Casual, Toothless and Sloppy

[stephenkibby.]

4 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

This is exactly the reason why I don't come on here after a defeat. We played quite well ffs, should have had possibly 2 pens but tonight we were missing that little bit of extra quality. I'm not too bothered by it. Onto the next one.

As much as I have or never will slag of any of our players, sorry no we didn't play Quite well. Anyway what dose playing quite well mean?

We didn't play well and got what we deserved.

[Spike]

I'm surprised to see people insulting Kent's performance, I thought he looked up for it, went at Bolton but just didn't have the space or options when he got into the final third. I think the biggest issue is still the defence. Wright is OK in the middle but having Korey on the right just took away one of our hardest working and best positioned midfielders. We should have got a RB and possibly even a Lb too, plenty of fans saw it the same way and still do. YES Pisano may be back soon but we're still short in defence and it showed tonight. Bryan should be in the midfield and Wright and Korey so not suit  that RB position in the style we play. 

 

I think tonight came down to too much having to put square pegs in round holes due to Baker being out and the squad not having enough defensive quality in depth. 

[CityCiderEd]

17 minutes ago, Up The City! said:

This is exactly the reason why I don't come on here after a defeat. We played quite well ffs, should have had possibly 2 pens but tonight we were missing that little bit of extra quality. I'm not too bothered by it. Onto the next one.

Penalty shouts aside,we were bloody awful tonight. Probably the most predictable performance I've seen from us for a while. Too many players struggled to make an impact and the team looked disjointed. 

[Trueredsupporter]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

He was asleep AGAIN,  the number of times he's switched off is shocking, cost us tonight 

It was seventy metres from goal. 

[Major Isewater]

13 hours ago, Alessandro said:

To be fair Bolton scored the only time they tested Steele.

Without getting sucked into a blame game - I thought Maggers had a pretty shocking turn tonight. Looked anxious and vulnerable - was it his mis-control in the box that started the break they scored from?

Oh I expect he had something to do with our loss . Right from kick off he looked awful.

 I believe Mags is also responsible for the rise of terrorism, North Korea's nuclear menace and lack of toilet paper in the gents .

[Alessandro]

14 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

Oh I expect he had something to do with our loss . Right from kick off he looked awful.

 I believe Mags is also responsible for the rise of terrorism, North Korea's nuclear menace and lack of toilet paper in the gents .

I also blame Hörður for the PA system in the Dolman and those lights around the ground ruining the view of the game at night.

And global warming

[BigTone]

Sorry, saw the thread title and thought you were talking about one of my old girlfriends

[Harry]

Magnússon didn’t do anything wrong last night. The only players who should receive criticism last night are :

Brownhill - never as effective when played centrally, and has been woefully out of form since he highlighted his hair. 

Famara - whilst he can sometimes cause a bit of a nuisance his touch was awful last night. I think he managed to control, hold and lay-off twice last night. Dreadful return for a supposed target man. 

Pato - another who’s on a poor run of form. Didn’t effect the game positively at all. 

Bryan - our poorest player on the night. Seemed to be playing with his head in the clouds. Gave possession away far too easily on numerous occasions, did a “maggers” in first half which nearly presented them a goal, opportunities to cross were executed poorly, corners were overhit, and as for the goal, in 10 seconds Bryan summed up the criticism I’ve levelled at him which everyone else seems to conveniently miss. Three things I criticise in his game all came together at once :

1) Doesn’t react quickly or have speed of thought. This was evident when the ball broke his way, but he hesitated and let Ameobi steal 2-3 yards on him to get to the challenge first. 

2) Doesn’t sense danger early enough. Evident in their goal where he didn’t seem to realise his position on the field as being the last person between our attack and our defence until it was too late for him to react. 

3) Doesn’t bust a gut to get back. This has always been my biggest criticism of Joe. Last night, Ameobi ran over 50 yards with the ball, Joe ran 3-quarter pace behind him and never got any closer. He should’ve been hammering it full pelt to get back goal-side of Ameobi and force him wide or at least get in his way. 

