There is a problem

[Dr Balls]

As is so often on here, after today's game the forum's contributors seem to be splitting into the glass half full & glass half empty camps.

But the reality is that we have lost at home again to a physical, well organised team who press higher up the pitch as per Preston. Nothing special and had been on a bad run but come with a plan & go away with 3 points.To a degree, I think we have been "found out". Millwall at home early in the season was very similar. We don't have any physical presence upfront with an isolated Bobby Reid, and although we played lots of nice stuff in midfield, we really didn't do much in the penalty box, while our shots from outside the box, with the exception of Brownhill's effort, were never going to trouble a half decent goalkeeper. To be fair even LJ seems to have said as much in his post-match interview.

We need a striker ASAP & clearly Matty Taylor isn't going to score in this league any time soon. Nor does anyone think Cauley Woodrow is going to do the business, while Engvall can't even get on the bench. I am not sure that we can wait on Djuric or Diedhiou coming back from injury & immediately being up for it. That could be weeks away. We need someone now. Someone mentioned Lewis Grabban today. Anyone who can score 12 goals in 19 games this season for Sunderland must have something to offer at this level. If his loan at Sunderland is up, he would certainly seem to be an option.

Also much though I like Joe Bryan a lot, I wish LJ would stop playing him at left back. I admit he had little cover in front of him at times, but the amounts of space given to their No 2. Pinto today was shocking. And unlike when he plays in midfield & stays out wide, at left back Joe keeps drifting closer to the centre back, and doesn't close down out wide. Keep Magnússon at left back & Joe in left midfield. Certainly if we want to retain our shape against Derby that would appear to be the best option.

As for Walsh & Kent next week, I would limit them both to short cameos from the subs bench. I thought this week was a "must not lose" game, but lose at Derby on Friday & all chance of an automatic spot will be gone already at this stage of the season.

[ashton_fan]

3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

As is so often on here, after today's game the forum's contributors seem to be splitting into the glass half full & glass half empty camps.

But the reality is that we have lost at home again to a physical, well organised team who press higher up the pitch as per Preston. Nothing special and had been on a bad run but come with a plan & go away with 3 points.To a degree, I think we have been "found out". Millwall at home early in the season was very similar. We don't have any physical presence upfront with an isolated Bobby Reid, and although we played lots of nice stuff in midfield, we really didn't do much in the penalty box, while our shots from outside the box, with the exception of Brownhill's effort, were never going to trouble a half decent goalkeeper. To be fair even LJ seems to have said as much in his post-match interview.

We need a striker ASAP & clearly Matty Taylor isn't going to score in this league any time soon. Nor does anyone think Cauley Woodrow is going to do the business, while Engvall can't even get on the bench. I am not sure that we can wait on Djuric or Diedhiou coming back from injury & immediately being up for it. That could be weeks away. We need someone now. Someone mentioned Lewis Grabban today. Anyone who can score 12 goals in 19 games this season for Sunderland must have something to offer at this level. If his loan at Sunderland is up, he would certainly seem to be an option.

Also much though I like Joe Bryan a lot, I wish LJ would stop playing him at left back. I admit he had little cover in front of him at times, but the amounts of space given to their No 2. Pinto today was shocking. And unlike when he plays in midfield & stays out wide, at left back Joe keeps drifting closer to the centre back, and doesn't close down out wide. Keep Magnússon at left back & Joe in left midfield. Certainly if we want to retain our shape against Derby that would appear to be the best option.

As for Walsh & Kent next week, I would limit them both to short cameos from the subs bench. I thought this week was a "must not lose" game, but lose at Derby on Friday & all chance of an automatic spot will be gone already at this stage of the season.

So we buy Grabban for £8m to cover the 3 or 4 weeks until Diedhiou is available then Djuric a couple of weeks later when only one of them will get in the side max? Doesn't make sense. Also if we lose at Derby it's not all over for second, still plenty of games left.

Personally I think we'll finish 4th or 5th which will still be a good season with a chance of promotion. We are paying the price of our cup run but who on here would rather we hadn't had it?

[Alex_BCFC]

They aren't on a bad run but yes Matty Taylor ain't any good. We are desperate for our two decent striker so to come back. 

[ZiderEyed]

On what I've seen Joe Bryan isn't a left back. He's much, MUCH more effective at left mid and Magnússon is growing in to that role nicely with LK as a deputy. 

I wonder how long it'll be before Garita is given a crack of the whip. I know he's a bit of a meme but I really think we need someone with a bit of presence up top against sides like that. Seems to be more of a target man type, stronger and more capable in the air. Just a thought.

