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Time for some straight talk...!


Michael McIndoe

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I said a few weeks ago I didn't feel that the current squad would finish higher than 8th and I still stand by that. With 1 win in the last 7 league games and some of BC's best performers this season already losing a bit of form, the biggest question I ask is have the players got the fitness levels and energy to play the high pressing, counter at speed game for 50 matches in a season? I don't think certain football fans understand how much energy it takes to do this for 10 months. On average it requires a player to run (including training) 50-75 kilometres every week. Managers tend not to play this type of style because they have always struggled to find players fit enough to consistently do it for a whole season. This is why Man City, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and most of Pep's teams have been so successful, he not only has the best players but they are also coincidently the fittest.

Personally I think Lee has got it spot on in terms of his approach, and yes he'll make mistakes because he is, in football terms still an inexperienced manager. However I think if BC are to go up and stay in the PL, this is the style that must be embedded into all BC players both current and future. The PL pay so much money to top players, not just for their footballing abilities but because they are the fittest athletes out there at what they do. Lee has definitely identified this, as well as certain patterns of play he learned from his dad. I think eventually this style will equal promotion.

Bear what I've said in mind when the players are not at their best, or the team doesn't win as many matches as you think they should. 

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11 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

I said a few weeks ago I didn't feel that the current squad would finish higher than 8th and I still stand by that. With 1 win in the last 7 league games and some of BC's best performers this season already losing a bit of form, the biggest question I ask is have the players got the fitness levels and energy to play the high pressing, counter at speed game for 50 matches in a season? I don't think certain football fans understand how much energy it takes to do this for 10 months. On average it requires a player to run (including training) 50-75 kilometres every week. Managers tend not to play this type of style because they have always struggled to find players fit enough to consistently do it for a whole season. This is why Man City, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and most of Pep's teams have been so successful, he not only has the best players but they are also coincidently the fittest.

Personally I think Lee has got it spot on in terms of his approach, and yes he'll make mistakes because he is, in football terms still an inexperienced manager. However I think if BC are to go up and stay in the PL, this is the style that must be embedded into all BC players both current and future. The PL pay so much money to top players, not just for their footballing abilities but because they are the fittest athletes out there at what they do. Lee has definitely identified this, as well as certain patterns of play he learned from his dad. I think eventually this style will equal promotion.

Bear what I've said in mind when the players are not at their best, or the team doesn't win as many matches as you think they should. 

This’ll be a major part of the reason for our drop in form in December / January but that was also down to us being so decimated by injuries & because we were unable to rest / rotate players but the majority of us are aware of this.

The thing LJ is seemingly trying to do now is build a squad not just a first eleven & this will allow us to rest & rotate players when required but this takes time to implement not just a view to short term ambitions & hopefully LJ will be here long enough to implement everything he requires to fulfill his plans. (Well I hope so anyway).

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I think all too often some fans have an attitute of “we are 4th, they are 18th, we should beat them”. We beat Man Utd, we should beat most teams in this league.

It is very very easy to forget these guys are not machines. They make mistakes. They have good games, they have bad games. There are so many variables going on ‘behind the scenes’ that we don’t know about. Fitness, general conditioning, personal issues, opposition(!) etc etc. Too often we think if a player isn’t at their best, they’re clearly not trying hard enough.

Having said that - although I can see LJ wants to have a smaller squad and respect the players that got us this far, I’m of the opinion you’re right here, and we probably should have strengthened a little more in January than we did, for the reasons you said above. Not necessary the Jermone’s, Grabben’s or Madine’s but more depth. But that is done now and too late, so we have what we have.

We are going about things the right way. We have a system that will bring success. Maybe not this year, but in the years to come. 

I firmly believe that LJ and the board wouldn’t see another year or two in the Championship a failure in anyway.

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It always was going to be difficult maintaining those energy levels, especially with the cup games. Add to this the publicity, meaning our style of play has been well analysed, and a few injuries and standards always likely to slip. You only need to cast an eye across the names on the bench and it's hardly awe-inspiring, as we just don't have the depth to maintain such high standards. Even the three signings in January were more with an eye to the future, Kent looks OK, but not good tracking back, and I will refrain from commenting on Lois!