If a Prem club were scouting Bryan yesterday, they won’t be coming back to watch him again. 

[supercidered]

13 hours ago, watkins1983 said:

Joe getting lots of stick for the goal. Gave the ball away in opposition half. Ameboi not pressed and was a great finish. But not silly defending, he could do that 10 times over and not score 

I love Joe but he almost looked like he had been on Spice tonight. Bloody awful! If there is a player in massive credit though... he is defo one of them.

[77 punk]

spot on harry with your assessment of joe bryan he has big traits on his positional play 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Last night was IMHO down to LJ.

1). The folly of not signing a right back was exposed and was exacerbated by having to make our best midfield player play there, allowing Bolton to get a foothold in midfield and bully us all night.

2). The bullying was even more exacerbated by taking off Pack, a ridiculous decision IMO.

3). Picking Paterson despite him playing like a drain for several weeks now.

4). Several weeks ago LJ made the comment about over complicating in and around the opponents box and trying to score the 'perfect goal' but it is still a symptom of every game.

5). We need urgent work on our free kick delivery that is unambitious and piss poor.

6). Allowing Paterson and Kent to cut inside into heavy traffic for most of the night.

Now I agree that Bryan had an unusually off day, Paterson was poor (again) but I will defend Diedhiou, Reid and Diony the service supplied to them was absolutely shocking.

LJ was correct to highlight their goal as being an individual mistake, however I really think he should have assumed his responsibility for last night, I am surprised and disappointed that he hasn't done that.

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 hours ago, Up The City! said:

This is exactly the reason why I don't come on here after a defeat. We played quite well ffs, should have had possibly 2 pens but tonight we were missing that little bit of extra quality. I'm not too bothered by it. Onto the next one.

And yet you came on here after a defeat....you couldn’t resist a peek could you?!!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

14 hours ago, Robbored said:

LJ was very forthright post match. " Credit to Bolton but I'm  disappointed with my team, they wanted it more than us. Players pulling out of tackles" 

No surprise he's pretty pissed off with his team but fair play for coming out and saying it as it was.

I agree but he should also have taken his portion of blame as well, he got it badly wrong as well.

[Cowshed]

46 minutes ago, Harry said:

 

1) Doesn’t react quickly or have speed of thought. This was evident when the ball broke his way, but he hesitated and let Ameobi steal 2-3 yards on him to get to the challenge first. 

2) Doesn’t sense danger early enough. Evident in their goal where he didn’t seem to realise his position on the field as being the last person between our attack and our defence until it was too late for him to react. 

3) Doesn’t bust a gut to get back. This has always been my biggest criticism of Joe. Last night, Ameobi ran over 50 yards with the ball, Joe ran 3-quarter pace behind him and never got any closer. He should’ve been hammering it full pelt to get back goal-side of Ameobi and force him wide or at least get in his way. 

If a Prem club were scouting Bryan yesterday, they won’t be coming back to watch him again. 

You are increasing coming across as you want that to be the case in your regular criticism of this player.

Ameobi ran over 50 yards with the ball v a defence that was not outnumbered. No player sought to control the pace in front of him. Youth teams now better,

[Robbored]

12 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I agree but he should also have taken his portion of blame as well, he got it badly wrong as well.

Very few, if any managers hold their hands up and admit they made the wrong decision whether it be selection, formation or tactics.

if they did then there's a danger of undermining their own ability to actually do the job.

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, Harry said:

Magnússon didn’t do anything wrong last night. The only players who should receive criticism last night are :

Brownhill - never as effective when played centrally, and has been woefully out of form since he highlighted his hair. 

Famara - whilst he can sometimes cause a bit of a nuisance his touch was awful last night. I think he managed to control, hold and lay-off twice last night. Dreadful return for a supposed target man. 

Pato - another who’s on a poor run of form. Didn’t effect the game positively at all. 

