I know a lot of people like Ryan Kent

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

Hi mate...The introduction of Kent and Diony will always be difficult as imo, they aren't naturally suited to our way of playing. However...tonight I thought it was down to two individual mistakes in the lack of reaction time. whether that's down to complacency is another debate...regardless of that thought, I still don't think JB is a good LB when the ball is behind him or level.

So disappointed to have lost a 2 nil lead, but had us down for a 1-1 at the start. I don't blame LJ this time...players seemed to lack concentration 2nd half.

Yes, good point....perhaps we should’ve just brought in more of ‘our type’.  I did worry about bringing in a winger (Kent), as we don’t really play with them.  Diony, in theory, is the right type...but tough to integrate.

I don’t blame 1 person, but needed to react to a change in the momentum of the game.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

Hi mate...The introduction of Kent and Diony will always be difficult as imo, they aren't naturally suited to our way of playing. However...tonight I thought it was down to two individual mistakes in the lack of reaction time. whether that's down to complacency is another debate...regardless of that thought, I still don't think JB is a good LB when the ball is behind him or level.

So disappointed to have lost a 2 nil lead, but had us down for a 1-1 at the start. I don't blame LJ this time...players seemed to lack concentration 2nd half.

The problem for me was a carbon copy of the Sunderland game, a game of 2 halves again.

Kent who had a good first half in both games became greedy and wasteful, last week he missed 2 golden opportunities to put the game to bed and then got greedier as game wore on and as for today I said earlier I lost count in the 2nd half the amount of times he tried to beat one more player and was dispossessed they moved the ball forward quickly and we were suddenly under pressure, he did it 3 times in the last 15 minutes, I think once leading to Pack's yellow card. 

[spudski]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

The problem for me was a carbon copy of the Sunderland game, a game of 2 halves again.

Kent who had a good first half in both games became greedy and wasteful, last week he missed 2 golden opportunities to put the game to bed and then got greedier as game wore on and as for today I said earlier I lost count in the 2nd half the amount of times he tried to beat one more player and was dispossessed they moved the ball forward quickly and we were suddenly under pressure, he did it 3 times in the last 15 minutes, I think once leading to Pack's yellow card. 

You're not going to change him EMB...it's his way. Seen it so many times. He'll end up playing mid table Championship from team to team.

Some people in the game see his ability to pass people etc...and get taken in by that ability. Surely you have to judge on the end product? What does he actually do apart from beat a couple players?

[milo1111]

5 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

I don’t see it personally. Just dribbles around aimlessly and on the one odd occasion he beats a man he just passes it to the oppostion?

Anyone shed light as to what they see in him?

 

not to mention how greedy he is

Totally agree with this. Not ready for this level. I’m sure I saw something on here as well a few weeks back about a scout report saying how he can beat a man but has no concept that there may be a second defender lurking in support to mop up if he knocks it too far ahead around the man..... did that quite a few times today. 

Not saying we shouldn’t of taken him on loan but he isn’t a nailed on starter for me.

[milo1111]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

You're not going to change him EMB...it's his way. Seen it so many times. He'll end up playing mid table Championship from team to team.

Some people in the game see his ability to pass people etc...and get taken in by that ability. Surely you have to judge on the end product? What does he actually do apart from beat a couple players?

Exactly. No composure at all. He said himself when he joined he had to improve his numbers ie. goals and assists but can’t see he will. Just hasn’t got the quality. 

Quality costs money and we can’t/ won’t pay it.

[Olé]

4 hours ago, EmersonsRed said:

I don’t see it personally. Just dribbles around aimlessly and on the one odd occasion he beats a man he just passes it to the oppostion?

Anyone shed light as to what they see in him?

 

not to mention how greedy he is

Just got home and I'm prepared to stick my neck out and join you. I posted on here from the Bolton game, admittedly a few drinks deep on a Friday night, but saying that I wasn't impressed, and was quite surprised to read and hear everyone, Lee Johnson included, talking about what a good game he had. It put me in mind of the fact that he does tend to look great 40 yards out, and if running with the ball at pace won games, he'd be amazing, but sadly to win games you need to combine with teammates.

Every single game I've seen him play, he looks completely at odds with the sort of teamwork that has made our team so good. He doesn't ever get his head up, he very rarely understands what passes are on, when under pressure from defenders he seems to go into slow motion with his decision making and rarely passes or beats the player, just gives it away. This is not me writing off the player, he is young and obviously has the natural attributes to be a very good footballer, but he's wasted with us.

