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Target Man/Physical Presence


BCFC_Josh

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9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Height is not a determiner of being a target man. 

I know it’s hard to believe, but you’ve kind of described the Woodrow of Burton. That’s why I thought he’d be a good fit here. Hasn’t worked out unfortunately.   He gave Flint and Wright a torrid afternoon last season. Has the attributes. 

I think part of the problem with Woodrow is that he hasn't had a run of starts. Very very hard for a striker to get their eye in or into any sort of rhythm if they get 20 mins here and there where usually the dynamic of the game is already determined by the scoreline.

I think our first choice are Diedhiou and Reid - so for the first part of the season he wasn't going to start. I really rate Djuric, I think he's fantastic and when fit he's also above Woodrow in the pecking order. 

I can see why Taylor would get appearances from the bench, he's busy and has a good football brain but I think Woodrow is the better player overall. It appears though that Woodrow is 5th choice which is pretty hard when the team seem to prefer playing 1 striker and have a player buzzing around them (Reid/Paterson/Taylor) in that 9 and a 1/2 role. This means he's basically competing for 1 position with 4 players, I don't think he would get picked for that Reid role as he's not dynamic or busy enough.

Shame really as this year probably hasn't been much good for his development.

 

 

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I would be looking for a forward to push us on. 

I know Diedhiou is back soon along with Djuric a month or two behind him. And we’ve got Reid playing alone at the moment. 

But why can’t we look to bring in another that is going to push those three for places? It’s like we’ve settled on Reid finishing the season (I’m a big fan of Reid, I’ve always have been) but I’m in the impression that to move forward you improve your team not steady it. 

If it’s this season we go up, sentiment of the current team goes out the window. Unless you do a Burnley and WBA of old tweaking the team and playing yo-yo a season or two. Must promoted teams start moving to higher transfers fees (and Prem ready players. 

 

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We clearly already have enough strikers in the squad. Problem is that the two we need now are injured and 4 others (MT, CW, GE, AG) aren't good enough at this level.

I totally understand the buy young/cheap and develop. However in this case we have ended up with an overload of players who are frankly not contributing. You're never gonna get every punt right when you do it this way and some just aren't working out.

I think we should be trying hard to move them on. If we are serious about going up we need a proven championship goal scorer in now. If not then we may as well move them on anyway and just wait for the injured players to return. 

Personally I think SL would rather stick with the strategy than try to go big now. As long as we keep progressing that seems sensible to me.

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40 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

We clearly already have enough strikers in the squad. Problem is that the two we need now are injured and 4 others (MT, CW, GE, AG) aren't good enough at this level.

I totally understand the buy young/cheap and develop. However in this case we have ended up with an overload of players who are frankly not contributing. You're never gonna get every punt right when you do it this way and some just aren't working out.

I think we should be trying hard to move them on. If we are serious about going up we need a proven championship goal scorer in now. If not then we may as well move them on anyway and just wait for the injured players to return. 

Personally I think SL would rather stick with the strategy than try to go big now. As long as we keep progressing that seems sensible to me.

Stick or twist ? Who'd be a manager on £ 500,000 a year ? 

Seriously ;

No guarantees that Fammy or Milan will come back guns blazing from the off,  equally no guarantees that Hugill , Nakhi Wells , Jordan Rhodes or whomever would  either .

I personally would stick , for the cohesion of the squad spirit and we'd save a fortune by not gambling on a ' quick fix ' to hopefully see us over the line .

 

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I don’t get the it will take a month and a half for Famara and Diedhiou to be match fit. They won’t be sitting in a recliner until they start training again. Famara will already have had plenty of cardio work done and they will have cleared him to be fit enough and strong enough to come back to training. It may take 2-3 games to fully get back to his best but that takes us to beginning of Feb. 

Also, was it forgotten how many he scored just before his injury. I am quite sure he was into the top 10 in the league. That is after we accepted our 5m signing was misfiring. Then some questioning his ability to stay fit when it wasn’t a muscle injury or non contact. He jumped and fell akwardly. That does not suggest he will struggle to stay fit. Would be like saying COD will struggle with fitness now he was tackled late. 

Point is, the club do not need to waste money on cover for our record signing who was already on the way to raising his value to more than what we paid. Now if it is Djuric we need to cover we can have that conversation. Though I do think we need more of a fox in the box/on the shoulder quick striker. We had a thread on Nouha Dicko in the summer and always thought he would have been perfect with his recent injuries aside. 

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41 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

I don’t get the it will take a month and a half for Famara and Diedhiou to be match fit. They won’t be sitting in a recliner until they start training again. Famara will already have had plenty of cardio work done and they will have cleared him to be fit enough and strong enough to come back to training. It may take 2-3 games to fully get back to his best but that takes us to beginning of Feb. 