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9 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I think all too often some fans have an attitute of “we are 4th, they are 18th, we should beat them”. We beat Man Utd, we should beat most teams in this league.

It is very very easy to forget these guys are not machines. They make mistakes. They have good games, they have bad games. There are so many variables going on ‘behind the scenes’ that we don’t know about. Fitness, general conditioning, personal issues, opposition(!) etc etc. Too often we think if a player isn’t at their best, they’re clearly not trying hard enough.

I can see LJ wants to have a smaller squad and respect the players that got us this far, but I’m of the opinion you’re right here, and we should have strengthened a little more in January than we did, for the reasons you said above. Not necessary the Jermone’s, Grabben’s or Madine’s but more depth.

We are going about things the right way. We have a system that will bring success. Maybe not this year, but in the years to come. 

I firmly believe that LJ and the board wouldn’t see another year or two in the Championship a failure in anyway.

You make a very valid point @Alessandro about the January transfer window. I would love to know on whose recommendation it was to choose a player from France who is completely unknown in the English game over all the other possible striking options out there! Bringing players to a football club is a fine art. This is why most chief scouts tend to be older, because the wise owls know real quality when they see it. 

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It's too easy to underestimate what a loss Baker is.

Lee made mistakes yesterday, he admitted that immediately. Yesterday was also just one of those one offs - a naiveity in approach and on field the players and management will not show again, coupled with some terrible luck.

Our recent run, including the next 3, is/was incredibly tough. Probably near enough as bad as you could pick. In that time we have not had a full strength side. We will soon.

Bolton for instance are much better than their position suggests - one of our biggest rivals Fulham, they only got a point at home, puts our 0 away into perspective. 

I am relaxed. Yesterday we missed an opportunity to cement rather than lost significant ground. It's not one to dwell on, but one we will learn a lot from. 

I am not even particularly optimistic of our points return for the next 3, but I am from there out. I still expect play offs. 

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9 minutes ago, Chappers said:

It always was going to be difficult maintaining those energy levels, especially with the cup games. Add to this the publicity, meaning our style of play has been well analysed, and a few injuries and standards always likely to slip. You only need to cast an eye across the names on the bench and it's hardly awe-inspiring, as we just don't have the depth to maintain such high standards. Even the three signings in January were more with an eye to the future, Kent looks OK, but not good tracking back, and I will refrain from commenting on Lois!

Therein lies part of the reason why we lost our momentum.

The Now is far more important/relevant than the future.

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10 minutes ago, Chappers said:

It always was going to be difficult maintaining those energy levels, especially with the cup games. Add to this the publicity, meaning our style of play has been well analysed, and a few injuries and standards always likely to slip. You only need to cast an eye across the names on the bench and it's hardly awe-inspiring, as we just don't have the depth to maintain such high standards. Even the three signings in January were more with an eye to the future, Kent looks OK, but not good tracking back, and I will refrain from commenting on Lois!

I have to say @ChappersI am extremely surprised that given the team's position in January, the board/Lee didn't bring in some real quality. I can only think the reasons behind this were that they do not feel the club is ready to take that jump into the PL yet. 

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15 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

 

We are going about things the right way. We have a system that will bring success. Maybe not this year, but in the years to come. 

I firmly believe that LJ and the board wouldn’t see another year or two in the Championship a failure in anyway.

I agree. Another year or even two competing at the right end of the championship wouldn`t be the end of the world. Part of me would rather see us going toe to toe with the likes of Derby and Boro than getting dicked by Arsenal every week.

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Michael McIndoe, I agree with everything you have said. I would add that there is a greater mental energy and stamina required for the high pressing game. Players need to really maintain concentration on what is required individually by each one of them at all times and not just when they are involved. With regards to your comment of fitness, when tiredness creeps in mental strength and concentration creep out.

Keep posting here Michael, your comments are always appreciated, I'm sure by almost all on OTIB.

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2 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

You make a very valid point @Alessandro about the January transfer window. I would love to know on whose recommendation it was to choose a player from France who is completely unknown in the English game over all the other possible striking options out there! Bringing players to a football club is a fine art. This is why most chief scouts tend to be older, because the wise owls know real quality when they see it. 

Well we know the policy is to buy to 'add value' in it's simplest terms. Where the player comes from doesn't matter.

