BTRFTG Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 "On average it requires a player to run (including training) 50-75 kilometres every week...." Memory playing tricks again Michael? Average player covers around 11km per match, with at worst two fixtures per week. Playing twice a week they'd likely have one full day's training (of which continuous physical exertion is less than 60 minutes) and two light training/recovery sessions. Only time they'd get near 50km per week would be putting the shifts in during a couple of weeks pre season. One or two present players may edge nearer the 14 km mark per match and it's easy to spot who they are. Many of our perennial bench-warming sicknotes would struggle to top 14km in season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Tipps69 said: Okay, I know it’s that financial rip-off day coming up this week (and no I don’t mean pancake day) but d’you two need to get a room sorted out? Sometimes you can’t read the signals, so use OTIB to make sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Sometimes you can’t read the signals, so use OTIB to make sure ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 59 minutes ago, spudski said: You've only got to look at the majority of players bought in over the past three windows, to see that they were bought in with the purpose to play the way we play...the high pressing game. Making Reid a 'Forward', wasn't so much for his scoring ability, but more for his energy and ability to keep running and close down from the front line. It was so noticeable yesterday in the second half, how much we missed that. His replacement Diony didn't do it. This allowed Sunderland to build through the lines. When Reid presses, it triggers all the others. We work as a team, hounding and intercepting. Especially after the opposition have just received the ball. Diony didn't do it, Famara did it less, with less urgency and this started to reflect throughout the rest of the team. Reid is the energy...the button that energises everyone else. He runs...everyone else see's what they need to do. It's infectious. When you get a forward labouring when we don't have the ball, it has a knock on effect....especially when it's a high pressing game that we play. It was the same last season when we had Tomlin playing...not so bad going forward, but we struggled when not in possession. The same happened yesterday. I agree about the high pressing game being energy sapping over a season...The injuries to key players, sapping Cup run, bookings and sending off's have all had a negative effect. Baker, Odowda, Fielding, Pisano, Duric, Famara, Taylor, Hegeler...all side lined at some point or still....it's taken it's toll. These would have all been used and rotated more. Leko was a disappointment. Eliasson and Gus...still not in favour. Woodrow indifferent. We've done well to keep in the top 6 all this time considering tbh. Having watched most games this season, Reid is the key player for us doing well. Not just in his energy, but the positive effect he has on everyone else. I totally agree with you regarding Reid..It makes you wonder or question why Diony didn't try and continue that yesterday.. its certainly not a question of ability as lets be honest Reid does a lot of donkey work that any player with the correct fitness levels should and can replicate.. its not technical ability we are after it is just hard work and endeavour, if Diony is fully fit there is no excuses for me.. the management need to drum it in to him that when you play up top for this club we want you to graft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 11, 2018 Report Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, bris red said: I totally agree with you regarding Reid..It makes you wonder or question why Diony didn't try and continue that yesterday.. its certainly not a question of ability as lets be honest Reid does a lot of donkey work that any player with the correct fitness levels should and can replicate.. its not technical ability we are after it is just hard work and endeavour, if Diony is fully fit there is no excuses for me.. the management need to drum it in to him that when you play up top for this club we want you to graft. Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 hours ago, bris red said: I totally agree with you regarding Reid..It makes you wonder or question why Diony didn't try and continue that yesterday.. its certainly not a question of ability as lets be honest Reid does a lot of donkey work that any player with the correct fitness levels should and can replicate.. its not technical ability we are after it is just hard work and endeavour, if Diony is fully fit there is no excuses for me.. the management need to drum it in to him that when you play up top for this club we want you to graft. Bored of saying it, but Diony was unwell the week before the game which would explain a lack of match fitness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Bored of saying it, but Diony was unwell the week before the game which would explain a lack of match fitness... How unwell was he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityCiderEd Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 39 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Bored of saying it, but Diony was unwell the week before the game which would explain a lack of match fitness... So it makes the decision for him to replace Bobby even more incredulous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 Apologies if this point of view has already appeared, but is