Also, was it forgotten how many he scored just before his injury. I am quite sure he was into the top 10 in the league. That is after we accepted our 5m signing was misfiring. Then some questioning his ability to stay fit when it wasn’t a muscle injury or non contact. He jumped and fell akwardly. That does not suggest he will struggle to stay fit. Would be like saying COD will struggle with fitness now he was tackled late. 

Point is, the club do not need to waste money on cover for our record signing who was already on the way to raising his value to more than what we paid. Now if it is Djuric we need to cover we can have that conversation. Though I do think we need more of a fox in the box/on the shoulder quick striker. We had a thread on Nouha Dicko in the summer and always thought he would have been perfect with his recent injuries aside. 

:clap:

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We don't need a target man.  Aside from pretending Flint is a centre forward for five minutes of desperation we aren't going to play that way.  We do need someone to bully the centre halves and make the space for the quick movement that Reid and the others provide.

Diedhiou can do this, probably Woodrow can do it too if he got a decent run in the side.  But we're playing 451 at the moment because it lets us keep lots of possession and turn over quickly.  Reid up front on his own isn't a great fit for that.

As for signing, no I wouldn't sign a forward unless we're moving on Engvall and Taylor and a player is available who we think is good for the next three to five years.  January isn't ideal.

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On 14/01/2018 at 13:39, Nibor said:

We don't need a target man.  Aside from pretending Flint is a centre forward for five minutes of desperation we aren't going to play that way.  We do need someone to bully the centre halves and make the space for the quick movement that Reid and the others provide.

Diedhiou can do this, probably Woodrow can do it too if he got a decent run in the side.  But we're playing 451 at the moment because it lets us keep lots of possession and turn over quickly.  Reid up front on his own isn't a great fit for that.

As for signing, no I wouldn't sign a forward unless we're moving on Engvall and Taylor and a player is available who we think is good for the next three to five years.  January isn't ideal.

You're right, we don't need a traditional 'target man' we could use  a hard case striker. 

We don't know just how far away Famara is but he's back training this week and he could be on the bench at Derby which would be a huge bonus.

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We’ve got just over 2 weeks left in this window.  I suspect we are waiting to see if Diedhiou can come back and make a decision for us.  My doubt is that LJ dies the think that beyond a front four of:

  • Reid
  • Paterson
  • Djuric
  • Diedhiou

He’s got anyone who he thinks could play 15-19 games to see us home this season.  Shame because I think Woodrow could make that a list of 5.  But as my posting on OTIB has no sway on team selection, I think LJ must have someone he’s keen to bring in, whether that be short term or not.

Taylor, Hinds nor Garita are the answer imho....in our current position.  Having said that Hinds is our nearest type to Reid...who seems to be pivotal to us.  Reid is the player I fear losing most.

I’ve said all window, I’d go with our strike force, but if Reid were to get injured long term, I'd panic-buy someone.

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59 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We’ve got just over 2 weeks left in this window.  I suspect we are waiting to see if Diedhiou can come back and make a decision for us.  My doubt is that LJ dies the think that beyond a front four of:

  • Reid
  • Paterson
  • Djuric
  • Diedhiou

He’s got anyone who he thinks could play 15-19 games to see us home this season.  Shame because I think Woodrow could make that a list of 5.  But as my posting on OTIB has no sway on team selection, I think LJ must have someone he’s keen to bring in, whether that be short term or not.

Taylor, Hinds nor Garita are the answer imho....in our current position.  Having said that Hinds is our nearest type to Reid...who seems to be pivotal to us.  Reid is the player I fear losing most.

I’ve said all window, I’d go with our strike force, but if Reid were to get injured long term, I'd panic-buy someone.

I assume Dave …For a similar reason to me …?…………… his work rate and leading of the press moreso than his goal threat for me

Im not sure I’ve ever seen a front man work harder and run further right until the final whistle … incredible

Hate to think how many points his won us this season , not with his goals but his closing down and press leading 

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11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I assume Dave …For a similar reason to me …?…………… his work rate and leading of the press moreso than his goal threat for me

Im not sure I’ve ever seen a front man work harder and run further right until the final whistle … incredible

Hate to think how many points his won us this season , not with his goals but his closing down and press leading 

Totally agree. I thought Norwich was the first time it looked like something was missing. We could have done with a genuine striker to allow Bobby to drop to the No.10 role he had earlier in the season, he was scoring regularly then too.