He's not a bad player, but I couldn't honestly say he was a big part of the best things we did, and he offers little or no support to Joe Bryan defensively, which began to really show in the last 20 (I thought Joe had a great game for an hour, very streetwise and got in front of defenders frequently, but in the end our left flank was like a runway for them in the final ten minutes). We are really missing O'Dowda (wing play with strength and awareness) and particularly Duric (only one who can hold it up). 

[Merrick's Marvels]

We should have stumped up for Marley Watkins. Maybe in the summer. Kent is just a headless chicken. 

[glynriley]

4 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

We should have stumped up for Marley Watkins. Maybe in the summer. Kent is just a headless chicken. 

Miracle Mike?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

10 hours ago, spudski said:

You're not going to change him EMB...it's his way. Seen it so many times. He'll end up playing mid table Championship from team to team.

Some people in the game see his ability to pass people etc...and get taken in by that ability. Surely you have to judge on the end product? What does he actually do apart from beat a couple players?

I would have thought within our own academy we have a player with similar ability to beat opponents who on the odd occasion when it all comes together is brilliant but in the main has little or no end product.

Personally I find it a strange signing, he is 21 years old and apparently still learning the game, well let him learn elsewhere as far as i'm concerned, I agree with you, my prediction is within the next year he will end up the way of most Liverpool/Chelsea/Manc academy players either playing for a championship club or in a lower premiership team, personally a right back signing would and should have been the January priority.

I am so far not impressed, but I am sure like most wingers before the end of the season he will have one great game which will elevate him to legend status.

[ZiderEyed]

4 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

I would have thought within our own academy we have a player with similar ability to beat opponents who on the odd occasion when it all comes together is brilliant but in the main has little or no end product.

Personally I find it a strange signing, he is 21 years old and apparently still learning the game, well let him learn elsewhere as far as i'm concerned, I agree with you, my prediction is within the next year he will end up the way of most Liverpool/Chelsea/Manc academy players either playing for a championship club or in a lower premiership team, personally a right back signing would and should have been the January priority.

I am so far not impressed, but I am sure like most wingers before the end of the season he will have one great game which will elevate him to legend status.

Probably Opi Edwards?

[BRISTOL86]

He needs a bit more intelligence around him for his ability to shine I feel - I lost count of the number of times yesterday he was either looking for a striker to find a channel or looking for an overlapping Bryan and found neither. Thus forced into trying to do too much himself. 

Agree sometimes he needs to just play the simple pass but his energy and quick feet are an asset we didn’t have before his arrival. He’s a threat. Not his fault we conceded 5 goals from 3-0 and 2-0 up. He also works very hard to protect his fullback. 

He’s young and hasn’t played tons of league football. Bigger clubs than us wanted him so I doubt they’re all wrong. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Of course the more important question for me is quite simple, why are we wasting time on a player who will never actually become a BCFC player, when we have loaned a player that we have agreed to sign for next season if his loan works out?.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

He needs a bit more intelligence around him for his ability to shine I feel - I lost count of the number of times yesterday he was either looking for a striker to find a channel or looking for an overlapping Bryan and found neither. Thus forced into trying to do too much himself. 

Agree sometimes he needs to just play the simple pass but his energy and quick feet are an asset we didn’t have before his arrival. He’s a threat. Not his fault we conceded 5 goals from 3-0 and 2-0 up. He also works very hard to protect his fullback. 

He’s young and hasn’t played tons of league football. Bigger clubs than us wanted him so I doubt they’re all wrong. 

Sorry I never saw that at all, I saw a player in both games (and here I will add a caveat) and maybe on instructions from LJ, who played as a team player for the first half of both games, but in the 2nd half of both games became selfish, greedy, head down and not looking for the easy option, just looking to beat the extra man every time and failing every time, the only difference this week was he never missed 2 gilt edged opportunities in the 2nd half.

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

Had a really impressive first half I thought. 2nd half our whole midfield was pushed back either by accident or design, so there was less support or options when he broke away.

His shot at 2-0 up was as well struck as could have been expected and brought a great save from their keeper.

Like last week, when he shot just past the post at 3-0 up, a goal then would have made all the difference, both for the team and the player himself.

Very small margins - we could very easily be talking about Kent scoring in successive wins.

Leeds obviously thought of him as a danger man the number of players who chased him from all areas to try and corner him when he broke away.

