Interesting comments by Freeman

[JamesBCFC]

30 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Interesting! No more than 2 QI points. 

Thats more than Alan Davies after however many shows thats had now.

[hoxton casual]

Great player for us and who can still can cut it in the Championship. Yes he is disappointed not be at City, as I believe he was maneuvered out of the club very effectively as he did not fit the new regime. The club did not want to come across as getting rid of a player, who may have had a lot support from sections of the fans. The management did not need negative PR, in the situation we faced at the time. Players who the fans love/respect, /appreciate actually can still want a move for more money. They are human beings looking after their family, and one big contract can set them and their family up for life, especially if they have moved up from the lower leagues. I think it is different in the Premier League, in that a young player can be set up for life with his first big contract on establishing himself in the first team. After that, the money becomes so silly that buying your mum a house is not even a thought, and then with money no longer a concern the player's loyalty can be balanced with success. I think Gerard was in this situation. It will be interesting to see what happens with Kane. If he believes Spurs can win the Premier and get regular CL he may stay, if he doesnt, then even he may leave. 

In the lower leagues ideally they want success AND money, and maybe Freeman thought he had a better chance of both with QPR, and many would have agreed with him last year. Johnson and Ashton have been proved right getting rid of him, but Freeman is still a very good footballer, who I loved watching for years. I still remember him playing for Stevenage against us and he was a different class. Who doesn't love a winger who can beat people? I think he is also a quiet bloke and was very close to Ayling and him leaving may have affected him.

I wish him the best of luck and thank him for the memories, but quickly my mind moves back to Paterson, ODowda and Kent who are also amazing wingers, who I love watching. Football is a profession not a vocation for those that make their living from it, and these things happen. It is very different for us fans, and I am glad I dont have to make the tough decisions that management have to take - as @Fordy says, I would be a terrible manager. I am very glad Johnson and Ashton are making mostly the right ones at the moment, and whilst I believe Johnson is generally a decent human being, he is also a winner and make the right call when needed. If we get promoted, he is going to have to make a lot more of these ruthless decisions and I am glad it is not me.

[Major Isewater]

2 hours ago, tinman85 said:

Patterson head and shoulders above him

Head, shoulders and torso .

[KnowleUtd City]

9 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

For all of Lee’s good points this is the same man who pretty much claimed Aden Flint wanted to leave while offering him around for £4 million in the summer. Given Freeman has nothing to gain from his quotes, and the Flint saga, I’d trust him over LJ/club spin.

Also at Freeman, who has more assists than anyone else in the division this season, being not good enough for a decent Championship club.

I couldn't care less if the club spin things a bit, if the end result is beneficial to the club, look where we are at this stage compared to last year, keep spinning lads!!

[Unan]

QPR fans say the only reason he has a lot of assists is because of the extreme lack of creativity in the time & the amount of time he is on the ball he should do much better.

 

"He has good stats but he’s a greedy show pony he’s not for me. I know people won’t agree "

"Westy. I am with you see him as a selfish player as not disimilar to Chery in that it is all about him. Said we should have dropped him before christmas as clearly not as good as some think or more importantly how good he thinks he is. "

"Freeman worst player on pitch for me and has been worst player for five or six matches. I’m in minority but I don’t rate him think he’s s hit"

"Thank fark someone else thinks he's a shite taarabt at least with adel you knew he was never going to track back but would be far far more creative "

"Was going make that comparison. For the amount of ball he has and how greedy he is his stats should probably be better "

"Might be a better team without him if that makes sense "

[Kid in the Riot]

2 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

When the club were touting him around and made it clear they wanted him out, of course his head wasn’t in things. Would you be ready to perform at your best if you were told your employers didn’t want you any more?

Look, it’s football. But given that’s what happened with Flint, it’s absolutely possible Freeman is telling the truth. He has no reason to lie.

Of course most people will swallow what the club say over any old players or random forum members, but at least remember everything that is written and spoken through the website is PR.

Correct!!

