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Was it a penalty


Redmycolour

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9 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Exactly. When Shearer can show me the bit in the rulebook that says a player is entitled to go down I'll start listening to his views. 

Not just Shearer, many pundits including Jermaine Jenas repeat this constantly.

No player is ever 'entitled to go down' and if there was 'contact in the box' it does not automatically mean it's a foul.

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5 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Not just Shearer, many pundits including Jermaine Jenas repeat this constantly.

No player is ever 'entitled to go down' and if there was 'contact in the box' it does not automatically mean it's a foul.

The funny part being shearer then said a few weeks ago it's a contact sport and small contact doesn't mean it's a penalty, I mean make up your mind :laugh:

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Flint definitely tripped him so it should’ve been a pen but the way Jerome threw himself to the floor like a drama queen made it look like a dive.

In the real world if someone trips you up you’d put your hands out in front of you to break your fall, I’ve never seen anyone get tripped up and then throw their arms up behind them.

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38 minutes ago, Packman said:

Yes it was. John Terry hand ball in our 1-1 draw with Villa was also a clear penalty which we didn’t get. Also Josh Brownhill was fouled against Norwich last week in the box. You win some you lose some, get over it.

Not sure what we are getting over? The OP asked a question which people are discussing. Anyway, yes a pen but I like how refs are taking a stand against diving.

 

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34 minutes ago, BoneyardTIM said:

Not sure what we are getting over? The OP asked a question which people are discussing. Anyway, yes a pen but I like how refs are taking a stand against diving.

 

I meant Derby fans/manager get over it just like we had to, thought that was quite obvious. If it went against us however I’d still be going mad about it now, I didn’t shut up about the disallowed goal against burton for ages.

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54 minutes ago, Ohbasso said:

Flint definitely tripped him so it should’ve been a pen but the way Jerome threw himself to the floor like a drama queen made it look like a dive.

In the real world if someone trips you up you’d put your hands out in front of you to break your fall, I’ve never seen anyone get tripped up and then throw their arms up behind them.

100% this. How does someone clipping your foot result in you arching your back and throwing your head to the sky as well? You do that on a Sunday morning or any other amateur football and you're quite rightly ridiculed and made to look a fool.

The FA are trying to get on top of diving with their retrospective punishments, but more needs to be done to publicly shame players. I know Soccer AM do their 'let's all laugh at diving' segment. However, straight after they'll do a piece on how great and funny Dele Alli is with his wacky handshakes...instead, why not ask him why he thinks diving in the penalty box is acceptable and why he's happy to cheat?

Back on topic, it was a pen - Flints reaction said it all. But the amateur dramatics probably helped us out.

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If Jerome had dived like that in open play outside of the penalty area, people would have been p***ing themselves with laughter. Therefore he was trying to get an advantage by cheating. No penalty and a booking was absolutely the correct decision.

Time wasting, cynical fouls and feigning injury are the scourge of the Championship so I would be very happy to see referees penalise teams more heavily.

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Something else I thought was interesting regarding this incident, did anyone see at the final whistle Flint and Jerome talk to each other but the first thing they done was pull their shirts over their mouths so as to avoid any lip reading! Flint probably conceding that it was a foul.

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In retrospect it was a clear penalty. But do I care, hell no! Like many people watching in real time at the game last night I thought he had dived. It would not be out of character for him to do, or for that matter Johnny Russell who spent more time laying on the grass in the first half than he did running on it. In truth, the ref was pretty poor all night so it was not a surprise that he did not give it. 

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17 minutes ago, Im_over_ere said:

Something else I thought was interesting regarding this incident, did anyone see at the final whistle Flint and Jerome talk to each other but the first thing they done was pull their shirts over their mouths so as to avoid any lip reading! Flint probably conceding that it was a foul.

I hope Flint was giving Jerome his opinion on the flying fox impression. 

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2 hours ago, Paul Turnip said:

I think this is the way refs should go. More benefit to the defender.

Whether a foul or not if he dives like that he risks not getting the decision.

Fans will blame the ref, but put more onus on the player.

Jerome should be sat at home thinking “we could have got a penalty if I hadn’t been such a knob”

Obviously the ref may still have missed the foul but maybe not. We don’t know how much of his attention was taken away by the exaggerated reaction. As mine was.

I'm wondering if refs have been quietly instructed to err on the defenders side. Chelsea last week and us on Friday. Players not trying to stay upright but going down dramatically not getting the decision. Defenders have to be allowed to tackle. If it takes a few wrong decision to stamp out this element of the modern game so be it.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

From the ref’s angle the ball went in the direction as if Flint had got a touch on it. Jerome then made a meal of it, so much so that he convinced the ref there hadn’t been contact. 

