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How do we get back on track


barneyrubble

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Friday was a bad performance from what looked like a team who had lost their way.Only a few weeks ago we were giving Man City two tough games.I think the players are suffering a comedown from these big games.Bolton away on a Friday night at 8pm is not something to get too excited about, although this is the reality of championship football.Going away for a break maybe just what is needed to enable the team to put the cup behind them and start a fresh. Think we need to remember what we have achieved and take this into the next few games .It's not over yet.

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I think we’ve lacked a bit of patience. 

It took Man City right into injury time both games to grind out a win against us. They had to show so much patience to keep plugging away at us, while we ourselves made it really hard for them and played well ourselves. Wolves we had the fortune of them going a man down and we were well in control, grabbed a goal but were then sloppy in not just seeing out the game. Norwich we were playing well and then changed things up and just lost out, Bolton we were starting to exert some pressure and then changed things up in the expectation it would create the breakthrough. 

Obviously the changes could have worked and there is always that hindsight aspect but most teams acknowledge that we are a good side this season and they will only be too happy to frustrate us as much as possible. 

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9 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

Perhaps the question should be, how did we get off track?  Same thing happened last year, but that was worse so far, and the same thing happened to LJ at Barnsley. 

If you can work out what went wrong then you can begin to put it right.

Suggestions?

 

It went wrong last season because LJ was looking to find those players he could trust. Changing the line up most games was part of the difficulty 

That isn’t the case this season

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Friday night was reasonably consistent with what has been happening all season.  We struggle to break down teams who defend in depth against us.  I hoped that Bolton would be more adventurous on Friday and leave space for us but that didn't happen and, as usual, we don't seem to get behind a packed defence.  It was one of those games in which, to quote the cliche, the first goal was allimportant, and had it gone to us I think we'd have seen out the game comfortably. 

A couple of points though - how many goals have we scored from distance this season, and how many direct from free kicks?  I suspect the answere are respectively 'not enough' and 'almost none'.  We seem to have to work very hard to score goals at the moment...

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People seem to have difficulty comprehending the idea that form fluctuates for almost all teams over a season. Unless you’re an exceptional side like Wolves or Man City, you should expect to have variable form. All the teams around us have had peaks and troughs and we can realistically catch anyone bar Wolves.

LJ is streaky manager which we can actually take some reassurance from. His past record indicates that we should expect a streak of very good form before the end of the season. Hopefully when it matters, you don’t want to peak too early.

There’s no quick fix - sometimes poor form and losing games can be circumstantial (injuries, suspensions, fixture pileup) which we suffered from.

Other factors can be tactical decisions - ie the debates about Smith at right back. 

Other factors can be more deep rooted such as I believe the mentality and issues with Tomlin last season. Luckily that doesn’t appear to be a problem this year.

Friday was tough but we, and all the teams around us, will experience more twists and turns before the end of the season.

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I think there are two main factors:

1) Our success earlier in the season was in playing well as a unit. One too many aspects of that unit are currently missing and the number of injuries and absences has messed with our rhythm.

2) As pointed out above, it has been a recurrent theme this season that we play much better against teams that push forward and leave space at the back. Bolton away is a game that really does not play into our hands and a reality is that the better we do, the more wary teams will be and the more we face sides playing like that. We need to work out how to play against teams that are happy to cede us possession and defend in numbers. However that has been true all season.

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Impatience is the key! I think the players get frustrated with the game at 0-0 for a long time or a side draws level and we push players forward and get caught on the counter attack often and sometime leads to the opposition scoring. LJ does try to enforce his game plan against most sides we play but maybe we need to be the side soaking up the pressure and break quick in the counter especially away from home. Would of been interesting to see what Bolton would of done if we were the side sitting deep in the first half, confidence to them to push forward and leaving gaps for our quality to run into and overlap also. Only the coaching staff and players know what’s going on. 

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1 minute ago, Full nelson said:

Impatience is the key! I think the players get frustrated with the game at 0-0 for a long time or a side draws level and we push players forward and get caught on the counter attack often and sometime leads to the opposition scoring. LJ does try to enforce his game plan against most sides we play but maybe we need to be the side soaking up the pressure and break quick in the counter especially away from home. Would of been interesting to see what Bolton would of done if we were the side sitting deep in the first half, confidence to them to push forward and leaving gaps for our quality to run into and overlap also. Only the coaching staff and players know what’s going on. 

We have the players to put teams under sustained pressure, and it might take someone like Paterson 85 minutes to find an opening against the full back after he's gone through his whole repertoire.

Really think frustration has a lot to do with it, although the Bolton goal was a corner and frustration isn't an excuse for what was an almost team-wide off day.

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People seem to have difficulty comprehending the idea that form fluctuates for almost all teams over a season. Unless you’re an exceptional side like Wolves or Man City, you should expect to have variable form. All the teams around us have had peaks and troughs and we can realistically catch anyone bar Wolves.

