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Major Isewater

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Has Steve Lansdown got the necessary ruthless streak to get the club into the Prem ? 

Lee Johnson , love him to bits but you could ask the same of him . 

Certain players are really top blokes , I won't mention names , but     We all know there are better options available who won't be pursued so as , seemingly not to upset the ' team spirit ' 

I know that Man City are minted but we showed up Mangala in our semi final and the next minute the lad has been replaced.

One bad match and out of the team he goes .

Do we stick with players who are not quite good enough just because they are top lads in the dressing room ? 

Why didn't we bring in a right back ? 

Was it to avoid upsetting one of  Wright or Flint or A.N Other ? 

This is a genuine question  and not a club bashing thread because I really believe that we have come on in leaps and bounds in the last few years but there is a niggling doubt as to if the club are hard nosed enough  to push on .

 

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Interesting thread, but this view comes up periodically- in the past I may well have agreed, but  not entirely sure where the perception comes from at the current time.

Lansdown- he does back his managers, but you don't accumulate wealth like his and a financial career like his without a ruthless, hard nosed- possibly at times nasty- streak to you. (Not suggesting SL is nasty, far from it but long careers in finance...long careers as CEO even, it's a necessity).

LJ, jury out in terms of his hard edge..reckon he probably has one somewhere though, something that might come as he gains more experience...

The players are pretty good and we are building something here...a team spirit is something that's hard to nurture but very easy to wreck with the wrong signing. A right back on loan would have been ideal though...but perhaps the right one wasn't available?

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Major, I think you may have some grains of truth. However, I now am coming to the conclusion that, while we had a good run in both league and cup, that the long term injuries have highlighted very clearly that our squad lacks the depth of quality needed at this and higher levels.  

To go up at the end of this season, would mean that we'd need a massive influx in the summer.

Thus, the January recruitment was more conservative than many of us expected if a real push for promotion was in the club's thinking. The Club would not state publicly that we didn't want it this season as it could have a very negative impact on players and supporters. 

We'll keep fighting and may just make the play offs but I'm now thinking that the real push will be next season or even the one after. We have some very good Academy boys who in a couple of seasons may form a larger part of the squad along with a small number of higher quality recruits that are a couple or three years further on than the aforementioned Academy boys. And it will be a certainty that some of the current first team will have been sold to pay for these recruits. 

Another factor could be that we've only had one season, this one, with gates regularly over 20,000. Another season or two at this level, with decent cup runs, would really help us with FFP. 

So is it another year or two of us being patient? I believe it might be that way but at age 75, I hope I can delay the inevitable and be able to see us up there. 

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1 hour ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Steve Lansdown is far ruthless than his demeanour would ever let on - I’ve heard that first hand from someone who worked very closely.

Me too.  Perhaps the new stadium conceals ‘things’ in the concrete....capisce!!!  (Pisce is no fish pun neither)

Seriously though, back to Major’s OP, how much would we have needed to spend to ‘guarantee’ promotion?  

Probably £10m+ on a proven striker, another £8-10m on a top midfielder, £5m on a right-back, perhaps another £5-8m on a wide player....so in the region of £30m, plus signing fees, plus wages....all at the top of / above our structure. And who;s to say it might have ended up being a bidding war with your Villa’s, your Derby’s etc, where we might have to go for higher wages to convince them.

Of course I said ‘guaranteed’....would it really?

And would those players be good enough for the Prem, if we got there?  Your Hugill’s, your Afobe’s, who knows?  Do you end up with players who then fall into the gap between Prem/Champ.

Its a crap comment, but I think we got here 6 months too early, and January is a tough market to make a difference.  Tough call, but I'm happy.  One club (at least) out of Villa, Derby, Cardiff are gonna be under serious financial pressure if they remain in this division next season.  Villa will be shit or bust if they go into next season...their last parachute money (PM) season.  I think that is why they must make sure they go up.  Norwich are already preparing for life without PMs, cutting their cloth and squad accordingly.

Depends On who comes down, but it could be a more level playing field next season, if Wolves and Villa, coupled with Newcastle last season go up.

Let’s see how this season goes, it’s still well on to get to play offs.  But the summer is the time to make the squad ready for a proper push.

I know plenty on here will say the last window was the time, and we missed the boat.  Who knows, but i’m happy with the approach we took.

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59 minutes ago, Red Right Hand said:

Don`t Norwich & Villa have another year of payments after this one? I thought clubs had three after relegation.

Yes, the point I was making was would you want to throw everything into season 3 and fail?  Season 3 is about managing the possible fallout of failure.  Think Norwich are being pragmatic, seeing how far off they are, Villa still gambling.  Probably right in their position, but should they miss out, they’ll be under massive financial pressure next season.

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5 minutes ago, reddoh said:

Please can we have him and pair him with a new norman and my all time favourite Tommy Smith (wish he had played for us) Gow in front of those two orgasmic

What, and play most games with 8 players?

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Me too.  Perhaps the new stadium conceals ‘things’ in the concrete....capisce!!!  (Pisce is no fish pun neither)

Seriously though, back to Major’s OP, how much would we have needed to spend to ‘guarantee’ promotion?  