Bryan - our poorest player on the night. Seemed to be playing with his head in the clouds. Gave possession away far too easily on numerous occasions, did a “maggers” in first half which nearly presented them a goal, opportunities to cross were executed poorly, corners were overhit, and as for the goal, in 10 seconds Bryan summed up the criticism I’ve levelled at him which everyone else seems to conveniently miss. Three things I criticise in his game all came together at once :

1) Doesn’t react quickly or have speed of thought. This was evident when the ball broke his way, but he hesitated and let Ameobi steal 2-3 yards on him to get to the challenge first. 

2) Doesn’t sense danger early enough. Evident in their goal where he didn’t seem to realise his position on the field as being the last person between our attack and our defence until it was too late for him to react. 

3) Doesn’t bust a gut to get back. This has always been my biggest criticism of Joe. Last night, Ameobi ran over 50 yards with the ball, Joe ran 3-quarter pace behind him and never got any closer. He should’ve been hammering it full pelt to get back goal-side of Ameobi and force him wide or at least get in his way. 

If a Prem club were scouting Bryan yesterday, they won’t be coming back to watch him again. 

Not all of us conveniently miss these things....but I also think that he doesn’t always show those traits in every game, and there are many other plus points to his game.  But when he has an off-Day, it really shows.  Last night was one of those games where he had a ‘beast’!

I think a couple of weeks ago someone suggested that with Rose and Bertrand either injured or out of form, that Joe might get a call up.  I think some other left back in the Championship (Sessegnon) would get selected way ahead of Joe, notwithstanding Cresswell, Gibbs, Shaw (more debatable I know), Chilwell, and that’s without thinking too hard.

He is not your typical LB.  He’s having a very good season, but he has deficiencies.  He gets away with these by things like pace, strength etc, but sometimes you mess up.

It is about ensuring your opponent doesn’t exploit (or know) those weaknesses.

Rare to find a perfect LB or any position for that matter.  Flint, for his dominance in the air, doesn’t like to get too tight on the deck, so he tries not to get into those scenarios. Fielding, for his shot stopping skills and reflexes isn’t commanding of his area.  Pack for his passing, heading etc, lacks pace.

Its kinda why these players are at this level, and it’s kinda why you can drill a team of decent players to perform well as a collective rather than adding the individual abilities.

What we’ve done this season is get an upturn out of the vast majority of our players by playing a certain drilled way.  Thus us what your PNEs, your Brentfords etc have been doing, and we couldn’t understand how they did it on their budgets / standing.  We’ve found the way, Plus we have a bit more in the way of resources.

Back to Joe....he will continue to frustrate you, because you recognise the deficiencies and you spot them in-game.  Same way I see things in Flint’s game, but we both have to also be grateful for the good / great things they can do too, and balance that.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Very few, if any managers hold their hands up and admit they made the wrong decision whether it be selection, formation or tactics.

if they did then there's a danger of undermining their own ability to actually do the job.

And here's me thinking that you admired the fact that LJ was honest, different and a breath of fresh air.

As for the 2nd part there is also a danger of undermining the players, when not admitting your own part in a poor all round performance and boy he played his part last night.

[Harry]

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You are increasing coming across as you want that to be the case in your regular criticism of this player

Not at all mate. I’d happily cash in on Joe whilst he’s at a false value. £15mill some folks think we can get for him. I’d be very happy with that. Think more realistically we’re talking £3m-£5m. Depends if a prem club were to do proper due diligence and hugely in depth scouting on him, rather than just look at stats and hype. At the moment he’s a hugely overhyped player, so if we can take advantage of that and inflate his transfer value then great. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Not all of us conveniently miss these things....but I also think that he doesn’t always show those traits in every game, and there are many other plus points to his game.  But when he has an off-Day, it really shows.  Last night was one of those games where he had a ‘beast’!

I think a couple of weeks ago someone suggested that with Rose and Bertrand either injured or out of form, that Joe might get a call up.  I think some other left back in the Championship (Sessegnon) would get selected way ahead of Joe, notwithstanding Cresswell, Gibbs, Shaw (more debatable I know), Chilwell, and that’s without thinking too hard.