We got away with it, but didn’t deserve to lose. 

This is my biggest argument on a Saturday, everyone goes nuts about a decision but nobody thinks about the view from the refs angle. I'm forever pointing out to mates to look at as where the ref is and what he sees. Those commentating on TV should be using that angle before jumping to judgement. Also they should all have been calling out Jerome, his reaction was the biggest factor the penalty wasn't awarded. 

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Yes it was a definite penalty all day long, but for once the pundits called it right exaggerate and go down in a theatrical way and you run the risk of not getting your just deserts.

But as I said on a previous thread, about 5 minutes into the 2nd half we broke quickly down the right, a break that certainly had Curtis Davies struggling to get back into position, Diedhiou was powering towards the near post for the cross and Davies grabbed him with one arm around Diedhiou's neck, it stopped Diedhiou's run totally and went unseen/unmentioned by everybody, but it happened and it was a nailed on penalty.

 

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2 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Although Flints clearly catches him, perhaps the contact was not sufficient to cause him to trip so the exaggerated dying swan fall. I blame the belief fostered by the likes of Shearer, that if you feel contact you are entitled to go down. This I thing is wrong and not in the spirt of the game as to when you are actually fouled and therefore cannot stay on your feet, every little bit of contact is not necessarily a foul. 

Completely agree - this idea about players being "entitled" to fall over at the merest contact is one thing about the game that really annoys me.

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2 hours ago, finbarr_in_z said:

Big screen in Pride Park showed replays of all the controversial incidents pretty much immediately. I didn't think that was allowed. 

It's very much not allowed.

"34.4 Giant Screens. Except with the prior written consent of The League, giant screens or the like at a Club’s ground shall not be used to relay to spectators closed circuit pictures of the Match at which they are present. Any consent given under this Regulation shall be subject to the following conditions:

34.4.1 the screen shall be located so that it does not interfere with the Match at which it is used or distract the Players and Match Officials;

34.4.2 it shall be operated by a responsible person who is fully aware of the conditions covering its use;

34.4.3 the screen may be used to show live action and, when the ball is not in play, action replays of positive incidents; and

34.4.4 the screen shall not be used to show:

(a) action replays of negative or controversial incidents;

(b) any incident which may bring into question the judgement of any Match Official;

...

(e) any material which would tend to criticise, disparage, belittle or discredit The League, any Club or any Official, Player or Match Official or to bring the game into disrepute."

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-5--fixtures/

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3 hours ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

Although Flints clearly catches him, perhaps the contact was not sufficient to cause him to trip so the exaggerated dying swan fall. I blame the belief fostered by the likes of Shearer, that if you feel contact you are entitled to go down. This I thing is wrong and not in the spirt of the game as to when you are actually fouled and therefore cannot stay on your feet, every little bit of contact is not necessarily a foul. 

I agree with this, however one could argue that Flint didn't catch him, but it was the other was around - Jerome had time to see where Flint will be putting his leg, then ensure contact and do a dying swan, therefore he initiated it and not the Defender, well played Referee.

I'm watching the Brighton-Chelsea game and there were two incidents there which the Referee has refused to give, so maybe they are on the lookout for the cheats, and about time too!

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8 minutes ago, Coupon said:

I agree with this, however one could argue that Flint didn't catch him, but it was the other was around - Jerome had time to see where Flint will be putting his leg, then ensure contact and do a dying swan, therefore he initiated it and not the Defender, well played Referee.

I'm watching the Brighton-Chelsea game and there were two incidents there which the Referee has refused to give, so maybe they are on the lookout for the cheats, and about time too!

Yes David Pleat summed it up very well, regarding contact,  re:intentional and sustained. This brought me back to last night on reflection it was a very brave good decision by the ref.

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Clear penalty.

I think what has made it difficult for the ref is that the challenge seems to finish, then their player goes over like he is shot. Watching it live I thought it just looked like an outrageous dive, there was no follow through on the challenge to catch him. What was less obvious was that Flint ended up standing pretty much on his foot.

Got away with one, would have been annoyed if i had been the other way, but we all know it happens.

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There was contact and it could very easily been given but,  Jerome fouled Flint in the build up so shouldn't have come to that. Also if you watch the incident, imo he could easily have stayed on his feet and got  shot in. He make a conscious decision to throw both legs in the air and wave his arms around.
My first reaction was, shit he's given it. Not shit it's a pen. But it would be given 9 times out of 10.
I'm really pleased the Ref didn't give it, and not just for the obvious reason. I would love this exaggeration to be cut out of the game , it will make no difference of course , but I live in hope.

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