We've had success from France with Kodjia and now Famara. Lois Diony has trodden a similar path to them.

Too soon to say if he will work out, he has divided opinion to say the least, but 2 out 3 so far isn't too bad on French forwards.

Villa, Derby and Cardiff have all 'splashed out' on more high profile forwards, for at least one of those three teams the gamble won't pay off with promotion this year. What City are trying to do is more sustainable and simply put, we can't afford the wages, £20, 30k per week that the likes of Grabban and Jerome are on. I suspect the rumours were true and we were in for Hugill and willing to pay big, but £10m from a promotion rival was a worse deal than £8-10m from a premier league club.

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4 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

 I would love to know on whose recommendation it was to choose a player from France who is completely unknown in the English game over all the other possible striking options out there!

Based on the success of Kodjia and Fammy, you can see why they've gone back to France. Club have commented before about being able to get better value in Europe, as Premier league money has made players in England too expensive even in lower leagues.

Isn't Diony a limit gamble, being on loan with an option to buy? Just hope he finds some confidence!

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4 minutes ago, 29AR said:

It's too easy to underestimate what a loss Baker is.

Lee made mistakes yesterday, he admitted that immediately. Yesterday was also just one of those one offs - a naiveity in approach and on field the players and management will not show again, coupled with some terrible luck.

Our recent run, including the next 3, is/was incredibly tough. Probably near enough as bad as you could pick. In that time we have not had a full strength side. We will soon.

Bolton for instance are much better than their position suggests - one of our biggest rivals Fulham, they only got a point at home, puts our 0 away into perspective. 

I am relaxed. Yesterday we missed an opportunity to cement rather than lost significant ground. It's not one to dwell on, but one we will learn a lot from. 

I am not even particularly optimistic of our points return for the next 3, but I am from there out. I still expect play offs. 

Love your optimism @29AR! I hope you're right and the boys do make the playoffs but given the chasing pack creeping up behind you I think you'll do well to hold top onto a top 6 position. 

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2 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

I have to say @ChappersI am extremely surprised that given the team's position in January, the board/Lee didn't bring in some real quality. I can only think the reasons behind this were that they do not feel the club is ready to take that jump into the PL yet. 

I think it is more complicated than that. I think it's a question of how much would all but guarantee promotion. If you are going to go for it, there can be no holding back, the cost of failure and being hamstrung the year after is too much. 

Looking back I would agree the table was too tight at that point to make going for it a reasonable gamble. With all the other teams, their quality and depth of squad - look at Derby's strikers, villa's squad, Fulham looking like getting a warchest... I think we would have had to spend too much to assure promotion. 

The club was ready, the league was not favourable to support an assault. 

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1 minute ago, 29AR said:

I think it is more complicated than that. I think it's a question of how much would all but guarantee promotion. If you are going to go for it, there can be no holding back, the cost of failure and being hamstrung the year after is too much. 

Looking back I would agree the table was too tight at that point to make going for it a reasonable gamble. With all the other teams, their quality and depth of squad - look at Derby's strikers, villa's squad, Fulham looking like getting a warchest... I think we would have had to spend too much to assure promotion. 

The club was ready, the league was not favourable to support an assault. 

Given SL was embarrassed by how much he spent last time we nearly went up to the Prem, he won't do that again.

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2 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

Love your optimism @29AR! I hope you're right and the boys do make the playoffs but given the chasing pack creeping up behind you I think you'll do well to hold top onto a top 6 position. 

I do think that we will drop out of the top 6 soon, but I also think we will then go on a run and crucially before they could pull away. It might even be a blessing dropping out and giving the boys a fresh impetus 

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It is not just about what we do . I have noticed more and more teams playing the high energy pressing game that has served us so well up until now .

They have seen our success and copied it .

We being beaten at our own game.

The favourites for promotion at the start of the season have fallen behind as they've not adjusted to the new style .

 

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8 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

Love your optimism @29AR! I hope you're right and the boys do make the playoffs but given the chasing pack creeping up behind you I think you'll do well to hold top onto a top 6 position

I'm not so sure about this and one of the reasons despite our slump we are still in the top 6.

Preston, Sheff Utd and Brentford have only won 2 of their last 6, Boro 3 - so no-one is flying up behind us.