He is not your typical LB.  He’s having a very good season, but he has deficiencies.  He gets away with these by things like pace, strength etc, but sometimes you mess up.

It is about ensuring your opponent doesn’t exploit (or know) those weaknesses.

Rare to find a perfect LB or any position for that matter.  Flint, for his dominance in the air, doesn’t like to get too tight on the deck, so he tries not to get into those scenarios. Fielding, for his shot stopping skills and reflexes isn’t commanding of his area.  Pack for his passing, heading etc, lacks pace.

Back to Joe....he will continue to frustrate you, because you recognise the deficiencies and you spot them in-game.  Same way I see things in Flint’s game, but we both have to also be grateful for the good / great things they can do too, and balance that.

Yes, agree on most of that mate. 

I will concede that I am probably harsher in my criticism of Joe, likely because 99% of fans think he is impeccable and can do no wrong, so I think he is hugely overhyped by most and thus I probably find myself having to counter that ‘pro-Joe’ feeling more vociferously. 

Yes, there are some very good aspects to his game, but the errors he makes he does not appear to be learning from. I’ve said all along there are 3 areas of improvement for him - speed of thought, sensing danger & desire to bust a gut. He has had these flaws for a long time and I am not seeing improvements in these areas. 

There always seems to be a good excuse for a bad performance - last nights is that he had an early booking. Some are saying maybe he’s carrying a knock etc. Whenever there is a strength of opinion that he had a poor game, people always have an excuse. Other players tend not to get that favour. 

I agree that all of our players have their flaws, some more noticeable than others. But most people won’t hear that said about Joe - so I see it as important to set the record straight and try to point out the things I see as errors. Hopefully he can learn from them, rather than dismiss critical opinion. 

I didn’t post at the time but the Derby match the other week. Derby had 6 decent chances in the 1st half. 4 of them, Joe was the last City player to touch the ball prior to their chance. He’s incredibly error prone (particularly at left back), and I think he’s been quite fortunate that more of his errors haven’t been punished with goals. Seems as if Magnússon, Wright, Pack and others receive bad press for mistakes that lead to goals, but it seems to me that they are unfortunate that more often than not their mistakes have been punished, whereas Joe makes more errors than those but has managed to get away with them. 

I don’t have the time, but I could probably write an essay after each game of areas where Joe made a mistake. I’m amazed that our coaching staff don’t seem to work on these aspects of his game (or maybe they do but he doesn’t put in into practice). 

[Robbored]

8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

And here's me thinking that you admired the fact that LJ was honest, different and a breath of fresh air.

As for the 2nd part there is also a danger of undermining the players, when not admitting your own part in a poor all round performance and boy he played his part last night.

I'm certainly impressed with LJ on more than one level. He's a thinking mans manager and a student of the game. He works hard on improving his knowledge. He regularly visits other clubs, including PL clubs, Man City and Spurs being just two and seeks advice/ideas from the likes of Pep and Pottichino.

He's tactically aware, generally makes the right substitutions and interviews really well but not even LJ will admit that he got it wrong.

[lager loud]

Something that's concerned me this season is whether our high energy game would catch up with us; and I wonder if that's what's happening at the moment, leading to some lacklustre performances like last night. Not a lack of desire, I suspect, just a lack of the required energy.

Last season we often managed the high press successfully for up to an hour, then ran out of steam. It's been noticeable this season that we've maintained our tempo for the entirety of many games. But over a few months that can catch up with you, and I suspect Jamie Paterson's recent performances, for instance, are the result of him basically being exhausted. 

I just hope the players can get enough recovery time to get back to the higher energy performances of the first half of the season.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, lager loud said:

Something that's concerned me this season is whether our high energy game would catch up with us; and I wonder if that's what's happening at the moment, leading to some lacklustre performances like last night. Not a lack of desire, I suspect, just a lack of the required energy.

Last season we often managed the high press successfully for up to an hour, then ran out of steam. It's been noticeable this season that we've maintained our tempo for the entirety of many games. But over a few months that can catch up with you, and I suspect Jamie Paterson's recent performances, for instance, are the result of him basically being exhausted. 

