitter, they have a clear identity under Stam. It's just not overly entertaining/attacking/positive.

And the same could have been said about us reading our fans comments on Twitter a year ago.

It felt a little lonely on here last season in not wanting Johnson out.  There were a small number of us advocating stability but many, very understandably, wanted a change. (In fairness the bulk of the vitriol was on social media rather than here).  I was willing to give him until Christmas, even if that meant relegation, just to see if trying to keep faith with a manager worked better than the hire 'em fire 'em approach of modern football which has seen us yo yo for a number of years.

There's a lot to be said for the "DNA" approach that we've taken.  It's seen us get rid of people that simply didn't fit with what we were trying to do or were just almost deliberately disruptive in the dressing room.  And the players that we've brought in have had to pass the "DNA test" to make sure they would integrate well as well as just being good players.  This approach has seen us build a team full of togetherness and ability.  I strongly believe that having the right personalities in the squad carried us through as far as the Villa game before the legs finally went.  Without the right people I firmly believe we'd have succumbed to our injury list about 6 weeks before we actually did.

I'd like to see more teams try the stability approach that we did and prove it to work.  But it takes a very brave owner to stand firm when it looks like things are crumbling.

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Part of the reason for our improvement is that the players and staff all seem to like and get on with each other. The entire squad all seem to be a unified team. We only bring into that team people who conform to an agreed character profile (or DNA as it's popularly called!)

It's probably unfair to lay all of the blame at Tomlin's door, but it won't stop me; one rotten apple will ruin all of the rest of the fruit in a barrel and Tomlin seemed to have that effect on us. When he left for the Taffs, there were very few of his teammates who chose to send well wishes to him via social media; quite the contrary, there seemed to be a collective sigh of relief from all around the club. When Cardiff played us at AG earlier in the season, they seemed surprised when their "Tomlin was red, now he's a blue" chant was greeted with laughter and applause! I sense they now know why.

If Stam has people in his playing or coaching staff who have a negative effect on others then he should ship them out. If Stam is the one having that effect, he should be given the elbow. Otherwise, give him the chance to succeed and deliver the benefits of the strategy he would have put across to your Board when he was interviewed.

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3 minutes ago, Rudolf Hucker said:

Part of the reason for our improvement is that the players and staff all seem to like and get on with each other. The entire squad all seem to be a unified team. We only bring into that team people who conform to an agreed character profile (or DNA as it's popularly called!)

It's probably unfair to lay all of the blame at Tomlin's door, but it won't stop me; one rotten apple will ruin all of the rest of the fruit in a barrel and Tomlin seemed to have that effect on us. When he left for the Taffs, there were very few of his teammates who chose to send well wishes to him via social media; quite the contrary, there seemed to be a collective sigh of relief from all around the club. When Cardiff played us at AG earlier in the season, they seemed surprised when their "Tomlin was red, now he's a blue" chant was greeted with laughter and applause! I sense they now know why.

If Stam has people in his playing or coaching staff who have a negative effect on others then he should ship them out. If Stam is the one having that effect, he should be given the elbow. Otherwise, give him the chance to succeed and deliver the benefits of the strategy he would have put across to your Board when he was interviewed.

I got this book for Christmas. Still quite early in reading it but the basic thrust is the ability of one person to drag down the ethos and culture of a whole environment, which I'm sure we can all relate to and may well have been the case here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Asshole-Survival-Guide-People-Treat/dp/0241298997

At the same time, I don't think it was simply about Tomlin. Whilst I do not in any sense "blame" or want to criticise John Pemberton, our improvement did seem to coincide with him moving on. This does make me wonder if - and I have no reason to know if this was the case - another part of the issue was having people on the coaching staff who did not buy into the manager's ideas and this affecting the ability to get a consistent message across. I really appreciate what Pemberton did for us, particularly in kick-starting our survival after Cotts left, but ultimately I think it is important that everyone in a senior position at the club sings from the same hymn sheet. 

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2 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I got this book for Christmas. Still quite early in reading it but the basic thrust is the ability of one person to drag down the ethos and culture of a whole environment, which I'm sure we can all relate to and may well have been the case here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Asshole-Survival-Guide-People-Treat/dp/0241298997

At the same time, I don't think it was simply about Tomlin. Whilst I do not in any sense "blame" or want to criticise John Pemberton, our improvement did seem to coincide with him moving on. This does make me wonder if - and I have no reason to know if this was the case - another part of the issue was having people on the coaching staff who did not buy into the manager's ideas and this affecting the ability to get a consistent message across. I really appreciate what Pemberton did for us, particularly in kick-starting our survival after Cotts left, but ultimately I think it is important that everyone in a senior position at the club sings from the same hymn sheet. 