LJ is streaky manager which we can actually take some reassurance from. His past record indicates that we should expect a streak of very good form before the end of the season. Hopefully when it matters, you don’t want to peak too early.

There’s no quick fix - sometimes poor form and losing games can be circumstantial (injuries, suspensions, fixture pileup) which we suffered from.

Other factors can be tactical decisions - ie the debates about Smith at right back. 

Other factors can be more deep rooted such as I believe the mentality and issues with Tomlin last season. Luckily that doesn’t appear to be a problem this year.

Friday was tough but we, and all the teams around us, will experience more twists and turns before the end of the season.

I took a look at the Championship form table before the game on Friday, and for the last 5 games (before this weekend) only Fulham and Villa had not lost at least one game.  Yeh results didn’t go our way at all this weekend, but who knows next, way to many points left to play for, and for others to drop

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Or maybe having a small squad with few real options is finally catching up with us, especially with a cup run thrown in. The regular Sky appearances mean we get getting analysed a lot closer. I'm surprised that anyone is surprised by this, and other than shuffling the same players around a bit, what options do we have?

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I think Simon L is right about momentum.  We looked stale on Friday, and I do think that a loan right back would have added the impetus we needed.  I'm very surprised that we didn't secure one.

Also, Lee has been pretty much spot on with his subs this season, but with hindsight he got it wrong on Friday - not in going to three at the back in my view, but in taking Marlon Pack off.

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2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

People seem to have difficulty comprehending the idea that form fluctuates for almost all teams over a season. Unless you’re an exceptional side like Wolves or Man City, you should expect to have variable form. All the teams around us have had peaks and troughs and we can realistically catch anyone bar Wolves.

LJ is streaky manager which we can actually take some reassurance from. His past record indicates that we should expect a streak of very good form before the end of the season. Hopefully when it matters, you don’t want to peak too early.

There’s no quick fix - sometimes poor form and losing games can be circumstantial (injuries, suspensions, fixture pileup) which we suffered from.

Other factors can be tactical decisions - ie the debates about Smith at right back. 

Other factors can be more deep rooted such as I believe the mentality and issues with Tomlin last season. Luckily that doesn’t appear to be a problem this year.

Friday was tough but we, and all the teams around us, will experience more twists and turns before the end of the season.

Well said. Villa had poor form and now it’s great. Same for Derby, Fulham etc. 

We had great form and now it’s poor. Reality is still that only four sides have achieved more this season and of those most is very marginal. 

Its a 46 game season and a small spell of poor form is no surprise when you consider that by early December we’d played more football - with an already stretched squad due to injuries - than any other side in the league. 

Its a fantastic achievement that we are where we are and I really hope that expectations aren’t growing disproportionately. 

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5 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Well said. Villa had poor form and now it’s great. Same for Derby, Fulham etc. 

We had great form and now it’s poor. Reality is still that only four sides have achieved more this season and of those most is very marginal. 

Its a 46 game season and a small spell of poor form is no surprise when you consider that by early December we’d played more football - with an already stretched squad due to injuries - than any other side in the league. 

Its a fantastic achievement that we are where we are and I really hope that expectations aren’t growing disproportionately. 

I think the reaction to Friday just surprised me a bit. I see myself as pretty laid back about our form and appreciate not everyone will be as relaxed, but the reaction to Friday’s result as some sort of catastrophe felt OTT.

Perhaps it’s because we were all able to watch live and it was a very frustrating spectacle. I just couldn’t understand why people were so furious - we’re a lower league club, playing badly is nothing new to our fans. Unfortunately it just happens sometimes.

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3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think the reaction to Friday just surprised me a bit. I see myself as pretty laid back about our form and appreciate not everyone will be as relaxed, but the reaction to Friday’s result as some sort of catastrophe felt OTT.

Perhaps it’s because we were all able to watch live and it was a very frustrating spectacle. I just couldn’t understand why people were so furious - we’re a lower league club, playing badly is nothing new to our fans. Unfortunately it just happens sometimes.

That was the biggest disappointment for me, knives straight out and the match day thread littered with names that were nowhere to be seen when the results were good. 

It feels like people expect us to do absolutely everything right and get a good result in every single game - that’s just not how life works at this level. 

OTT is correct. Sat in the playoffs after two thirds of the season is an absolutely superb achievement and people would do well to remember that and keep some sense of perspective. 

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3 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

That was the biggest disappointment for me, knives straight out and the match day thread littered with names that were nowhere to be seen when the results were good. 

It feels like people expect us to do absolutely everything right and get a good result in every single game - that’s just not how life works at this level. 

OTT is correct. Sat in the playoffs after two thirds of the season is an absolutely superb achievement and people would do well to remember that and keep some sense of perspective. 

Exactly - there will be more surprises before the end of the season. It’s as if some think all the teams around us will win every game until the end of the season - they won’t. It’s an inconsistent division and incredibly competitive.

It was also disappointing (but not surprising) to see the return of a few posters appearing to revel in it. I think some must be slight masochists as they appear to enjoy defeat more than victory.

