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Baker - Red Card


Bristol Rob

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A split second quicker and it's a great challenge. It's a fine line and it's not like he came through him straight legged over the top of the ball. He was always just going to "sweep" him up in the air if you like rather than do any serious damage. 

The crowd didn't help with the big "Oooohhhhhhh" as he took him out :D 

 

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So many irrelevant reasons for people saying why they think it’s a yellow. 

“He got the ball”

”Scowen made a meal of it”

”When Baker plays the ball Scowen isn’t in any danger”

”the crowd noise influenced the ref”

 

If both of your feet leave the ground (like Bakers did yesterday and like Batth’s did in the Wolves game) then the ref will send you off. You are no longer in control of your body and are essentially a dead weight which means you could do someone some real damaged as you couldn’t stop yourself. In the good old days yeah, it was pretty much a case of only having to get the ball first, but not now. The rules of the game have changed to protect the players. You’ve only got to see the reaction to an offside decision at a live game to see that a lot of fans don’t understand the newer changes that have been brought in. 

 

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42 minutes ago, jambodinho said:

So many irrelevant reasons for people saying why they think it’s a yellow. 

“He got the ball”

”Scowen made a meal of it”

”When Baker plays the ball Scowen isn’t in any danger”

”the crowd noise influenced the ref”

 

If both of your feet leave the ground (like Bakers did yesterday and like Batth’s did in the Wolves game) then the ref will send you off. You are no longer in control of your body and are essentially a dead weight which means you could do someone some real damaged as you couldn’t stop yourself. In the good old days yeah, it was pretty much a case of only having to get the ball first, but not now. The rules of the game have changed to protect the players. You’ve only got to see the reaction to an offside decision at a live game to see that a lot of fans don’t understand the newer changes that have been brought in. 

 

But offside is still offside isn't it? Sometimes it might be too close to call :)

Offside.thumb.jpg.2a9b09492482d7d87fcce04617266729.jpg
 

 

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1 hour ago, Sleepy1968 said:

But offside is still offside isn't it? Sometimes it might be too close to call :)

Offside.thumb.jpg.2a9b09492482d7d87fcce04617266729.jpg
 

 

Yeah. I meant with regards to when the Lino sticks his flag up. Lino’s get a load of stick now because the fans think they are late with a flag but the player isn’t offside until he interferes with play. Old rules meant if you were stood in an offside position the flag went up, even if the ball was nowhere near you. A fair few haven’t grasped that yet. 

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58 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said:

But offside is still offside isn't it? 

Whilst in this case Didgeredoo was offside being in an offside position isn't an offense per se (another one fans often call incorrectly.). It only becomes an infringement once one becomes active and seeks to gain an advantage from having been in that position, hence the furore we had (forget our player not long back) being given off inside our half. Crowd called the official all sorts save he was spot on.

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14 hours ago, BTRFTG said:

But Law 12 makes no reference to whether or not the ball is played before the player. If the official considers the player's actions Serious, Violent or Dangerous then it's a sending off. With both feet off the ground and coming from the side/rear Baker had no control over his movement and therefore whether his impact might harm his opponent. That's Dangerous and why he was correctly dismissed. Ref got a few things wrong today, but this wasn't one of them.

100% correct.

5 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Scowen arrived after Bakes had nicked the ball away . He was clearly looking to get Bakes sent off.

When Bakes plays the ball Scowen is not in any danger .

Sorry, but That’s rubbish Major, Baker didn’t even get the ball, and even if he did, see @BTRFTG‘s post on the laws.

2 hours ago, Kibs said:

A split second quicker and it's a great challenge. It's a fine line and it's not like he came through him straight legged over the top of the ball. He was always just going to "sweep" him up in the air if you like rather than do any serious damage. 

The crowd didn't help with the big "Oooohhhhhhh" as he took him out :D 

 

No, a split second earlier he may have played the ball, but it’s still a dangerous attempt, completely lost control the Moment he launches into the challenge.  He dies somehow retract his right leg to stop it looking like a typical two-footed lunge, but it was more like a lunging scissor movement.

Much earlier in this thread @JamesBCFC said QPR player did similar, two wrongs don’t make a right mate.

We should be being critical of Baker for a stupid challenge.

Just out of interest, Baker carrying knocks (from game before last, and only sub on Tuesday)...are we seeing a recurring theme of when he’s not totally 100% fit we see him having these poor decisions.

I think any appeal is frivolous.

If we get any luck, Stroud might report it in such a way as it will only be a 1 game ban.

Personally, I expect it to be a 3 game ban, and we have to suck it up.

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6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Scowen arrived after Bakes had nicked the ball away . He was clearly looking to get Bakes sent off.

When Bakes plays the ball Scowen is not in any danger .

I am also confused about people saying he was reckless. Even if late, he slides. It wasn’t two feet off the ground.

You cant judge something to be reckless by its outcome, it has to be the state of mind going into the challenge (obviously looking at outcome helps establish the state of mind given that the actual outcome was clearly included in a range of possible outcomes etc). The Mens Rae rather than the Actus Reus as it would be in criminal law. 

I thought it was late and no ball but still a controlled mistimed tackle that might trip rather than injure (Scowen wasn’t injured - see range of outcomes.) and therefore not reckless

i can see many thought it was and in some ways it’s refreshing that posters are beyond just merely partisan. 

I am in the “appeal” camp but accept I seem to be in the minority

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

No, a split second earlier he may have played the ball, but it’s still a dangerous attempt, completely lost control the Moment he launches into the challenge.  He dies somehow retract his right leg to stop it looking like a typical two-footed lunge, but it was more like a lunging scissor movement.