Think Taylor might be off in the summer. Would love for him to kick on and do the business in the tail end of the season but I think it's better for all parties if he moves on based on recent performances.

[INCRED]

And the 20k there today could see it is blindingly obvious

[Dr Balls]

18 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

So we buy Grabban for £8m to cover the 3 or 4 weeks until Diedhiou is available then Djuric a couple of weeks later when only one of them will get in the side max? Doesn't make sense. Also if we lose at Derby it's not all over for second, still plenty of games left.

Personally I think we'll finish 4th or 5th which will still be a good season with a chance of promotion. We are paying the price of our cup run but who on here would rather we hadn't had it?

We might be paying the price for our cup run, but I think it's more fundamental than that. We aren't good enough to break down a determined, organised, physical team that pressurises and looks to play on the break against & we don't seem to have a plan B other than putting Flint up front, which for 10 minutes at the end when we are desperate may be fair enough, but we need a more consistent option.

The point that I am also trying to make is that this isn't new. It has happened in at least 2 other occasions this season at home. And once we go behind against this set up, as we did today and we did against Preston, our chances of scoring are very low. That might also explain why we have such poor records against both these 2 teams over the past few years.

[Malago]

Diediou return to full training is imminent.  Duric is not far behind.  Our policy of signing young talent who can be improved is bearing fruit.  

In the words of Corporal Jones; Don't Panic

[Bristol_Badger]

3 minutes ago, Malago said:

Diediou return to full training is imminent.  Duric is not far behind.  Our policy of signing young talent who can be improved is bearing fruit.  

In the words of Corporal Jones; Don't Panic

Can’t wait for Fam but Duric can’t string a run of games together for toffee.

We need to bring someone in.

[Dr Balls]

16 minutes ago, Malago said:

Diediou return to full training is imminent.  Duric is not far behind.  Our policy of signing young talent who can be improved is bearing fruit.  

In the words of Corporal Jones; Don't Panic

Not suggesting panic, but we need an effective plan against teams who come & play the same way as Millwall, Preston & Norwich at AG. We have taken the princely sum of 1 out of a possible 9 points from those games, and each has followed a similar pattern.

Remember you probably learn more from your defeats than your victories. We need an effective plan for the next team that does the same thing at AG. Does that mean new personnel? Possibly.

[bcfcredandwhite]

I didn’t go to the game, so I can only go in the stats and match reports, which suggest that we battered them but they were clinical in one of their 3 shots on goal. Their keeper was made to work much harder  

Disappointing, but it happens - just ask Sheffield United fans about our game with them!! Not sure that there is a lot wrong imho. 

Of course, if we don’t start picking up points soon then the negative psychological effect will be very damaging, but right now I don’t feel panicky. 

We will lose to Derby. I’ve more or less accepted that, but then we will start picking up points again. Just look at Cardiff - their poor run was worse than ours but one win and they are back in there again. 

[Dr Balls]

17 minutes ago, bcfcredandwhite said:

I didn’t go to the game, so I can only go in the stats and match reports, which suggest that we battered them but they were clinical in one of their 3 shots on goal. Their keeper was made to work much harder  

Disappointing, but it happens - just ask Sheffield United fans about our game with them!! Not sure that there is a lot wrong imho. 

Of course, if we don’t start picking up points soon then the negative psychological effect will be very damaging, but right now I don’t feel panicky. 

We will lose to Derby. I’ve more or less accepted that, but then we will start picking up points again. Just look at Cardiff - their poor run was worse than ours but one win and they are back in there again. 

Stats only tell you so much. Norwich were far more likely to score especially in the first half. They could easily have been 3-0 up at halftime but for some excellent defending by Baker, and some woeful shooting in front of goal.

I am trying to remain positive but the reality is still 3 league defeats in a row. I would hope we turn it around soon & a battling draw at Derby could be the catalyst for that, but lose again on Friday & suddenly QPR at home starts looking like a "must-win".

[Dr Balls]

16 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think Bryan was our best player in nearly every game when played left back before he got moved to left midfield. He is one of the best left backs in the championship imo. 

Going forward yes. Defensively definitely not. He isn't even as good as Magnússon defensively.

[BobBobSuperBob]

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think Bryan was our best player in nearly every game when played left back before he got moved to left midfield. He is one of the best left backs in the championship imo. 

And even at left back - probably our biggest threat today when he bombed forward 

Sometimes more of a threat at Left aback than midfield - running / overlapping from deep

[Super]

Thought Joe was poor today did not put one decent cross in all game. Says it all that the best cross all game was put in by Flint.