QPR showed me that we’re not on some downward spiral, Bolton was a blip against our apparent kryptonite - teams that sit behind the ball and defend resolutely. Maybe LJ could ring his new mate Pep for some advice on countering that!

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9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Exactly - there will be more surprises before the end of the season. It’s as if some think all the teams around us will win every game until the end of the season - they won’t. It’s an inconsistent division and incredibly competitive.

It was also disappointing (but not surprising) to see the return of a few posters appearing to revel in it. I think some must be slight masochists as they appear to enjoy defeat more than victory.

QPR showed me that we’re not on some downward spiral, Bolton was a blip against our apparent kryptonite - teams that sit behind the ball and defend resolutely. Maybe LJ could ring his new mate Pep for some advice on countering that!

 Very sensible post PF.

Shame more posters don't share the same wider view as some of us but then this is otib....

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1). Bring somebody in who could take a free kick to coach our free kick takers, somebody who from in and around the box looks as though he might actually hit the target for a change.

2). Stop (and this is direct from LJ) the search for the perfect goal and uncomplicate passing in and around the opponents penalty area.

3). Stop the occasional hospital passes and weak defending across our back line, sometimes safety first (even Man City, revert to that when needed).

4). Stop playing our best midfielder at right back.

5). Vastly improve our delivery from the flanks and perhaps instructing our 'wide men'  to not always cut inside into severe traffic jams but take full backs on and cross more from wide positions.

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8 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

1). Bring somebody in who could take a free kick to coach our free kick takers, somebody who from in and around the box looks as though he might actually hit the target for a change.

2). Stop (and this is direct from LJ) the search for the perfect goal and uncomplicate passing in and around the opponents penalty area.

3). Stop the occasional hospital passes and weak defending across our back line, sometimes safety first (even Man City, revert to that when needed).

4). Stop playing our best midfielder at right back.

5). Vastly improve our delivery from the flanks and perhaps instructing our 'wide men'  to not always cut inside into severe traffic jams but take full backs on and cross more from wide positions.

Point 4 - I think most of us were surprised and I was certainly disappointed to see Smith at RB when LJ had Hodur as the natural CB to cover for Baker. 

Im still a little in shock tbh and really hope he doesn't do the same against Sunderland 

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I don’t think we’ve gone off track, personally.

Start of the season I said I’d be happy with a 10th-12th place finish without having been involved in the stress of a relegation scrap, so for me, we are already doing better than I’d hoped (the cups run being a significant bonus).

Of course; now we are in the position we are, we should be kicking on in order to maximise the possibilities such an excellent run give us (which has also basically made us safe from the drop by Feb; a luxury we don’t often have btw).

I personally think that Friday was our cup hangover, just one game delayed; missing an influential defender and away to a team who sold their main player a few days prior, so were a somewhat unknown quantity.

Against QPR the sending off actually galvanised us, and the players responded by upping their game, so here’s hoping a disappointing loss will do the same.

We literally couldn’t have a better opponent to try and bounce back against in the shape of Sunderland so hopefully we can turn the corner then.

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2 minutes ago, samo II said:

I don’t think we’ve gone off track, personally.

Start of the season I said I’d be happy with a 10th-12th place finish without having been involved in the stress of a relegation scrap, so for me, we are already doing better than I’d hoped (the cups run being a significant bonus).

In August I predicted an optimistic 8th however expectations change. We got through January after playing everyone once in the playoff places and so for me anything outside of playoffs would now be a disappointment. 

I’m sure the team and management would also be disappointed to miss out on the playoffs.

 

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8 hours ago, Barney red said:

Friday was a bad performance from what looked like a team who had lost their way.Only a few weeks ago we were giving Man City two tough games.I think the players are suffering a comedown from these big games.Bolton away on a Friday night at 8pm is not something to get too excited about, although this is the reality of championship football.Going away for a break maybe just what is needed to enable the team to put the cup behind them and start a fresh. Think we need to remember what we have achieved and take this into the next few games .It's not over yet.

Start scoring again....simples.

Oh,and for LJ to "get back to basics"-cant help but feel "tinkerman" may be rearing 'ees ugly head again..

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10 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Start scoring again....simples.

Oh,and for LJ to "get back to basics"-cant help but feel "tinkerman" may be rearing 'ees ugly head again..

How do you propose that LJ replaces suspended and/or injured players and accommodates new players, without “tinkering”..?

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17 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

Start scoring again....simples.

Oh,and for LJ to "get back to basics"-cant help but feel "tinkerman" may be rearing 'ees ugly head again..

How exactly? He had to rearrange things to cope with Baker’s suspension, and he has brought Diédhiou back after his injury. Those are the only significant changes he made to the starting lineup.

Arguably he should be doing more - eg reacting to Paterson’s loss of form.

Overall I tend to agree with the “overreaction” comments. In fact we had a bit of bad luck, in contrast to quite a lot of good luck earlier in the season (eg  barely deserved wins at Hull and Sheffield Utd). Swings and roundabouts. It will improve again.

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