it possible that the club feel it's too early to go up? Lee has repeatedly said that we are ahead of schedule, so it's possible that the club feels the 'schedule' (presumably a serious challenge for automatic promotion next season) is in the club's best interests. I get that - if the club feels that we are not equipped to stay in the premiership, but would bounce back immediately, possibly humiliated in the process, then I can understand the desire not to gamble everything on this season. So maybe the strategy is to continue to build, to see what happens this season, and if we don't make the playoffs to be in an even better position next season. I understand that the issue then would be to retain the players we need, but I'm sure they've thought about how they would deal with that, and will already be talking to those players and making contigencies for all eventualities. I'm not for a moment saying that the club are not trying to succeed this season, but it strikes me as likely that this season was considered too early for an 'all or nothing' gamble in the January transfer window. If we fail to go up this season, but come back stronger next then I'd be very happy indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said: So it makes the decision for him to replace Bobby even more incredulous. Yes, that's the tough one to understand. If Diony wasn't fully fit, what was he doing there? Has there ever been a better opportunity to give Gus Engvall some substantial playing time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said: So it makes the decision for him to replace Bobby even more incredulous. It’s incredibly well publicised that Reid was injured. At 3-0 it made perfect sense to give Diony game time even if not match fit. The real tactical error was failure to change things at 3-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 If Diony was that unwell and unfit, no way would he have been used for 45 mins. Give some credit to the coaching staff, they aren't dumb. He would have only been used if fit and healthy. Especially as Bobby wanted to play on. At 3-0 up and the way Sunderland were playing, it was the perfect opportunity to give the new signing 45 mins. Little did anyone know, that he'd put in such a poor performance that effected the whole energy, dynamic and front shape of the team. As for going up and signings in January...nobody knows what's in the budget for wages available. Buying in January with a hope of going up is never a good idea imo, everything is over inflated and you can get left with someone on high wages, with no motivation and a whole lot of change in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Apologies if this point of view has already appeared, but is it possible that the club feel it's too early to go up? Lee has repeatedly said that we are ahead of schedule, so it's possible that the club feels the 'schedule' (presumably a serious challenge for automatic promotion next season) is in the club's best interests. I get that - if the club feels that we are not equipped to stay in the premiership, but would bounce back immediately, possibly humiliated in the process, then I can understand the desire not to gamble everything on this season. So maybe the strategy is to continue to build, to see what happens this season, and if we don't make the playoffs to be in an even better position next season. I understand that the issue then would be to retain the players we need, but I'm sure they've thought about how they would deal with that, and will already be talking to those players and making contigencies for all eventualities. I'm not for a moment saying that the club are not trying to succeed this season, but it strikes me as likely that this season was considered too early for an 'all or nothing' gamble in the January transfer window. If we fail to go up this season, but come back stronger next then I'd be very happy indeed. Yes very possible. I believe the theory is our double season was a season premature too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 50 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: How unwell was he? Quite . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, spudski said: If Diony was that unwell and unfit, no way would he have been used for 45 mins. Give some credit to the coaching staff, they aren't dumb. He would have only been used if fit and healthy. Especially as Bobby wanted to play on. At 3-0 up and the way Sunderland were playing, it was the perfect opportunity to give the new signing 45 mins. Little did anyone know, that he'd put in such a poor performance that effected the whole energy, dynamic and front shape of the team. As for going up and signings in January...nobody knows what's in the budget for wages available. Buying in January with a hope of going up is never a good idea imo, everything is over inflated and you can get left with someone on high wages, with no motivation and a whole lot of change in the summer. Hence the deal for Diony is a good one . Loan with option to buy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityCiderEd Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, spudski said: If Diony was that unwell and unfit, no way would he have been used for 45 mins. Give some credit to the coaching staff, they aren't dumb. He would have only been used if fit and healthy. Especially as Bobby wanted to play on. At 3-0 up and the way Sunderland were playing, it was the perfect opportunity to give the new signing 45 mins. Little did anyone know, that he'd put in such a poor performance that effected