[Bristol_South_End]

I always felt Freeman's situation went like this: signed a 3 year deal at the start of 14/15 season, played fantastically that year. 15/16 had an absolutely terrible season, as a lot of our League One-winning squad did, the club decided to wait to offer a new deal as they were unsure Freeman could make the step-up to the Championship. 16/17 season, we signed more wide players in the summer (COD and Pato), Freeman was still given a chance and played well the first half of the season (Fulham away was a particularly stand-out performance). We decided moving into the last 6 months of his contract he'd shown he was capable of a place in the squad so offered him a new deal but under the proviso that he would be rotated with our other wide players as opposed to being a guaranteed starter as he was the previous 2 seasons, this probably meant he wasn't offered a "first-choice" wage. Freeman got the offer from QPR where he was guaranteed to play pretty much every game and decided to leave. 

 

Don't think the club or the player did anything wrong. We wouldn't have been happy if Freeman had been offered a new deal in the summer of 2016 based on his first season in the Championship with us, and Freeman left to play for a club where he was guaranteed to be a first choice starter every match.

[Redrascal2]

Sour grapes.

[Dullmoan Tone]

Don't remember him doing anything more than take set pieces and commit fouls on Saturday - no-one sat around me was disappointed he wasn't in red.

[Merrick's Marvels]

13 hours ago, Leveller said:

Which all suggests the “not up to Championship level” comments are well wide of the mark.

 

I'm afraid it doesn't.

What it actually suggests is that Fulham are currently run by a bunch of nutjobs. Instead of trusting their manager - a football man - to choose the players he thinks are good enough and who he has to coach, recruitment at Fulham is run by a suit with a laptop and they base their recruitment on stats and stats alone!

So, faced with the scenario of losing Cairney, Fulham have looked at their laptop for a left footed midfielder with good stats (ie. most assists in the Championship) and the laptop has said "Luke Freeman".

That's all that's happened here. The disagreements between manager and suits at Fulham as a result of this farcical state of affairs are public knowledge.

5 hours ago, E.G.Red said:

And yet Fulham are reportedly prepared to pay£4m for him. 

Might be a good move and the football they play might suit him better

The football they play might well suit Freeman but, if you asked a football person instead of a computer, what the evidence of their own eyes told them over a number of games watching him, I'd be very surprised if they thought Freeman was good enough to start regularly for a team wanting top 6 finishes in the Championship.

The lad did ever so well for us in L1 but he isn't the first player to have contributed significantly to a  promotion from the third tier and then failed to cut it at the next level up. It just makes him the next Glenn Humphries or Robbie Turner (other examples are available).

[LondonBristolian]

I've said this before but I think part of the problem is that these things turn into a "someone must be lying" and "someone must be telling the truth" aspect where actually nobody needs to be lying and it may be a question of perspectives. 

It is perfectly plausible that the club were undecided on Freeman after his first year in the Championship and held off on offering Freeman a contract until two or three months into last season and then, when he got agitated and restless as a result, offered a contract and feel they made an offer that reflected his worth whereas, from Freeman's perspective, that looked like refusing to offering him a contract and then the offer which the club felt was fair, he felt did not reflect his value to the team. Nobody need be lying - it's just two different perspectives.

Similarly with Flint, it seems very possible his agent made some unwise noises or put feelers out to find out what the interest was elsewhere to try and get some leverage with the club, the club read this as Flint not being committed and investigated possible buyers. From the club's point of view, it was Flint wanting to leave but, from Flint's point of view, the club were trying to get rid of him. Again there does not need to be anyone lying and both versions could be true.

I think the problem with certain posters on here who perceive themselves to be 'in the know' is that, in all probability, they know one side of the story and how things happened from one perspective. Which is fine, but does not mean that that version is the whole truth. 

Of course the club puts a PR spin on things but, with both Freeman and Flint, I do find the constant insinuation the club or the player must not be telling the truth a bit odd as there is nothing in either version of events that rules out another perspective being equally true.

What we do know, however, is that Johnson gambled on losing Freeman and we are a better player for it. The club signed Baker, presumably at least partially in anticipation of the possibility of losing Flint, and we are a better player for that too. We do not know what is going on behind the scenes but, whilst no club is going to keep every player happy 100% of the time, we have to conclude the club is generally playing its cards well as we are getting outcomes that work well for us. 

[LondonBristolian]

31 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I'm afraid it doesn't.

