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Section 82 expansion...Ideas and Pitches?


Mr Popodopolous

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1 minute ago, bris red said:

Just out of interest, do the fans pushing this think we have enough standers to actually significantly increase this area anyway? I know ive seen 'the demand is there' shouts a lot but is it really there ? 

100%. I think you might underestimate how unpopular being made to sit at football matches is. I know there are people out there who have to sit or prefer sitting, but myself and almost everyone I know prefer standing. Can easily see 1500-2000 more people wanting to stand if it was feasible to increase the size of S82 by that amount.

Even then, it's unfair to say to those who want to stand and think it would drastically improve their matchday experience "you must sit", when given no opportunity to move somewhere where you CAN stand. 

(I know you're not criticising it but that came off a bit more preachy than I expected it to :thumbsup:)

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For me I would wait to expand the section until there is 'safe standing legislation ' which I don't think is that far away?

I agree standing can help improve atmosphere but it can't be at the cost of someone who wants to sit down. That's why the safe standing areas need to come ASAP as they allow people to stand and it doesn't effect the person behind etc .

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2 minutes ago, bris red said:

Does make you wonder if plenty do prefer to stand then why does NO other group in the south stand even attempt to join in with S82.. you'd like to have thought it would have organically spread across the stand but the rest of the South stand dont seem to want anything to do with it.. where are all these hoarders of new fans wanting to stand coming from?

Im all for standing btw.. its the only way i can watch live football, its just after years of following this club in all seater stadiums i have come to accept as a fan base we just dont seem to like to stand en masse..

I think there are lots of people like who are in the same situation as me. I'd 100% prefer to stand, but I am usually in the Dolman right in the middle of the upper block and that wouldn't be acceptable. 

Given the choice, I definitely would. But I don't have the choice.

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12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Standing is clearly far better for atmosphere. I agree it's an awkward issue if people may lose their seats, but I think originally the club didn't handle the movement of our vocal fans very well.

True, but there are a lot of people like me who don’t normally sing . I make no apologies for not “creating atmosphere”. I actually find it odd being in a singing section, which inevitably happens at away matches.

It’s a controversial opinion on here I know (though possibly less so if you could poll the whole crowd). I like to concentrate on the football, and being  among singers makes me feel cut off from it. I find it like watching it on TV in a noisy pub where the other drinkers are ignoring it. It also feels as if the fans are concentrating on the chanting and the opposition fans. It all gets a bit self regarding - ie the noise has become the objective, ahead of actually watching the match.

As I say, this may not be a popular opinion, but  probably more common than you realise.

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1 minute ago, Spoons said:

For me I would wait to expand the section until there is 'safe standing legislation ' which I don't think is that far away?

I agree standing can help improve atmosphere but it can't be at the cost of someone who wants to sit down. That's why the safe standing areas need to come ASAP as they allow people to stand and it doesn't effect the person behind etc .

Think this is where the club have let us down a bit.

They've handled this really poorly regarding the location of S82, and given a bit of long term planning, could potentially not have to face these dilemmas about moving fans with STs out. Given we pushed the safe standing thing a few years ago, I really expect BCFC to be one of the first clubs to adopt it, should it come in.

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

OK I think yes, at least a bit initially.

Top row right across the Dolman...all stand pretty much. 

South Stand, excluding S82...top row, people like to stand.

That's 2 small chunks right there.

That's the reason anyone buys a ticket for the back of a stand, imo.

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7 minutes ago, Leveller said:

True, but there are a lot of people like me who don’t normally sing . I make no apologies for not “creating atmosphere”. I actually find it odd being in a singing section, which inevitably happens at away matches.

I think away games are a bit different. With many teams, you go away with the understanding that you'll be standing and feel obliged to make an atmosphere - see Leeds for example. I wish our fans were like that, on occasion we are (Man City) - but usually not.