Much earlier in this thread @JamesBCFC said QPR player did similar, two wrongs don’t make a right mate.

We should be being critical of Baker for a stupid challenge.

I take your point but I’ll have to agree to disagree there I’m afraid. 

Its interesting because I’ve seen Baker make that same challenge 2 or 3 times this season (and I’ve missed a fair few games), but he wins the ball, and I don’t remember many (though happy to be corrected) criticisms of a dangerous tackle then. He is full blooded in his challenges. Always has been always will be. The only question for me is did he need to make it? Not how he made it.

I think Scowans reaction also has a lot to do with the decision. Grabbing his knee? Been on the end of many like that from big gert Centre half’s. And if it’s there to be won like it was, then it’s fair game for me!

I do agree that it would be a pointless appeal though, the Referee isn’t going to retract it. It’s one of those that some Refs will give. Seen people sent off for less and some get away with far worse. 

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@Kibs yeah, no probs, always good to have different views, these topics woukd end pretty quickly otherwise.  I do think refs bottle it if the player gets the ball though.

i was in the Landown Stand, kind of in the left back position if you get my drift, and I cringed when I saw him take off...he was mikes away when he launched himself, however he was on his way down :P by the time he made contact.

Just glad it didn’t cost us in what most of us saw as a must-win.

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4 hours ago, jambodinho said:

So many irrelevant reasons for people saying why they think it’s a yellow. 

“He got the ball”

”Scowen made a meal of it”

”When Baker plays the ball Scowen isn’t in any danger”

”the crowd noise influenced the ref”

 

If both of your feet leave the ground (like Bakers did yesterday and like Batth’s did in the Wolves game) then the ref will send you off. You are no longer in control of your body and are essentially a dead weight which means you could do someone some real damaged as you couldn’t stop yourself. In the good old days yeah, it was pretty much a case of only having to get the ball first, but not now. The rules of the game have changed to protect the players. You’ve only got to see the reaction to an offside decision at a live game to see that a lot of fans don’t understand the newer changes that have been brought in. 

 

That's all well and good but I raise you Cardiff vs Man City. ;) 

 

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30 minutes ago, gordie said:

Just shows with all the differing opinions if it was red yellow or nothing how hard it is going to be to implement VAR effectively.

VAR isn’t the answer in subjective decisions.

The goal-line stuff works, because it’s black or white decision, no interpretation needed.

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2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

@Davefevs my point about the QPR player doing the same is about consistancy.

How can one player be red carded and one player not even spoken to for the same types of tackle?

Now that I agree with, I still think Bakers was a red but it was a cynical foul through the back of Diony ( I think) and if I remember never even got a yellow, there is always going to be a bit of inconsistencies between referees but for a ref to be so inconsistent in a single game is pretty poor

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2 minutes ago, gordie said:

Now that I agree with, I still think Bakers was a red but it was a cynical foul through the back of Diony ( I think) and if I remember never even got a yellow, there is always going to be a bit of inconsistencies between referees but for a ref to be so inconsistent in a single game is pretty poor

I was actually thinking of a different one.

I was sat front row of the South Stand and the one on Diony was a horrible malicious foul with no intent of winning the ball, but there was a tackle first half in front on the Atyeo where I could see the QPR player clearly left the ground jumping in.

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5 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

I was actually thinking of a different one.

I was sat front row of the South Stand and the one on Diony was a horrible malicious foul with no intent of winning the ball, but there was a tackle first half in front on the Atyeo where I could see the QPR player clearly left the ground jumping in.

Who was involved, can’t recall that.

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4 hours ago, fairweather said:

I am also confused about people saying he was reckless. Even if late, he slides. It wasn’t two feet off the ground.

Jeez, look at the footage (no pun intended.) Baker flies in both knees raised feet well above the turf. 

You also keep referencing recklessness, which unless it was DOGSO (clearly it wasn't) CANNOT result in dismissal. The only point in appealling would be were the official recorded him as being dismissed for reckless behaviour, though I fully expect the report to state Dangerous Play. Truly amazing people (including ex-player pundits) watch so much football and remain ignorant of The Laws.

Rather than focus on a great and gutsy performance the talk's all about a moment of non-intended madness. Take the consequence and move on.

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5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Sorry, but That’s rubbish Major, Baker didn’t even get the ball, and even if he did, see @BTRFTG‘s post on the laws

@JamesBCFC

Davefevs is right and could have gone on to point out whether or not one makes contact is, to a large extent, immaterial. If the official concludes a player INTENDED to perform a Serious, Violent or Dangerous action the punishment is always dismissal, contact is not required.

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7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Davefevs is right and could have gone on to point out whether or not one makes contact is, to a large extent, immaterial. If the official concludes a player INTENDED to perform a Serious, Violent or Dangerous action the punishment is always dismissal, contact is not required.

Not something Dickie Rooks ever had to worry about much eh BT ?  :laugh:

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34 minutes ago, AppyDAZE said:

Not something Dickie Rooks ever had to worry about much eh BT ?  :laugh:

Ha! As and when contact was made talk was not of dismissal but how long would it take for the ambulance to arrive? Note the Laws were both different and with more flexible interpretation in those days.

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2 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Ha! As and when contact was made talk was not of dismissal but how long would it take for the ambulance to arrive? Note the Laws were both different and with more flexible interpretation in those days.

Times have certainly changed. Seems like yesterday to us old folks that we were proud of our Normans, our Gerry Gows...  the game has gone soft

VAR   ffs   come on..

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