What it actually suggests is that Fulham are currently run by a bunch of nutjobs. Instead of trusting their manager - a football man - to choose the players he thinks are good enough and who he has to coach, recruitment at Fulham is run by a suit with a laptop and they base their recruitment on stats and stats alone!

So, faced with the scenario of losing Cairney, Fulham have looked at their laptop for a left footed midfielder with good stats (ie. most assists in the Championship) and the laptop has said "Luke Freeman".

That's all that's happened here. The disagreements between manager and suits at Fulham as a result of this farcical state of affairs are public knowledge.

The football they play might well suit Freeman but, if you asked a football person instead of a computer, what the evidence of their own eyes told them over a number of games watching him, I'd be very surprised if they thought Freeman was good enough to start regularly for a team wanting top 6 finishes in the Championship.

The lad did ever so well for us in L1 but he isn't the first player to have contributed significantly to a  promotion from the third tier and then failed to cut it at the next level up. It just makes him the next Glenn Humphries or Robbie Turner (other examples are available).

If Fulham are using stats (which we do a lot too) you can be pretty certain this will not be as simplistic as going for the player with the most assists. It will be a lot more in-depth than that.

I think stats have a huge role to play in player recruitment at many clubs these days and generally that is a good thing, as long as you remember it is a human observing the data and feeding into a computer...

[Merrick's Marvels]

54 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

If Fulham are using stats (which we do a lot too) you can be pretty certain this will not be as simplistic as going for the player with the most assists. It will be a lot more in-depth than that.

I think stats have a huge role to play in player recruitment at many clubs these days and generally that is a good thing, as long as you remember it is a human observing the data and feeding into a computer...

City use data analysis as well, of course, to draw up a list of targets but then Lee Johnson and his lieutenants (Tinnion, Day etc) watch those players before deciding which one, if any, to sign. 

The impression I've got from reading about Fulham is that data analysis produces a name who is then signed and presented to the manager.  There has been at least one example - this season - of their manager publicly stating he thinks a signing they've made isn't good enough/who he wanted. Frankly, I'm not sure how he works under thoss conditions but the more discord it creates behind the scenes, the unhappier their manager is, the better for us (unfortunately, they seem to have got their act together and are coming up strong on the rails behind us, just like their late run last season)

[REDOXO]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Isn't he the leading assist provider in Championship this season? Right up there anyway.

Not knocking the sale of him, shame it didn't work for us with him at this level really.

Yes he is. He is a very good player despite what some may think. QPR think they got a right bargain which they did. However I have a good memory and what Luke Freeman is saying is spinning what happened. 

Would he get in the current team/squad. Yeah on his day. But we have bought and developed players to play the 'Freeman role' so he would have to be at the top of his game to get game time. 

[Vincent Vega]

4 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Head, shoulders and torso .

Knees and toes

[Robin1988]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Similarly with Flint, it seems very possible his agent made some unwise noises or put feelers out to find out what the interest was elsewhere to try and get some leverage with the club, the club read this as Flint not being committed and investigated possible buyers. From the club's point of view, it was Flint wanting to leave but, from Flint's point of view, the club were trying to get rid of him. Again there does not need to be anyone lying and both versions could be true.

It's simpler than that - LJ didn't rate him. I think my thought process followed a similar line to yours, why would they want to get rid of him, but hearing that answer was staggering after how he finished last season.

[LondonBristolian]

4 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

It's simpler than that - LJ didn't rate him. I think my thought process followed a similar line to yours, why would they want to get rid of him, but hearing that answer was staggering after how he finished last season.

Again, what is your basis with this? As it seems out of keeping with statements made by Flint, as well as by the club. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but it seems a bit surprising given that, even with our defence being all at sea last season, Flint seemed to be the one player who was never dropped and, again this season - once it was confirmed he was staying - I don't think there is a minute when he has been fit but was not selected. 

I also find it odd that he has given interviews where he talks about LJ being really helpful during that period and admitting he want to earn as much as possible to look after his family:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-defender-aden-flint-623974

I mean I know, Flint is no fool and unlikely to to badmouth the club or the manager but he could say nothing at all seems to have been way more positive than he needs to be if the club wanted rid of him.

I have no idea what information you have, and it may have course be you know something you don't but it does seem out of keeping with LJ's selection record and Flint's own comments:

I suppose my question is whether what you know is the facts of what happened or how somebody within the club has chosen to interpret said facts?