Probably £10m+ on a proven striker, another £8-10m on a top midfielder, £5m on a right-back, perhaps another £5-8m on a wide player....so in the region of £30m, plus signing fees, plus wages....all at the top of / above our structure. And who;s to say it might have ended up being a bidding war with your Villa’s, your Derby’s etc, where we might have to go for higher wages to convince them.

Of course I said ‘guaranteed’....would it really?

And would those players be good enough for the Prem, if we got there?  Your Hugill’s, your Afobe’s, who knows?  Do you end up with players who then fall into the gap between Prem/Champ.

Its a crap comment, but I think we got here 6 months too early, and January is a tough market to make a difference.  Tough call, but I'm happy.  One club (at least) out of Villa, Derby, Cardiff are gonna be under serious financial pressure if they remain in this division next season.  Villa will be shit or bust if they go into next season...their last parachute money (PM) season.  I think that is why they must make sure they go up.  Norwich are already preparing for life without PMs, cutting their cloth and squad accordingly.

Depends On who comes down, but it could be a more level playing field next season, if Wolves and Villa, coupled with Newcastle last season go up.

Let’s see how this season goes, it’s still well on to get to play offs.  But the summer is the time to make the squad ready for a proper push.

I know plenty on here will say the last window was the time, and we missed the boat.  Who knows, but i’m happy with the approach we took.

I tend to agree. But then again I can see an ambivalent view.

I’d have loved to have seen SL back the club fully in the way say Wolves have done and made a real statement of intent.

Instead we seem to have managed to keep those who appeared to be targets for others, brought little of any real substance in and are now seeing performances tail off.

Or perhaps we rode our luck in the Energy Drink cup....

Either way I can’t see we’re strong enough or good enough. To go up - perhaps yet - or survive up there.

The thing that plays on my mind is that we’ve been here before, didn’t capitalise on that and slipped back.

Is that our destiny? Is this as good as it gets? 

Bit like getting a wink (that’s W I N K) or smile from the good looking bird in class all those years ago and it going no further. 

And I went to the Chase for my first four years :yes:

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Good post Major. I do think there's a problem with selecting BW in his best position, especially while Flint is performing heroics. How could he replace Flint with a shorter less dominant player who rarely pops up with a goal? Much easier it would seem to, slot him into the left central defensive spot on a temporary basis where he seems uncomfortable, pull a midfielder out of position or slot Magnússon there as a straight replacement. So what happens when Pisano is fit? Does he go with a flat back four and drop BW, (can't see him leaving out his captain) or play all three CBs with two wing backs. It's going to be a difficult decision, one I doubt he's had to ponder yet, and interesting to see.

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7 minutes ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

I tend to agree. But then again I can see an ambivalent view.

I’d have loved to have seen SL back the club fully in the way say Wolves have done and made a real statement of intent.

Instead we seem to have managed to keep those who appeared to be targets for others, brought little of any real substance in and are now seeing performances tail off.

Or perhaps we rode our luck in the Energy Drink cup....

Either way I can’t see we’re strong enough or good enough. To go up - perhaps yet - or survive up there.

The thing that plays on my mind is that we’ve been here before, didn’t capitalise on that and slipped back.

Is that our destiny? Is this as good as it gets? 

Bit like getting a wink (that’s W I N K) or smile from the good looking bird in class all those years ago and it going no further. 

And I went to the Chase for my first four years :yes:

Its true.. its the being here before in 2008 that is what is slightly irritating for me personally. What will be will be this season but for me next season has to be a pretty big one if we dont go up.. instead of slowly going backwards like we did after the 2008 play off final, we need to build on this season..

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1 hour ago, BigAlToby&Liam said:

I tend to agree. But then again I can see an ambivalent view.

I’d have loved to have seen SL back the club fully in the way say Wolves have done and made a real statement of intent.

Instead we seem to have managed to keep those who appeared to be targets for others, brought little of any real substance in and are now seeing performances tail off.

Or perhaps we rode our luck in the Energy Drink cup....

Either way I can’t see we’re strong enough or good enough. To go up - perhaps yet - or survive up there.

The thing that plays on my mind is that we’ve been here before, didn’t capitalise on that and slipped back.

Is that our destiny? Is this as good as it gets? 

Bit like getting a wink (that’s W I N K) or smile from the good looking bird in class all those years ago and it going no further. 

And I went to the Chase for my first four years :yes:

Interesting you mention Wolves.  Presumably you mean this season, rather than the many many years that Jack Hayward threw his cash at Wolves with very little reward.  Money doesn't guarantee success, especially when there's so much competition for 2nd, and there's a danger we could destroy what's been built over the last few seasons.

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I would have loved it if we had made a statement of intent in the window to show we were serious about promotion. Sadly I feel we  may have missed the best opportunity we  have possibly had for now and maybe the next few years.Whilst I think the window wasn't bad it certainly wasn't the one I was hoping for. A decent goalscorer, attacking mf and a rb (on loan) could have given us the extra bit of class that could have pushed us over the line.It's been a marvellous season up to now and I hope it continues but feel we may come up short.

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7 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Has Steve Lansdown got the necessary ruthless streak to get the club into the Prem ? 