Quote

It’s a controversial opinion on here I know (though possibly less so if you could poll the whole crowd). I like to concentrate on the football, and being  among singers makes me feel cut off from it. I find it like watching it on TV in a noisy pub where the other drinkers are ignoring it. It also feels as if the fans are concentrating on the chanting and the opposition fans. It all gets a bit self regarding - ie the noise has become the objective, ahead of actually watching the match.

At home games I agree about watching the game. The area I am in isn't particularly noisy unfortunately, but I do what I can and appreciate the effort others make. I think it's totally possible to concentrate on the match and take part in atmosphere creation though.

Quote

As I say, this may not be a popular opinion, but  probably more common than you realise.

No, I think it is a reasonably common opinion.

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16 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think away games are a bit different. With many teams, you go away with the understanding that you'll be standing and feel obliged to make an atmosphere - see Leeds for example. I wish our fans were like that, on occasion we are (Man City) - but usually not.

At home games I agree about watching the game. The area I am in isn't particularly noisy unfortunately, but I do what I can and appreciate the effort others make. I think it's totally possible to concentrate on the match and take part in atmosphere creation though.

No, I think it is a reasonably common opinion.

I tend to prefer atmosphere that is naturally generated by some exciting football. I quite like witty original singing, but when a joke is repeated for the thousandth time  - eg “is this a library?” or “is there a fire drill?” - then it’s very tedious and we’d be better off without it.

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14 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

You’ve changed your tune! :P

 

Always had that opinion just don't think it should be at a cost of someone who wants to sit.

I think you would be very surprised if we ever met as I think you have an idea in your head of me that is completly wrong! 

 

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34 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

....it's unfair to say to those who want to stand and think it would drastically improve their matchday experience "you must sit", when given no opportunity to move somewhere where you CAN stand. 

I can see both sides of this...but Ashton Gate is an all-seater stadium...why is it unfair to those who want to stand?

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3 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Always had that opinion just don't think it should be at a cost of someone who wants to sit.

I think you would be very surprised if we ever met as I think you have an idea in your head of me that is completly wrong! 

 

I must have imagined the many debates we’ve had over the years where you argued that whether you sit or stand makes no difference to the atmosphere you create then! 

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4 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I can see both sides of this...but Ashton Gate is an all-seater stadium...why is it unfair to those who want to stand?

Because standing isn't illegal, isn't dangerous, and if it would significantly improve someones matchday experience, then I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to. Point is it's unfair to make someone sit if standing wouldn't hurt anyone, and so expanding the dedicated area when the demand exists makes sense.

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I must have imagined the many debates we’ve had over the years where you argued that whether you sit or stand makes no difference to the atmosphere you create then! 

At home I sit, go with my kids and dad etc. Still sing and shout!!

Away is a different story! 

Go with mates etc and make a day of it. Stand sing all day long!!

 

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56 minutes ago, Spoons said:

For me I would wait to expand the section until there is 'safe standing legislation ' which I don't think is that far away?

I agree standing can help improve atmosphere but it can't be at the cost of someone who wants to sit down. That's why the safe standing areas need to come ASAP as they allow people to stand and it doesn't effect the person behind etc .

Well done @Spoons, I was skimming through wondering why everyone had forgot about safe standing. Only way forward.

It's an absolute travesty that the government of the day (no doubt in collusion with the football authorities and club owners) made football all seating (only for the top two tiers mind - obviously forces of nature work differently the lower down the leagues you are) on the back of footballing tragedies.

They could just lift whatever safety standards the German's have in force and safe standing could be in just like that. SS and Atyeo converted, as long as I can still sit in the Dolman, I'm all for it.

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29 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Because standing isn't illegal, isn't dangerous, and if it would significantly improve someones matchday experience, then I don't see why people shouldn't be allowed to. Point is it's unfair to make someone sit if standing wouldn't hurt anyone, and so expanding the dedicated area when the demand exists makes sense.

I agree. Tbh, safe standing is long overdue. Not illegal or dangerous and boosts the atmosphere.

I guess the key question, even before necessary changes in regs and law. Can we, how can we persuade SAG to look seriously at this.