[Robin1988]

17 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Again, what is your basis with this? As it seems out of keeping with statements made by Flint, as well as by the club. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but it seems a bit surprising given that, even with our defence being all at sea last season, Flint seemed to be the one player who was never dropped and, again this season - once it was confirmed he was staying - I don't think there is a minute when he has been fit but was not selected. 

I also find it odd that he has given interviews where he talks about LJ being really helpful during that period and admitting he want to earn as much as possible to look after his family:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-defender-aden-flint-623974

I mean I know, Flint is no fool and unlikely to to badmouth the club or the manager but he could say nothing at all seems to have been way more positive than he needs to be if the club wanted rid of him.

I have no idea what information you have, and it may have course be you know something you don't but it does seem out of keeping with LJ's selection record and Flint's own comments:

I suppose my question is whether what you know is the facts of what happened or how somebody within the club has chosen to interpret said facts?

To be fair, there's nothing in that article that disputes it. He says he and LJ kept in touch, and in response to another question he says earning is important.

I was told from within the club, I don't think it's something that can really be misconstrued. But equally we are in danger of hijacking this wonderful thread and turning it into a Flint one!

[havanatopia]

Why give us a link to a public conveniences web site with the door locked?

[Jack Dawe]

4 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

If Fulham are using stats (which we do a lot too) you can be pretty certain this will not be as simplistic as going for the player with the most assists. It will be a lot more in-depth than that.

I think stats have a huge role to play in player recruitment at many clubs these days and generally that is a good thing, as long as you remember it is a human observing the data and feeding into a computer...

And that human at Fulham was, up until the end of October, an American "data specialist," Craig Kline, a college friend of the owner's son. The owner and son also being Septics, with a short background of NFL involvement. By all accounts, data specialist and first team coach/manager did not see eye to eye.

Signings had to be signed off/agreed by Brian Talbot, and the American data specialist buddy of the owner's son.

When he was finally fired, following a series of bust ups and rows with other club staff, the American data specialist nerd/ best pal of the owner's son called the Met plod to the training ground.

It's certainly been lively at Fulham on the recruitment front under the current owner.

 

Freeman must've played and caught the eye in our series of wins at Fulham. He scored there last season.

 

[awbb]

Fulham are the only team where I have but the most fleeting of ITK with a colleagues son working there in some analysis capacity. 

My suggestion of a Freeman for Matt Smith straight swap was met with derision. I honestly can’t remember when we discussed that though! Feels like last week but probably towards the end of the summer 2015 transfer window. 

[Leveller]

6 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

I'm afraid it doesn't.

What it actually suggests is that Fulham are currently run by a bunch of nutjobs. Instead of trusting their manager - a football man - to choose the players he thinks are good enough and who he has to coach, recruitment at Fulham is run by a suit with a laptop and they base their recruitment on stats and stats alone!

So, faced with the scenario of losing Cairney, Fulham have looked at their laptop for a left footed midfielder with good stats (ie. most assists in the Championship) and the laptop has said "Luke Freeman".

That's all that's happened here. The disagreements between manager and suits at Fulham as a result of this farcical state of affairs are public knowledge.

The football they play might well suit Freeman but, if you asked a football person instead of a computer, what the evidence of their own eyes told them over a number of games watching him, I'd be very surprised if they thought Freeman was good enough to start regularly for a team wanting top 6 finishes in the Championship.

The lad did ever so well for us in L1 but he isn't the first player to have contributed significantly to a  promotion from the third tier and then failed to cut it at the next level up. It just makes him the next Glenn Humphries or Robbie Turner (other examples are available).

If Fulham are being run by nutjobs it has to be said that luck is favouring them as they are hot on our heels, despite our win there.

They must be doing something right, unless the manager is turning all their sows ears into silk purses.

[SedRA]

6 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I've said this before but I think part of the problem is that these things turn into a "someone must be lying" and "someone must be telling the truth" aspect where actually nobody needs to be lying and it may be a question of perspectives. 