[Harry]

42 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

 

Also much though I like Joe Bryan a lot, I wish LJ would stop playing him at left back. I admit he had little cover in front of him at times, but the amounts of space given to their No 2. Pinto today was shocking. And unlike when he plays in midfield & stays out wide, at left back Joe keeps drifting closer to the centre back, and doesn't close down out wide. Keep Magnússon at left back & Joe in left midfield. 

Absolutely this.

Lifted from the ‘Kent’ thread, but thought I’d paste it here as it’s relevant to point made above in regard to the goal against. 

someone commented that Bryan was screaming for Kent to overlap him, whereas I saw on a couple of occasions the complete opposite. A couple of times Kent had the ball and looked round expecting Bryan to overlap into space but he was just standing there waiting for Kent to pass back to him. 

Also, Kent, Korey & Taylor on 3 separate occasions had to berate Bryan for poor passes down the line or into a channel. 

Finally, for their goal, correct me if I’m wrong but the only player of theirs down our whole left quarter of the pitch their full back. We had our CB’s perfectly set so why Bryan was tucked so far in, literally 2 yards away from Baker, I have no idea. Bryan should have gone out to meet their player, he was after all the only Norwich player in the vicinity and that should be Bryan’s area to patrol if there is no immediate danger to the CB’s. 

As it was, Kent actually DID track back and faced up their player, which is what forces him into playing it back rather than crossing it. So those saying he was lazy and didn’t track back need to actually watch it again, as he did, so you’re wrong. How could he be accused of not tracking back when he’s the one who prevents the cross?? 

Then, once it goes back to Maddison, Pack, Baker & Flint all make an effort to close him down. Bryan just stands in the same spot, covering no one and doing nothing. He’s actually happily watched both his centre backs come out of their positions to close the danger down whilst done nothing himself. 

Sorry, look at it and understand that Kent does track, Bryan does eff-all for the whole of their attack. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

Absolutely this.

Lifted from the ‘Kent’ thread, but thought I’d paste it here as it’s relevant to point made above in regard to the goal against. 

someone commented that Bryan was screaming for Kent to overlap him, whereas I saw on a couple of occasions the complete opposite. A couple of times Kent had the ball and looked round expecting Bryan to overlap into space but he was just standing there waiting for Kent to pass back to him. 

Also, Kent, Korey & Taylor on 3 separate occasions had to berate Bryan for poor passes down the line or into a channel. 

Finally, for their goal, correct me if I’m wrong but the only player of theirs down our whole left quarter of the pitch their full back. We had our CB’s perfectly set so why Bryan was tucked so far in, literally 2 yards away from Baker, I have no idea. Bryan should have gone out to meet their player, he was after all the only Norwich player in the vicinity and that should be Bryan’s area to patrol if there is no immediate danger to the CB’s. 

As it was, Kent actually DID track back and faced up their player, which is what forces him into playing it back rather than crossing it. So those saying he was lazy and didn’t track back need to actually watch it again, as he did, so you’re wrong. How could he be accused of not tracking back when he’s the one who prevents the cross?? 

Then, once it goes back to Maddison, Pack, Baker & Flint all make an effort to close him down. Bryan just stands in the same spot, covering no one and doing nothing. He’s actually happily watched both his centre backs come out of their positions to close the danger down whilst done nothing himself. 

Sorry, look at it and understand that Kent does track, Bryan does eff-all for the whole of their attack. 

Got to say @Harry

We all know you are no fan of JB for some reason

But in essence to blame him and complete a detailed analysis of any perceived mistake in it for the goal is incredible ,     in a.game where , whether at his best or not I thought he was our most likely to create , or score a goal and would have been close with Flint for MOM for me 

Wed be a very much poorer side , in many respects without Joe Bryan

[OldlandReddies]

21 minutes ago, Bristol_Badger said:

Can’t wait for Fam but Duric can’t string a run of games together for toffee.

We need to bring someone in.

I think anyone who listened to LJ's post match comments knows the answer to this. We aint bringing another striker in. Fam starts training in ernest next week and we will go with what we have in Jan.

[tinman85]

50 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

As is so often on here, after today's game the forum's contributors seem to be splitting into the glass half full & glass half empty camps.

But the reality is that we have lost at home again to a physical, well organised team who press higher up the pitch as per Preston. Nothing special and had been on a bad run but come with a plan & go away with 3 points.To a degree, I think we have been "found out". Millwall at home early in the season was very similar. We don't have any physical presence upfront with an isolated Bobby Reid, and although we played lots of nice stuff in midfield, we really didn't do much in the penalty box, while our shots from outside the box, with the exception of Brownhill's effort, were never going to trouble a half decent goalkeeper. To be fair even LJ seems to have said as much in his post-match interview.