Wish lists and growth are great, but if they are concerned it won't get off the ground anytime soon.

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Anyone remember these plans by the club and fans? Starting to wish that this went ahead with just normal seats and the dividing wall in the middle until safe standing comes in. Of course the posh lot moved in so all that was scrapped. 

5a5fcf85bc0dd_safestand3.thumb.png.65d6e783d605ff2d45a55d837a401152.png

5a5fced879fdf_safestand.thumb.png.6ef4ca418c1becac2b23dc450784a2c5.png

5a5fcee337e39_safestand2.thumb.png.df4906f9825cd61688c0815f1f9f8f3a.png

 

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3 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

Anyone remember these plans by the club and fans? Starting to wish that this went ahead with just normal seats and the dividing wall in the middle until safe standing comes in. Of course the posh lot moved in so all that was scrapped. 

5a5fcf85bc0dd_safestand3.thumb.png.65d6e783d605ff2d45a55d837a401152.png

5a5fced879fdf_safestand.thumb.png.6ef4ca418c1becac2b23dc450784a2c5.png

5a5fcee337e39_safestand2.thumb.png.df4906f9825cd61688c0815f1f9f8f3a.png

 

Nothing to do with the 'posh lot moving in'! 

Its goverment legastation that doesn't allow it !!

Although that might not fit well with your agenda ?

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1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

100%. I think you might underestimate how unpopular being made to sit at football matches is. I know there are people out there who have to sit or prefer sitting, but myself and almost everyone I know prefer standing. Can easily see 1500-2000 more people wanting to stand if it was feasible to increase the size of S82 by that amount.

Even then, it's unfair to say to those who want to stand and think it would drastically improve their matchday experience "you must sit", when given no opportunity to move somewhere where you CAN stand. 

(I know you're not criticising it but that came off a bit more preachy than I expected it to :thumbsup:)

Genuine question - and probably one for the club to answer, for some of our cup games this season (thinking Stoke and Palace in particular) not all ST holders attended (which is fair enough), but was the standing area sold out with people who have a preference for standing but haven't had that option in their usual seat?

Guessing people could have moved to that area for these games or just bought tickets for this area.

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18 minutes ago, Spoons said:

Nothing to do with the 'posh lot moving in'! 

Its goverment legastation that doesn't allow it !!

Although that might not fit well with your agenda ?

But if we'd have implemented that design of the stand it requires people to sit with the seats locked. Installing safe standing seats isn't against legislation, it's having them locked up as standing... which would've been. 

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2 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Genuine question - and probably one for the club to answer, for some of our cup games this season (thinking Stoke and Palace in particular) not all ST holders attended (which is fair enough), but was the standing area sold out with people who have a preference for standing but haven't had that option in their usual seat?

Guessing people could have moved to that area for these games or just bought tickets for this area.

Couldn't tell you tbh. Seemed pretty full against Stoke from memory but I can't remember what it was like against Palace. 

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29 minutes ago, Threshing Red said:

Anyone remember these plans by the club and fans? Starting to wish that this went ahead with just normal seats and the dividing wall in the middle until safe standing comes in. Of course the posh lot moved in so all that was scrapped. 

5a5fcf85bc0dd_safestand3.thumb.png.65d6e783d605ff2d45a55d837a401152.png

5a5fced879fdf_safestand.thumb.png.6ef4ca418c1becac2b23dc450784a2c5.png

5a5fcee337e39_safestand2.thumb.png.df4906f9825cd61688c0815f1f9f8f3a.png

 

Are these club or fan mock ups? Assuming fans from the banners.

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11 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Genuine question - and probably one for the club to answer, for some of our cup games this season (thinking Stoke and Palace in particular) not all ST holders attended (which is fair enough), but was the standing area sold out with people who have a preference for standing but haven't had that option in their usual seat?

Guessing people could have moved to that area for these games or just bought tickets for this area.

it was against Stoke, my mates tried to pay on the day but didn't get in

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5 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Are these club or fan mock ups? Assuming fans from the banners.