It is perfectly plausible that the club were undecided on Freeman after his first year in the Championship and held off on offering Freeman a contract until two or three months into last season and then, when he got agitated and restless as a result, offered a contract and feel they made an offer that reflected his worth whereas, from Freeman's perspective, that looked like refusing to offering him a contract and then the offer which the club felt was fair, he felt did not reflect his value to the team. Nobody need be lying - it's just two different perspectives.

Similarly with Flint, it seems very possible his agent made some unwise noises or put feelers out to find out what the interest was elsewhere to try and get some leverage with the club, the club read this as Flint not being committed and investigated possible buyers. From the club's point of view, it was Flint wanting to leave but, from Flint's point of view, the club were trying to get rid of him. Again there does not need to be anyone lying and both versions could be true.

I think the problem with certain posters on here who perceive themselves to be 'in the know' is that, in all probability, they know one side of the story and how things happened from one perspective. Which is fine, but does not mean that that version is the whole truth. 

Of course the club puts a PR spin on things but, with both Freeman and Flint, I do find the constant insinuation the club or the player must not be telling the truth a bit odd as there is nothing in either version of events that rules out another perspective being equally true.

What we do know, however, is that Johnson gambled on losing Freeman and we are a better player for it. The club signed Baker, presumably at least partially in anticipation of the possibility of losing Flint, and we are a better player for that too. We do not know what is going on behind the scenes but, whilst no club is going to keep every player happy 100% of the time, we have to conclude the club is generally playing its cards well as we are getting outcomes that work well for us. 

Very good post. 

[alexukhc]

What about JET? Where is JET?

[Alessandro]

7 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Again, what is your basis with this? As it seems out of keeping with statements made by Flint, as well as by the club. I'm not necessarily saying you are wrong but it seems a bit surprising given that, even with our defence being all at sea last season, Flint seemed to be the one player who was never dropped and, again this season - once it was confirmed he was staying - I don't think there is a minute when he has been fit but was not selected. 

I also find it odd that he has given interviews where he talks about LJ being really helpful during that period and admitting he want to earn as much as possible to look after his family:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-defender-aden-flint-623974

I mean I know, Flint is no fool and unlikely to to badmouth the club or the manager but he could say nothing at all seems to have been way more positive than he needs to be if the club wanted rid of him.

I have no idea what information you have, and it may have course be you know something you don't but it does seem out of keeping with LJ's selection record and Flint's own comments:

I suppose my question is whether what you know is the facts of what happened or how somebody within the club has chosen to interpret said facts?

Hang on there - don’t go using Aden Flint’s very own words to try and deny the fact that the club were forcing him out last January. That’s the truth the ITKers have told us, isnt it. Lee Johnson doesn’t think he is good enough, that’s why he never picks him (oh, sorry did you say ‘ever present’?) - his stats aren’t good enough, so we want to cash in on him (despite the fact we’ve rejected offers in every window......hmmmmmmm).

Unless of course the club are holding a gun to his head and this article is him towing the party line now.....we know the club spin everything after all.

Sorry, me and my spoon again.

[reddoh]

8 hours ago, Vincent Vega said:

Knees and toes

don't be a sloppy poster

and hands and ears and eyes and nose

[JasonM88]

2 hours ago, alexukhc said:

What about JET? Where is JET?

Seems to have fallen out of football completely, unfortunately.

[Robin1988]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

Hang on there - don’t go using Aden Flint’s very own words to try and deny the fact that the club were forcing him out last January. That’s the truth the ITKers have told us, isnt it. Lee Johnson doesn’t think he is good enough, that’s why he never picks him (oh, sorry did you say ‘ever present’?) - his stats aren’t good enough, so we want to cash in on him (despite the fact we’ve rejected offers in every window......hmmmmmmm).

Unless of course the club are holding a gun to his head and this article is him towing the party line now.....we know the club spin everything after all.

Sorry, me and my spoon again.

Can you point me to the line where denies the club were forcing him out in the summer as my eyes must be failing me in my old age @Alessandro (don't know where you got January from, do you know something you're not letting on?)

[Alessandro]

6 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

Can you point me to the line where denies the club were forcing him out in the summer as my eyes must be failing me in my old age @Alessandro (don't know where you got January from, do you know something you're not letting on?)

PM’d

[GreedyHarry]

Anybody see Freeman aim spit at the crowd in the South stand and Lansdown corner after he got berated for diving.