I agree with you about Pembo but prefer to blame Tomlin!

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44 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Realised that the minute I posted this tbh.

Maybe its personnel, maybe its coaching.

Don't think I'll ever be hasty in wanting to get a manager out again.

In fairness I don't think most of us were ' hasty ' in wanting a change .

We were in nose dive and a record breaking losing streak . 

The few ' don't want Johnson here at all ' posters seem to have largely disappeared.

 

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On ‎10‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 15:58, PistolPeteRFC said:

As most championship fans know (and football fans now know- congratulations!) Johnson has turned BCFC around in a year after a terrible run. At Reading, we’re struggling big time after our great finish last season. As you can imagine, many fans want him out, but a few point to what’s going on at your club as an example of what can happen when you keep faith. 

 

So, what has changed? (And is there therefore still hope for Stam at Reading?!)

 

Thanks guys, and good luck for the rest of the season 

Reading always seem a forward thinking club to me so it wouldn`t surprise me if your board decide to ride it out as we did. I like Stam, he tells it like it is and doesn`t seem to make a lot of excuses and he seems a thoughtful chap so I`m sure he can see what`s wrong.

I was a Johnson `keeper` last season right up until the Preston debacle when I did begin to waver but I`m mighty glad our owner stuck with him now.

I believe it`s the way forward for modern clubs. We`ve had a hundred years of hiring and firing on a whim and it hasn`t worked so why not try something different - even if it sometimes means taking what looks like a step backwards to take several forwards.

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8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

In fairness I don't think most of us were ' hasty ' in wanting a change .

We were in nose dive and a record breaking losing streak . 

The few ' don't want Johnson here at all ' posters seem to have largely disappeared.

 

Oh rest assured they're still lurking my friend!

Just wait and see what happens if we drop out of the top six.

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Lee Johnson asked for three transfer windows when he was appointed - surviving the pressure of last season gave him that chance.

Significant changes since January 2017:

  • Tomlin sold to Cardiff in summer 2017
  • Nathan Baker (who had been excellent on loan for us in 15/16) transferred from Villa in summer 2017
  • Paterson, O'Dowda and Brownhill who were all bought during the difficult 16/17 season have been coached into extremely effective players in 17/18
  • Korey Smith (previously brilliant) had suffered with injuries for many years but has found his old form during 17/18
  • Tammy Abraham went back to Chelsea forcing the team to look at other players to contribute goals - Bobby Reid more than willing to step-up to the challenge
  • Recruited a strong no. 2 goalie in Luke Steele
  • Released coach John Pemberton and promoted Jamie McAllister.  Recruited Dean Holden.

So, my main point is although the team is largely the same as last season, some of the subtle changes above seem to have made the difference.  Team spirit is as high as I can remember it and as other posters say above, all of the squad now seem to buy into the idea that this is the way we play football.

I watched Reading home and away last season and I thought they were particularly effective at Ashton Gate.  When they were two goals behind, relentless pressure completely turned the game around and the rest was history.  If I was a Royals fan, I would be looking out for the little signs of trouble/discontent as that seemed to be an undercurrent of much of last season (Lee Tomlin).  Someone like Stam should have the authority and knowledge to turn it around if he is allowed to shift a few players in and out.

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1 minute ago, Xiled said:

 

Significant changes since January 2017:

  • Tomlin sold to Cardiff in summer 2017
  • Nathan Baker (who had been excellent on loan for us in 15/16) transferred from Villa in summer 2017
  • Paterson, O'Dowda and Brownhill who were all bought during the difficult 16/17 season have been coached into extremely effective players in 17/18
  • Korey Smith (previously brilliant) had suffered with injuries for many years but has found his old form during 17/18
  • Tammy Abraham went back to Chelsea forcing the team to look at other players to contribute goals - Bobby Reid more than willing to step-up to the challenge
  • Recruited a strong no. 2 goalie in Luke Steele
  • Released coach John Pemberton and promoted Jamie McAllister.  Recruited Dean Holden.

 

+Little+Wilbraham

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1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

Bump.