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14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

I assume Dave …For a similar reason to me …?…………… his work rate and leading of the press moreso than his goal threat for me

Im not sure I’ve ever seen a front man work harder and run further right until the final whistle … incredible

Hate to think how many points his won us this season , not with his goals but his closing down and press leading 

If we can get Diedhiou up to speed asap, the partnership with Reid is only gonna make us a better.  Couple that with Djúric to come off the bench or occasional start, and Pato to play off of either to give Reid the odd rest, makes us look strong.  Of course this is fitness permitting.

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On 14/01/2018 at 13:39, Nibor said:

We don't need a target man.  Aside from pretending Flint is a centre forward for five minutes of desperation we aren't going to play that way.  We do need someone to bully the centre halves and make the space for the quick movement that Reid and the others provide.

Diedhiou can do this, probably Woodrow can do it too if he got a decent run in the side.  But we're playing 451 at the moment because it lets us keep lots of possession and turn over quickly.  Reid up front on his own isn't a great fit for that.

As for signing, no I wouldn't sign a forward unless we're moving on Engvall and Taylor and a player is available who we think is good for the next three to five years.  January isn't ideal.

I was going to say more or less the same thing. 

Flint scores goals and on the (thankfully rare) times we need to be more ‘direct ‘ he fits the bill very well. We just shouldn’t use him in that way when 1-0 up against a team with 10 men who are experts at counter-attacking on the break - but that’s for another thread. 

We will have to ride this out until Diedhiou and Duric are back - which will be soon. 

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It's such a shame we have these injuries...when you look at it written down, if we had everyone fit, we would have a formidable match day squad, that would have so many options and ways to play.

When fit...this squad excites me. Would certainly be a match for anyone.

------------------------------------------------------------------FF-----------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------Wright-----------------------------Flint-------------------------Baker------------------------------

------------------------------------------Smith-----------------------------Pack------------------------------------------------

Brownhill------------------------------------------------Walsh-------------------------------------------------------Bryan

------------------------------------------Reid---------------------------------Pato------------------------------------------------

Steele, Pisano, Mags, Kent, Odowda, Famara, Duric.

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5 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's such a shame we have these injuries...when you look at it written down, if we had everyone fit, we would have a formidable match day squad, that would have so many options and ways to play.

When fit...this squad excites me. Would certainly be a match for anyone.

------------------------------------------------------------------FF-----------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------Wright-----------------------------Flint-------------------------Baker------------------------------

------------------------------------------Smith-----------------------------Pack------------------------------------------------

Brownhill------------------------------------------------Walsh-------------------------------------------------------Bryan

------------------------------------------Reid---------------------------------Pato------------------------------------------------

Steele, Pisano, Mags, Kent, Odowda, Famara, Duric.

Isn’t that different to what you posted yesterday?  You are the tinker man!

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Balls to a target man, we need t go all out for a creative midfielder. Someone who can score and pick out a through ball with quality. Would be over the moon if we went all out and paid 12 mill for Maddison at Norwich. Him and Walsh with Korey in midfield would be awesome. We have, fam, Bobby, djuric and Pato for forward positions. Why the need for a big target man if we have someone that could assist all others?

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11 hours ago, BOSRed said:

Balls to a target man, we need t go all out for a creative midfielder. Someone who can score and pick out a through ball with quality. Would be over the moon if we went all out and paid 12 mill for Maddison at Norwich. Him and Walsh with Korey in midfield would be awesome. We have, fam, Bobby, djuric and Pato for forward positions. Why the need for a big target man if we have someone that could assist all others?

I think we're ok for midfielders really. Our system relies on having Smith and Pack playing fairly defensively in the middle anyway, with creativity coming from Reid, Paterson and whoever else is playing on the other wing.

That said - Maddison at Norwich would be a fantastic (albeit ambitious!) signing.

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IMO like some have already stated we don't need a target man. What we need is a striker who is happy to receive the ball and link up with the midfield but also someone who can spin and turn a defense at pace with the potential to get 10+ goals for the rest of the season.

If you look at any top teams that play fast paced/pressing attacking football like us, no teams play with 'a target man'. Maybe bring a big man on for the last 10 mins of a game to make the ball stick up top but that shouldn't be the style of play we are aiming for 90 mins.

I think having a big man up top also promotes a long ball game - At one point this season LJ had to take Duric off as our team got lazy and kept pumping the ball forward rather than play through the midfield which is what has got us this far this season.

 

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The trouble with playing a target man is that the other players can see it as an easy option. Put a big bloke up front and suddenly the back 4 start wellying the ball at his head instead of playing football.

We could do with having a bit more strength and power up front, but it needs to be in the form of an all-round Steve Brooker type, rather than a target man. Diediou and Djuric are good footballers who can contribute to the normal style of play as well as adding a bit of strength.

If we are looking for a last resort option then Flint is as good as any. He's shown he can play a bit too.

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