I can't honestly remember but I think it was based on what the club put forward after discussing it with the fans from the singing section. But the fans wanted the standing area at the back of the section. Then the club decided the "rank was too steep" which was a random excuse at the time. 

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You've gotta remember this though.

Our SAG seem to have little interest in engaging with fans...a better atmosphere might not cut much ice with them is it within their remit? Probably not to be fair. They seem so secretive though, so secretive.

How do we know some of the decisions the club got flak for, were not necessarily SAG decisions which the club just fronted up for? I remember a while ago an FOI request to them or minutes or something, has that got anywhere yet? By which I mean has anyone been able to make any headway? Wasn't it @Tomarse who sent something- think was regards the Cardiff game!

Shows how they regard us alas. Also shows how secretive- well pretty well any authority is, local, business- but yeah on the topic, shows how secretive they are.

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52 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I agree. Tbh, safe standing is long overdue. Not illegal or dangerous and boosts the atmosphere.

I guess the key question, even before necessary changes in regs and law. Can we, how can we persuade SAG to look seriously at this.

Wish lists and growth are great, but if they are concerned it won't get off the ground anytime soon.

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You've gotta remember this though.

Our SAG seem to have little interest in engaging with fans...a better atmosphere might not cut much ice with them is it within their remit? Probably not to be fair. They seem so secretive though, so secretive.

How do we know some of the decisions the club got flak for, were not necessarily SAG decisions which the club just fronted up for? I remember a while ago an FOI request to them or minutes or something, has that got anywhere yet? By which I mean has anyone been able to make any headway?

Good points. Biggest stumbling block is SAG as you say, which appear to just be a subsection of the Illuminati. Dave Storr was even spotted in Bohemian Grove sacrificing children to the horned one.

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2 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Good points. Biggest stumbling block is SAG as you say, which appear to just be a subsection of the Illuminati. Dave Storr was even spotted in Bohemian Grove sacrificing children to the horned one.

It's a secret within a secret...

Mysteries eh- would make those who look to hush up the Bermuda Triangle Blush!

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1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I can see both sides of this...but Ashton Gate is an all-seater stadium...why is it unfair to those who want to stand?

I think the answer to that question is, sitting was imposed on all fans by the football authorities, in a large part due to the misinformation following the Hillsborough disaster which blamed the fans for what happened.  Supporters weren’t given a choice and many preferred and enjoyed standing at matches, but suddenly had that choice taken away from them for what later turned out to be no good reason. People who are pushing for areas of safe standing are just asking for that free choice to be restored. 

Imho, it’s just as wrong to tell people they should remain seated against their will, as it would be to tell fans that they should all stand.  This goes for away matches too, which is why there really ought to be unreserved seating, so if you want to stand you can make your way to the back, while those wanting to sit could stay nearer the front.

You’ll obviously never please all of the people all of the time, but at the moment there are probably a lot of people who feel that their enjoyment of a game has been reduced by the all seating rule, to say nothing of how the atmosphere may have also been affected.  

Everyone bangs on about freedom of choice these days, but sadly football in this country seems to be largely immune to those values.

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7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You've gotta remember this though.

Our SAG seem to have little interest in engaging with fans...a better atmosphere might not cut much ice with them is it within their remit? Probably not to be fair. They seem so secretive though, so secretive.

How do we know some of the decisions the club got flak for, were not necessarily SAG decisions which the club just fronted up for? I remember a while ago an FOI request to them or minutes or something, has that got anywhere yet? By which I mean has anyone been able to make any headway? Wasn't it @Tomarse who sent something- think was regards the Cardiff game!

Shows how they regard us alas. Also shows how secretive- well pretty well any authority is, local, business- but yeah on the topic, shows how secretive they are.

They rejected the FOI request. 

Would be interesting to see who sits on the safety advisory group. I believe it's made up of club, council and emergency service representatives. 

 

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