We need a striker ASAP & clearly Matty Taylor isn't going to score in this league any time soon. Nor does anyone think Cauley Woodrow is going to do the business, while Engvall can't even get on the bench. I am not sure that we can wait on Djuric or Diedhiou coming back from injury & immediately being up for it. That could be weeks away. We need someone now. Someone mentioned Lewis Grabban today. Anyone who can score 12 goals in 19 games this season for Sunderland must have something to offer at this level. If his loan at Sunderland is up, he would certainly seem to be an option.

Also much though I like Joe Bryan a lot, I wish LJ would stop playing him at left back. I admit he had little cover in front of him at times, but the amounts of space given to their No 2. Pinto today was shocking. And unlike when he plays in midfield & stays out wide, at left back Joe keeps drifting closer to the centre back, and doesn't close down out wide. Keep Magnússon at left back & Joe in left midfield. Certainly if we want to retain our shape against Derby that would appear to be the best option.

As for Walsh & Kent next week, I would limit them both to short cameos from the subs bench. I thought this week was a "must not lose" game, but lose at Derby on Friday & all chance of an automatic spot will be gone already at this stage of the season.

We are the happy clappy brigade.....

[Dr Balls]

17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Have you seen many of the games earlier in the season? His main strength was defending. Miles better than Magnússon in every department, other than long throws.

Sorry but at left back, Joe's positioning is very suspect when defending. I was hoping that Jamie Mac could help him get better with that, but so far no evidence to suggest that's the case.

Please don't get me wrong, I like Joe Bryan and his overall attitude, but he is suited to be a left wing back with a central 3 (as per our promotion season) or a left-sided midfielder, rather than an out-and-out left back.

[tinman85]

Just now, OldlandReddies said:

I think anyone who listened to LJ's post match comments knows the answer to thid. We aint bringing another striker in. Fam starts training in ernest next week and we will go with what we have in Jan.

These lads are average. Proven quality the name of the game 

[reddoc]

9 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think Bryan was our best player in nearly every game when played left back before he got moved to left midfield. He is one of the best left backs in the championship imo. 

I agree , and it's fairly obvious Kent has been brought in to play in front of him. Gives us the prospect of a mouth watering, attack minded left side once they hit it off. Appears from listening to RB that Kent's been written off after 20 mins, but I saw enough to recognise that if that pair can combine effectively they will terrify any defence. Can't wait. 

[Olé]

To be honest if Bailey puts his foot through the ball in the first half and Brownhill's shot goes in off the crossbar we win that game. Today was an anomaly. Anyone who gets exercised by this sort of performance won't survive an average City season. We were all over them for long periods but had literally no striker to aim at. Crosses and shots were all wasted.

It's nice to see we all have a meltdown in us to get out but everything is okay. This is the sort of result that makes winning at Hull and Sheffield United more rewarding. Those were anomalies too so we're winning the battle.

We are where we're supposed to be and let's keep trying to knock the supposed promotion teams off their perch. When we have some proper strikers this division will know who we are.

[Dr Balls]

17 minutes ago, reddoc said:

I agree , and it's fairly obvious Kent has been brought in to play in front of him. Gives us the prospect of a mouth watering, attack minded left side once they hit it off. Appears from listening to RB that Kent's been written off after 20 mins, but I saw enough to recognise that if that pair can combine effectively they will terrify any defence. Can't wait. 

Not writing Kent off but there were elements of Junior Bent about his performance today. Bags of pace & skill but tried to over-elaborate or take it too far at times, losing the ball or missing the opportunity. He had one sharp shot that he made for himself that is an encouraging pointer to what he might do.

Apparently there is a clause from Liverpool that he has to play in every game, so I guess we will see a lot more of him & be able to make a more reasoned judgment over the coming weeks. 

[iamalagerdrinker]

I thought we played very well today and some of the comments about the performance for me are a little uncalled for but you can just say i'm a glass half full sort of guy. I agree with Taylor not being a consistent out and out Championship striker where we are at the moment we need better when Diedhiou returns it'll be a breath of fresh air but I still think we need more. Woodrow doesn't offer anything I don't get what sort of players he's meant to be, he's 6ft+ but isn't a target man, doesn't seem to have much pace. Engvall who knows whats happening with him. Reid has a tremendous season I don't think anyone expected it even with his pre season form but he's just missing that touch from Diedhiou & Durjic. One or two more players coming in and our injuries coming back we can make the top six easily and push for 2nd! 

[ZiderEyed]

11 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

These lads are average. Proven quality the name of the game 

Proper circular this though mind.