the whole energy, dynamic and front shape of the team. As for going up and signings in January...nobody knows what's in the budget for wages available. Buying in January with a hope of going up is never a good idea imo, everything is over inflated and you can get left with someone on high wages, with no motivation and a whole lot of change in the summer. I only mentioned it @spudski because quite a few people on this thread have used it as an excuse for his poor performance. I agree with you totally,if he had been unwell most of the week he wouldn't have been given a run out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Apologies if this point of view has already appeared, but is it possible that the club feel it's too early to go up? Lee has repeatedly said that we are ahead of schedule, so it's possible that the club feels the 'schedule' (presumably a serious challenge for automatic promotion next season) is in the club's best interests. I get that - if the club feels that we are not equipped to stay in the premiership, but would bounce back immediately, possibly humiliated in the process, then I can understand the desire not to gamble everything on this season. So maybe the strategy is to continue to build, to see what happens this season, and if we don't make the playoffs to be in an even better position next season. I understand that the issue then would be to retain the players we need, but I'm sure they've thought about how they would deal with that, and will already be talking to those players and making contigencies for all eventualities. I'm not for a moment saying that the club are not trying to succeed this season, but it strikes me as likely that this season was considered too early for an 'all or nothing' gamble in the January transfer window. If we fail to go up this season, but come back stronger next then I'd be very happy indeed. Sadly there are no guarantees. Sheffield Weds and Reading must have thought that having got to the play offs last time out that the next step was automatic promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Major Isewater said: Hence the deal for Diony is a good one . Loan with option to buy . Yes Major...try before you buy. MA spoke about how that was the hardest part of the deal to organise. I'm guessing St Etiennne wanted to sell, but we were more cautious. I really do hope he turns into a fine player that fits with our play. I personally haven't seen it yet, but if they have been tracking him for a couple years, then they've obviously seen something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, CityCiderEd said: I only mentioned it @spudski because quite a few people on this thread have used it as an excuse for his poor performance. I agree with you totally,if he had been unwell most of the week he wouldn't have been given a run out. No worries fella...I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, spudski said: If Diony was that unwell and unfit, no way would he have been used for 45 mins. Give some credit to the coaching staff, they aren't dumb. He would have only been used if fit and healthy. Especially as Bobby wanted to play on. At 3-0 up and the way Sunderland were playing, it was the perfect opportunity to give the new signing 45 mins. Little did anyone know, that he'd put in such a poor performance that effected the whole energy, dynamic and front shape of the team. As for going up and signings in January...nobody knows what's in the budget for wages available. Buying in January with a hope of going up is never a good idea imo, everything is over inflated and you can get left with someone on high wages, with no motivation and a whole lot of change in the summer. If you were at the game it was obvious Bobby was injured. It was in his best interests to come off whether he wanted to continue or not. You're over criticising Diony imo, just because he may not naturally be a Bobby Reid type player - not many are - doesn't mean he wasn't trying his best and to lay such blame on him is OTT imo. If him coming on in those circumstances was likely to be so detrimental to the dynamics of the team the manager should have anticipated that, so the blame is his, not Diony's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: Apologies if this point of view has already appeared, but is it possible that the club feel it's too early to go up? Lee has repeatedly said that we are ahead of schedule, so it's possible that the club feels the 'schedule' (presumably a serious challenge for automatic promotion next season) is in the club's best interests. I get that - if the club feels that we are not equipped to stay in the premiership, but would bounce back immediately, possibly humiliated in the process, then I can understand the desire not to gamble everything on this season. So maybe the strategy is to continue to build, to see what happens this season, and if we don't make the playoffs to be in an even better position next season. I understand that the issue then would be to retain the players we need, but I'm sure they've thought about how they would deal with that, and will already be talking to those players and making contigencies for all eventualities. I'm not for a moment saying that the club are not trying to succeed this season, but it strikes me as likely that this season was considered too early for an 'all or nothing' gamble in the January transfer window. If we fail to go up this season, but come back stronger next then I'd be very happy indeed. I like your train of thought in these comments. How close to the truth they are, only