I just hope the players can get enough recovery time to get back to the higher energy performances of the first half of the season.

I wonder with Pato, and in particular his slight build, that when he’s not 100% he suffers more than most, e.g. got nothing in his tank to fall-back on.  Perhaps that has contributed to his inconsistency in previous seasons.  Wolves gave just been for some warm weather training, seems to be a positive for them.

[Trueredsupporter]

5 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You are increasing coming across as you want that to be the case in your regular criticism of this player.

Ameobi ran over 50 yards with the ball v a defence that was not outnumbered. No player sought to control the pace in front of him. Youth teams now better,

Think it was more seventy yards. Joes the scapegoat!! what should have happened?

[Cowshed]

26 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

Think it was more seventy yards. Joes the scapegoat!! what should have happened?

Joe Bryan should be on his toes.

Once Ameobi broke the first line (Bryan) the team has a question to ask.

Am I/are we outnumbered? The answer was no so the ball should be pressed and players react to that trigger by narrowing down creating a compact defence.

There is no danger of conceding in that position unless Ameobi had the pace of Bale.

Instead individuals backed off  while others sought to mark/block passing lanes while ignoring the important round thing heading Northwards towards goal, and then into it.

Pick a number of how many poor decisions were made. I would go for six v one player with the ball.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

Aahh, Casual, Toothless & Sloppy - the firm of solicitors I wish I’d never used....

[Lanterne Rouge]

1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Aahh, Casual, Toothless & Sloppy - the firm of solicitors I wish I’d never used....

From Horfield aren`t they?

[Leveller]

22 hours ago, stephenkibby. said:

As much as I have or never will slag of any of our players, sorry no we didn't play Quite well. Anyway what dose playing quite well mean?

We didn't play well and got what we deserved.

We had the bulk of the possession and even the Sky commentators said we were the better side overall.

It wasn’t a good performance as we were unimaginative and created very few chances. However we didn’t allow Bolton to create many either.

It was relatively poor in the context of the season but it was far from our worst performance of the season. Millwall at Home was much worse for one. 

In fact it was a fairly typical performance in many ways. We often have lots of possession without a hatful of chances. Our reputation this season has been enhanced by some high profile games, but we are not as good as a lot of people have started to believe.

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎02‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 22:17, Alex_BCFC said:

Bryan was wrong side and off if he tackled. Korey should have stepped in. 

He could have made a lot more effort to get back. But agreed others should have got across.

 

 

 

[Touch_my_butter]

Sound like the names of 3 ten-pound-a-pop prostitutes 

[BigTone]

7 minutes ago, Touch_my_butter said:

Sound like the names of 3 ten-pound-a-pop prostitutes 

Ahhh yes, the Old Market trio. Where the customer always comes first.

[Major Isewater]

18 hours ago, lager loud said:

Something that's concerned me this season is whether our high energy game would catch up with us; and I wonder if that's what's happening at the moment, leading to some lacklustre performances like last night. Not a lack of desire, I suspect, just a lack of the required energy.

Last season we often managed the high press successfully for up to an hour, then ran out of steam. It's been noticeable this season that we've maintained our tempo for the entirety of many games. But over a few months that can catch up with you, and I suspect Jamie Paterson's recent performances, for instance, are the result of him basically being exhausted. 

I just hope the players can get enough recovery time to get back to the higher energy performances of the first half of the season.

The players are closely monitored and if there was a drop in performance levels that would be addressed. 

I believe it's mentally where the tiredness is dangerous but even then LJ talks about regular one on one conversations with the squad to see where their heads are at.

What I have noticed is that other teams have copied our high energy pressing game and we no longer take them by storm with the intensity of our game.

It's as if we showed them that this is how to play. The old guard didn't adjust quick enough and preseason favourites like Boro , Sheffield Wednesday etc got left behind .

Bolton stifled our attack yesterday and we couldn't beat them simply on energy and movement alone