But given the next 6 games for Fulham (Villa, City, Wolves, Derby, Sheff Utd, Preston) things could change a lot in the top 8 over the next month or so.

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10 minutes ago, jayjay said:

Michael McIndoe, I agree with everything you have said. I would add that there is a greater mental energy and stamina required for the high pressing game. Players need to really maintain concentration on what is required individually by each one of them at all times and not just when they are involved. With regards to your comment of fitness, when tiredness creeps in mental strength and concentration creep out.

Keep posting here Michael, your comments are always appreciated, I'm sure by almost all on OTIB.

Thanks @jayjay I love talking to proper football fans! 

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11 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

I have to say @ChappersI am extremely surprised that given the team's position in January, the board/Lee didn't bring in some real quality. I can only think the reasons behind this were that they do not feel the club is ready to take that jump into the PL yet. 

I think you are spot-on MM - if SL/the Board/LJ thought that we were, we would have invested in more Championship experienced players in January in my view.

SL is probably of the view that when we go up, he wants us to be able to sustain without investing the £200m in players and significant contracts as this is what has caused the likes of QPR and Sunderland to now start struggling on and off the pitch

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5 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

I agree with this @Bazooka Joe. I was slightly disappointed that lessons weren't learned from 10 years ago. 

Michael, I've said much the same in another thread.

I hate people saying "lessons have been learnt" especially when they go and repeat the same mistake.

Ambition is demonstrated by what you do, not what you say.

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12 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Well we know the policy is to buy to 'add value' in it's simplest terms. Where the player comes from doesn't matter.

We've had success from France with Kodjia and now Famara. Lois Diony has trodden a similar path to them.

Too soon to say if he will work out, he has divided opinion to say the least, but 2 out 3 so far isn't too bad on French forwards.

Villa, Derby and Cardiff have all 'splashed out' on more high profile forwards, for at least one of those three teams the gamble won't pay off with promotion this year. What City are trying to do is more sustainable and simply put, we can't afford the wages, £20, 30k per week that the likes of Grabban and Jerome are on. I suspect the rumours were true and we were in for Hugill and willing to pay big, but £10m from a promotion rival was a worse deal than £8-10m from a premier league club.

I think you're right to an extent regarding your French forwards, but I don't think you needed to take a gamble on a player who has never played in England before at a time when promotion is closer than it has been for the last 10 years! That's the time to bring in proven goal scorers.  

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14 minutes ago, Cider_boy said:

Based on the success of Kodjia and Fammy, you can see why they've gone back to France. Club have commented before about being able to get better value in Europe, as Premier league money has made players in England too expensive even in lower leagues.

Isn't Diony a limit gamble, being on loan with an option to buy? Just hope he finds some confidence!

I agree it isn't a big gamble on the player himself. But it's more a gamble of when are BC going to be in that same position in a Jan transfer window in the forthcoming seasons? That therein lies the gamble. 

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We have struggled recently because we have played with two out & out wingers.

Kent and Paterson want to operate in the same area's of space and aren't able to defend 1v1.

We need Brownhill back in the inside right position. He's also better at linking up with our top scorer, and arguably best player Bob.

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23 minutes ago, Michael McIndoe said:

You make a very valid point @Alessandro about the January transfer window. I would love to know on whose recommendation it was to choose a player from France who is completely unknown in the English game over all the other possible striking options out there! Bringing players to a football club is a fine art. This is why most chief scouts tend to be older, because the wise owls know real quality when they see it. 

If reports are to be believed, we had been interested in Diony for 2 years prior to getting him in January, I would hope that having been interested in a player for that long, we would of done all the necessary scouting etc to know what we were getting rather than him just being some random player who we decided to bring in.

 

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18 minutes ago, 29AR said:

I think it is more complicated than that. I think it's a question of how much would all but guarantee promotion. If you are going to go for it, there can be no holding back, the cost of failure and being hamstrung the year after is too much. 

Looking back I would agree the table was too tight at that point to make going for it a reasonable gamble. With all the other teams, their quality and depth of squad - look at Derby's strikers, villa's squad, Fulham looking like getting a warchest... I think we would have had to spend too much to assure promotion. 

The club was ready, the league was not favourable to support an assault. 

The question I would ask you @29AR when will the league be ready for an assault more so than when it was back in Jan? 

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