How does a player become proven? By playing games at a good level.

How do they get given the opportunity to play at that level if they're not proven? They don't.

On this logic AF, both JBs, and BR wouldn't have got their chance to show they're good enough at this level.

[redysteadygo1]

9 minutes ago, Harry said:

Absolutely this.

Lifted from the ‘Kent’ thread, but thought I’d paste it here as it’s relevant to point made above in regard to the goal against. 

someone commented that Bryan was screaming for Kent to overlap him, whereas I saw on a couple of occasions the complete opposite. A couple of times Kent had the ball and looked round expecting Bryan to overlap into space but he was just standing there waiting for Kent to pass back to him. 

Also, Kent, Korey & Taylor on 3 separate occasions had to berate Bryan for poor passes down the line or into a channel. 

Finally, for their goal, correct me if I’m wrong but the only player of theirs down our whole left quarter of the pitch their full back. We had our CB’s perfectly set so why Bryan was tucked so far in, literally 2 yards away from Baker, I have no idea. Bryan should have gone out to meet their player, he was after all the only Norwich player in the vicinity and that should be Bryan’s area to patrol if there is no immediate danger to the CB’s. 

As it was, Kent actually DID track back and faced up their player, which is what forces him into playing it back rather than crossing it. So those saying he was lazy and didn’t track back need to actually watch it again, as he did, so you’re wrong. How could he be accused of not tracking back when he’s the one who prevents the cross?? 

Then, once it goes back to Maddison, Pack, Baker & Flint all make an effort to close him down. Bryan just stands in the same spot, covering no one and doing nothing. He’s actually happily watched both his centre backs come out of their positions to close the danger down whilst done nothing himself. 

Sorry, look at it and understand that Kent does track, Bryan does eff-all for the whole of their attack. 

From my view in the Dolman when the ball was on the Norwich left side our back four were ideally positioned but maybe Bryan was tucked in but that seems to be the orders given to our full backs. Anyway at that time their full back did wander down their right. Kent was upfield and looking back at play and then realised the space that their full back had. Trouble was it took him a time to decide that maybe he should be covering defensively and then made an effort to get back. But from my view it was Kent's inaction that allowed the full back to take advantage of the space. Maybe he has to learn what his total responsibilities for the team are and the defensive duties that go with them. Why the hell he didn't shout to Joe and make him aware of the danger I will never know.

Sorry Kent had to shoulder most of the responsibility for the acres of space their full back had.

[reddoc]

2 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Not writing Kent off but there were elements of Junior Bent about his performance today. Bags of pace & skill but tried to over-elaborate or take it too far at times, losing the ball or missing the opportunity. He had one sharp shot that he made for himself that is an encouraging pointer to what he might do.

Apparently there is a clause from Liverpool that he has to play in every game, so I guess we will see a lot more of him & be able to make a more reasoned judgment over the coming weeks. 

Yep every other bunch of fans that were in for him bang on about this clause. I'm assuming we did the maths and worked out we can afford not to play him if that's LJ's choice. He obviously has skill and pace in spades. Looked a bit lost, but he's only arrived yesterday. That's why I say if he develops an understanding with Bryan, they could be electric.

[Harry]

15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Got to say @Harry

We all know you are no fan of JB for some reason

But in essence to blame him and complete a detailed analysis of any perceived mistake in it for the goal is incredible ,     in a.game where , whether at his best or not I thought he was our most likely to create , or score a goal and would have been close with Flint for MOM for me 

Wed be a very much poorer side , in many respects without Joe Bryan

Bob, I do like Joe, don’t get me wrong, but I appear to be in a minority that point out his errors, as most of our fans don’t want a bad word said against him. 

No detailed analysis for the goal either, just watched it once and it’s clear. 

I would much prefer to see the very talented Bryan playing left wing. I only criticise his awareness/quick alertness to danger when as a left back. It sometimes feels to me that Joe himself sees that he’s a forward thinking player and neglects his defensive awareness. He’s often slow to react to danger in his area of the pitch, whether that be slow to get back goal side after we lose possession, or slow to close down in wide positions as he stays too close to his CB. 

I like Joe. I think he’s a multi-million pound rated ‘forward-minded’ player. However, I think he’s an average championship left back. But others don’t want to see or say that. 

[BCFC Grim]

So JB has gone from one of the best left backs in the league, a 10m player to not good enough after one game. Amazing.

[Harry]

2 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

So JB has gone from one of the best left backs in the league, a 10m player to not good enough after one game. Amazing.

Ummm, no. You’ll find my opinion has been very consistent.