Lee Johnson , love him to bits but you could ask the same of him . 

Certain players are really top blokes , I won't mention names , but     We all know there are better options available who won't be pursued so as , seemingly not to upset the ' team spirit ' 

I know that Man City are minted but we showed up Mangala in our semi final and the next minute the lad has been replaced.

One bad match and out of the team he goes .

Do we stick with players who are not quite good enough just because they are top lads in the dressing room ? 

Why didn't we bring in a right back ? 

Was it to avoid upsetting one of  Wright or Flint or A.N Other ? 

This is a genuine question  and not a club bashing thread because I really believe that we have come on in leaps and bounds in the last few years but there is a niggling doubt as to if the club are hard nosed enough  to push on .

 

Well said that man and its about time the glasses came off.  I heard that the entire team we put out to the home game against Man city was acquired for a total of £7m - an eighth of the price of their new defender.  It still seems like a casual toy thing when that is the investment.  Despite the improvements to the ground, in-house player growth and herculean efforts of some this season this is still the do it on the cheap club in relation to others with the same apparent aspirations.  Lets not beat around the old bush here - this is not the same world in football of 1976.  If we go up which is highly unlikely now IMO, we would be embarrassed beyond anyones imagination and I sense an OTIB meltdown would be on the cards.

This is a lovely club. And I'm proud of our uniqueness.  Our songs and tradition.  But I think the OP has highlighted a few truths about how nice we are and I don't think that equals Premiership and I don't think the business side does either.  The improvement in facilities for both supporters and players alike had to be coming anyway to be a competing championship club. 

There is still time to dine at the top table but it isn't yet by any means.

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16 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Major, I think you may have some grains of truth. However, I now am coming to the conclusion that, while we had a good run in both league and cup, that the long term injuries have highlighted very clearly that our squad lacks the depth of quality needed at this and higher levels.  

To go up at the end of this season, would mean that we'd need a massive influx in the summer.

Thus, the January recruitment was more conservative than many of us expected if a real push for promotion was in the club's thinking. The Club would not state publicly that we didn't want it this season as it could have a very negative impact on players and supporters. 

We'll keep fighting and may just make the play offs but I'm now thinking that the real push will be next season or even the one after. We have some very good Academy boys who in a couple of seasons may form a larger part of the squad along with a small number of higher quality recruits that are a couple or three years further on than the aforementioned Academy boys. And it will be a certainty that some of the current first team will have been sold to pay for these recruits. 

Another factor could be that we've only had one season, this one, with gates regularly over 20,000. Another season or two at this level, with decent cup runs, would really help us with FFP. 

So is it another year or two of us being patient? I believe it might be that way but at age 75, I hope I can delay the inevitable and be able to see us up there. 

While I agree with a lot of this, but...

The truth is our medium to long term injuries have been freakish this season. Take a similar number of first teamers out of Wolves or Villa even, let alone anyone else for so long- plus first reserves like Djuric, squad players like Hegeler and O'Neil who offer experience or a chance to shore up and I guarantee they would have had a more disjointed season than they've had. Could turn it on its head a bit and say the reason we've done so well is the ability to rejig, to mix and match...and it can't be done without some depth IMO.

Second line about influx, for sure- absolutely we would, experience and quality to come in if we go up but really returning to this season, I think most sides would have been badly affected by all the disruption we've had with injuries- to say nothing of the unlucky Wright and Baker suspensions- this season. Even Wolves.

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21 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Has Steve Lansdown got the necessary ruthless streak to get the club into the Prem ? 

Lee Johnson , love him to bits but you could ask the same of him . 

Certain players are really top blokes , I won't mention names , but     We all know there are better options available who won't be pursued so as , seemingly not to upset the ' team spirit ' 

I know that Man City are minted but we showed up Mangala in our semi final and the next minute the lad has been replaced.

One bad match and out of the team he goes .

Do we stick with players who are not quite good enough just because they are top lads in the dressing room ? 

Why didn't we bring in a right back ? 

Was it to avoid upsetting one of  Wright or Flint or A.N Other ? 

This is a genuine question  and not a club bashing thread because I really believe that we have come on in leaps and bounds in the last few years but there is a niggling doubt as to if the club are hard nosed enough  to push on .

 

It's amazing how these things come up when form dips

Fans were lapping up this coaches spirit and team spirit not long ago.

Now it's 'Bristol City Cosy Club'

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Mangala hasn't been up to standard for a while for Man City, it's not like he's been playing good up until he played against us and that's the reason he's out on loan. Man City brought in a new CB meaning Mangala wasn't needed for back up. Anyway, I expect the club are ruthless enough to replace when players need replacing but as Mark Ashton puts it, the players have to have the right DNA. 

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I'm proud of the way the club is being managed from top to bottom, there is a huge amount of respect and loyalty which has been proven so many times in the last 12 months by players and staff. I've seen enough this season already to suggest that even  if we do end up missing out on top 6  this year (which is still incredible given where we were 12 months ago) then we already have a plan for next, don't think we need to be ruthless just consistent and together.  We look like a premiership outfit, pretty sure it wont be long before we are one.

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