Bad eggs at the club really. Got rid of Tomlin and LJ started picking players he could trust. We've got an identity now and thats the important thing. Keep the faith mate.

Crazy to think Pato could barely get near our team last season until the last 10 games or so! Easily one of our most crucial players now. 

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6 minutes ago, BITW said:

Crazy to think Pato could barely get near our team last season until the last 10 games or so! Easily one of our most crucial players now. 

And the improvement in Joe is awesome! I`m sure he would admit himself that he had a mediocre season but to look at him now it just goes to show that something good is happening.

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5 hours ago, Xiled said:

Lee Johnson asked for three transfer windows when he was appointed - surviving the pressure of last season gave him that chance.

Significant changes since January 2017:

  • Tomlin sold to Cardiff in summer 2017
  • Nathan Baker (who had been excellent on loan for us in 15/16) transferred from Villa in summer 2017
  • Paterson, O'Dowda and Brownhill who were all bought during the difficult 16/17 season have been coached into extremely effective players in 17/18
  • Korey Smith (previously brilliant) had suffered with injuries for many years but has found his old form during 17/18
  • Tammy Abraham went back to Chelsea forcing the team to look at other players to contribute goals - Bobby Reid more than willing to step-up to the challenge
  • Recruited a strong no. 2 goalie in Luke Steele
  • Released coach John Pemberton and promoted Jamie McAllister.  Recruited Dean Holden.

So, my main point is although the team is largely the same as last season, some of the subtle changes above seem to have made the difference.  Team spirit is as high as I can remember it and as other posters say above, all of the squad now seem to buy into the idea that this is the way we play football.

I watched Reading home and away last season and I thought they were particularly effective at Ashton Gate.  When they were two goals behind, relentless pressure completely turned the game around and the rest was history.  If I was a Royals fan, I would be looking out for the little signs of trouble/discontent as that seemed to be an undercurrent of much of last season (Lee Tomlin).  Someone like Stam should have the authority and knowledge to turn it around if he is allowed to shift a few players in and out.

Good post :clap:

Re Reading, I’ve said it before, but Danny Williams going to Huddersfield, was a mahosive loss to them.  They are still a good footballing side, but they lack a pest in the midfield. He was that pest.

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6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Good post :clap:

Re Reading, I’ve said it before, but Danny Williams going to Huddersfield, was a mahosive loss to them.  They are still a good footballing side, but they lack a pest in the midfield. He was that pest.

And a goal scorer - if the board were the back him and go and get a good championship striker I reckon they would easily push up the table. Have some good little played - particularly like Liam Kelly for them and Aluko is always a nuisance.

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6 hours ago, Xiled said:

Lee Johnson asked for three transfer windows when he was appointed - surviving the pressure of last season gave him that chance.

Significant changes since January 2017:

  • Tomlin sold to Cardiff in summer 2017
  • Nathan Baker (who had been excellent on loan for us in 15/16) transferred from Villa in summer 2017
  • Paterson, O'Dowda and Brownhill who were all bought during the difficult 16/17 season have been coached into extremely effective players in 17/18
  • Korey Smith (previously brilliant) had suffered with injuries for many years but has found his old form during 17/18
  • Tammy Abraham went back to Chelsea forcing the team to look at other players to contribute goals - Bobby Reid more than willing to step-up to the challenge
  • Recruited a strong no. 2 goalie in Luke Steele
  • Released coach John Pemberton and promoted Jamie McAllister.  Recruited Dean Holden.

So, my main point is although the team is largely the same as last season, some of the subtle changes above seem to have made the difference.  Team spirit is as high as I can remember it and as other posters say above, all of the squad now seem to buy into the idea that this is the way we play football.

I watched Reading home and away last season and I thought they were particularly effective at Ashton Gate.  When they were two goals behind, relentless pressure completely turned the game around and the rest was history.  If I was a Royals fan, I would be looking out for the little signs of trouble/discontent as that seemed to be an undercurrent of much of last season (Lee Tomlin).  Someone like Stam should have the authority and knowledge to turn it around if he is allowed to shift a few players in and out.

I'd also add the signing and integration of Bailey Wright. Firstly, once settled he helped us consolidate in partnership with Flint and this season has willingly taken on a less familiar role of RB despite being the captain and possibly in his right to expect to be played in his favoured position. I'm sure that winning Aussie mentality helps too.

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7 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

It was interesting what Johnson said in a recent interview, which is that the main work they did over the summer was not around transfers but around working with players to agree and take ownership of expectations and rules within the club.