SL, MA and LJ know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 18 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Hence the deal for Diony is a good one . Loan with option to buy . @Major Isewater aren't you a French speaker? This has been posted elsewhere but if you could give a good translation.. Came from Diony's instagram last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said: If you were at the game it was obvious Bobby was injured. It was in his best interests to come off whether he wanted to continue or not. You're over criticising Diony imo, just because he may not naturally be a Bobby Reid type player - not many are - doesn't mean he wasn't trying his best and to lay such blame on him is OTT imo. If him coming on in those circumstances was likely to be so detrimental to the dynamics of the team the manager should have anticipated that, so the blame is his, not Diony's. LJ said in hindsight, that he wouldn't have taken Reid off. He's been carrying a knock on the ankle for a while. Yes, I saw him hobbling at one point, and then not long after sprint after the ball. A player isn't going to risk further injury and have time out of the game. He knows his body and would only play if it was ok. Of course I was at the game, I wouldn't give such forthright observations otherwise. We will have to agree to disagree re Diony. I can try my best...doesn't mean I'd be good enough. What Diony shows in training might be completely different to what he did on Saturday. You can't blame the manager for that. If Diony played like that in training, do you honestly think he's say he was ready to play? He was playing a completely different game to everyone else. Yes he was making moves, but inappropriate to how we were playing. Even in the short highlights you can witness it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: Sadly there are no guarantees. Sheffield Weds and Reading must have thought that having got to the play offs last time out that the next step was automatic promotion. Quite agree about no guarantees. All available metrics (expected goals, shots etc) definitely suggest Reading were punching somewhat last season, so something of a drop off for them isn't too big a surprise (to drop off to this extent probably is though)! Sheff Wed are a different case though, clearly underachieving badly this year. I also agree with @spudski about Diony...the whole dynamic changed when he came on, the shape- the lot. I will accept it's only his first game and if there's ever a time to put a new striker on it's v Sunderland at home 3 up plus the fact his morale is clearly quite low after St Etienne, but...when it went to 3-1 I'd have stuck Walsh on for Diony and put him behind Fammy or put Walsh in Paterson's place and Paterson behind Fammy...a lot closer to the shape we had at our best in the Autumn-December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: @Major Isewater aren't you a French speaker? This has been posted elsewhere but if you could give a good translation.. Came from Diony's instagram last night. Been 'depressed' for a long time. 'Black hole' meaning depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 City are trying not to go up? Literally heard it all now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: @Major Isewater aren't you a French speaker? This has been posted elsewhere but if you could give a good translation.. Came from Diony's instagram last night. I've been in a black hole for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Quite agree about no guarantees. All available metrics (expected goals, shots etc) definitely suggest Reading were punching somewhat last season, so something of a drop off for them isn't too big a surprise (to drop off to this extent probably is though)! Sheff Wed are a different case though, clearly underachieving badly this year. I also agree with @spudski about Diony...the whole dynamic changed when he came on, the shape- the lot. I will accept it's only his first game and if there's ever a time to put a new striker on it's v Sunderland at home 3 up plus the fact his morale is clearly quite low after St Etienne, but...when it went to 3-1 I'd have stuck Walsh on for Diony and put him behind Fammy or put Walsh in Paterson's place and Paterson behind Fammy...a lot closer to the shape we had at our best in the Autumn-December. I think that bringing Walsh on was the right call at 3-1, but could Johnson really have subbed Diony? If he was in a trou noir before the match, he'd been in an even more noir trou if he'd been subbed after 25 minutes... Alors, time to move on I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: I've been in a black hole for a long time. I understand the loan deal is a way of seeing before we buy, but might it have been better on Saturday to put Engvall or even Eliasson up front instead. Easy to be wise after the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Grovesy Posted February 12, 2018 Report Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 hours ago, spudski said: Reid is the key player for us doing well. Not just in his energy, but the positive effect he has on everyone else. Having seen what we lost when Reid went off on Saturday (energy / positive effect) and knowing we are playing two physical teams in the next three (Leeds & Cardiff) I have some concerns that Bobby could be "clattered" early on in either of these games. Wouldn't surprise me to see this type of tactic from Colin at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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