This is a great point. One of I have bought up on previous occasions (big myself up!!). If you get things right off the pitch, then a substantial part of getting it right on it has been taken care of.  By his own admission LJ was unable to get his point across at the start of last season.  His expectations, code of conduct, responsibility both to yourselves and the team wasn't communicated correctly.   This I think was why Pembo was released.  It was probably a case of old school v new school.  If you have LJ banging his drum and Pembo pulling a different direction then it wont work.  It didnt.  Add Tomlin in the mix for good measure.  You have a disjointed lopsided team that cant uphold the standards expected by the manager.

This group of players have had a massive maturity upgrade.  They all have come on leaps and bounds.  The coaching has been the biggest improvement for me.  Pack, Flint, Smith, Fielding, Bryan, Reid etc were all great league 1 players.  Now in two seasons, they are top Championship players.

I honestly love this group of players, from the the charity work to the running through brick walls for each other.

The hardest thing might be keeping them all together.

I will make one more point. The UEFA coaching course that LJ went on the with the wolves manger, must have had a good teacher.  I like the way both managers try to play the game.  They are very much cut from the same cloth and a blue print for young managers going forward.  Believing in your philosophy and recruiting, intelligent disciplined to play within it.

Stevo

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7 hours ago, Xiled said:

Lee Johnson asked for three transfer windows when he was appointed - surviving the pressure of last season gave him that chance.

Significant changes since January 2017:

  • Tomlin sold to Cardiff in summer 2017
  • Nathan Baker (who had been excellent on loan for us in 15/16) transferred from Villa in summer 2017
  • Paterson, O'Dowda and Brownhill who were all bought during the difficult 16/17 season have been coached into extremely effective players in 17/18
  • Korey Smith (previously brilliant) had suffered with injuries for many years but has found his old form during 17/18
  • Tammy Abraham went back to Chelsea forcing the team to look at other players to contribute goals - Bobby Reid more than willing to step-up to the challenge
  • Recruited a strong no. 2 goalie in Luke Steele
  • Released coach John Pemberton and promoted Jamie McAllister.  Recruited Dean Holden.

So, my main point is although the team is largely the same as last season, some of the subtle changes above seem to have made the difference.  Team spirit is as high as I can remember it and as other posters say above, all of the squad now seem to buy into the idea that this is the way we play football.

I watched Reading home and away last season and I thought they were particularly effective at Ashton Gate.  When they were two goals behind, relentless pressure completely turned the game around and the rest was history.  If I was a Royals fan, I would be looking out for the little signs of trouble/discontent as that seemed to be an undercurrent of much of last season (Lee Tomlin).  Someone like Stam should have the authority and knowledge to turn it around if he is allowed to shift a few players in and out.

Just to add to this.

Last season there were many times where our players were in fantastic positions to have a shot, but instead tried to pass to Tammy for whatever reason.

Tomlin seemed to demand everything went through him, but why we insisted on Tammy having all the other shots is unclear and something we don't do now. We are seeing more players having a go and as a result goals from all around the team.

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34 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Just to add to this.

Last season there were many times where our players were in fantastic positions to have a shot, but instead tried to pass to Tammy for whatever reason.

Tomlin seemed to demand everything went through him, but why we insisted on Tammy having all the other shots is unclear and something we don't do now. We are seeing more players having a go and as a result goals from all around the team.

I think it was partly everything going through Tammy, and him somehow being seen as "our saviour" (remember all of last year's national media interest in the club wasn't actually about the team, it was pretty much all about Tammy), and largely a lack of confidence.

Confidenf players take chances that unconfident ones let slip away. They back themselves. This is also reflected in the finding that in all 3 of our most successful seasons in the past 10 years (2007-8, 2014-15, and this season) the goals have been spread through the team, with many different players getting on the scoresheet.

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3 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Just to add to this.

Last season there were many times where our players were in fantastic positions to have a shot, but instead tried to pass to Tammy for whatever reason.

Tomlin seemed to demand everything went through him, but why we insisted on Tammy having all the other shots is unclear and something we don't do now. We are seeing more players having a go and as a result goals from all around the team.

With the exception of Korey!

Notwithstanding the winning goal against Manchester United, he seems almost afraid to shoot.

Why? He proved long ago against Cheltenham that he can both shoot and score, so why does he not attempt this more often?

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