 

[BRISTOL86]

7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry I never saw that at all, I saw a player in both games (and here I will add a caveat) and maybe on instructions from LJ, who played as a team player for the first half of both games, but in the 2nd half of both games became selfish, greedy, head down and not looking for the easy option, just looking to beat the extra man every time and failing every time, the only difference this week was he never missed 2 gilt edged opportunities in the 2nd half.

 

He’d have been the hero if his effort hadn’t gone marginally wide v Sunderland at 3-2 (I think ?) 

He’s a young player, he’s never going to get everything right (same goes for he likes of Pato, COD, etc.) 

He looks a lot more likely than Paterson to make something happen for me though especially on recent form. I do agree that sometimes he needs to pick the easy option and be a bit less predictable - ie doesn’t always need to beat his man. But we’ve been crying out for someone who can run at a full back and beat him with pace/skill rather than trying to always score the perfect goal through the middle. 

[Cowshed]

45 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

He needs a bit more intelligence around him for his ability to shine I feel - I lost count of the number of times yesterday he was either looking for a striker to find a channel or looking for an overlapping Bryan and found neither. Thus forced into trying to do too much himself. 

Agree sometimes he needs to just play the simple pass but his energy and quick feet are an asset we didn’t have before his arrival. He’s a threat. Not his fault we conceded 5 goals from 3-0 and 2-0 up. He also works very hard to protect his fullback. 

He’s young and hasn’t played tons of league football. Bigger clubs than us wanted him so I doubt they’re all wrong. 

I do not think he is scanning the pitch frequently enough. Hence why he does not pass simply to team mates and veers across the pitch on dribbles that are futile and will not penetrate the opposition. 

The image I cannot conjure up is of a player in an open body position, taking the ball on the back foot head up looking for options and then rolling it to team mates calming the game down ... In the short period the player has been at BCFC the image I have is of an individual whose head is down cutting inside into traffic dribbling nowhere.

Head up more he will be a different proposition, but he looks to lack discipline to fit in with BCFC out of possession and in it.

[BRISTOL86]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I do not think he is scanning the pitch frequently enough. Hence why he does not pass simply to team mates and veers across the pitch on dribbles that are futile and will not penetrate the opposition. 

The image I cannot conjure up is of a player in an open body position, taking the ball on the back foot head up looking for options and then rolling it to team mates calming the game down ... In the short period the player has been at BCFC the image I have is of an individual whose head is down cutting inside into traffic dribbling nowhere.

Head up more he will be a different proposition, but he looks to lack discipline to fit in with BCFC out of possession and in it.

Funny how people see things differently. I think his defensive work rate has been really good and out of possession is certainly putting a fair shift in. I certainly think it’s too early to be writing him off as a failure just yet. 

If we’d have won 3-0 and 2-0 I don’t think this thread would have even happened. We always seem to need a scapegoat. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

33 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

He’d have been the hero if his effort hadn’t gone marginally wide v Sunderland at 3-2 (I think ?) 

He’s a young player, he’s never going to get everything right (same goes for he likes of Pato, COD, etc.) 

He looks a lot more likely than Paterson to make something happen for me though especially on recent form. I do agree that sometimes he needs to pick the easy option and be a bit less predictable - ie doesn’t always need to beat his man. But we’ve been crying out for someone who can run at a full back and beat him with pace/skill rather than trying to always score the perfect goal through the middle. 

For me I believe COD is a far better more rounded player.

Yes we have a player who can do that on the outside, Kent just keeps cutting inside every time.

Your comment about the perfect goal perfectly fits the 2nd half performance of Kent in our last 2 games.

He is not our player and hopefully never will be, if we are to be hopeful of the improved top 10 position, then I would rather see one of our own wingers flatter to deceive not a premierships club winger.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

6 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

Funny how people see things differently. I think his defensive work rate has been really good and out of possession is certainly putting a fair shift in. I certainly think it’s too early to be writing him off as a failure just yet. 

If we’d have won 3-0 and 2-0 I don’t think this thread would have even happened. We always seem to need a scapegoat. 

Sorry that is just a get out clause, he is not a scapegoat, it is people saying that he played really well in first half of both of our last 2 games and then played totally differently in the 2nd half.

A scapegoat is what people were saying about Diony last week.

[Cowshed]

17 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

)Funny how people see things differently. I think his defensive work rate has been really good and out of possession is certainly putting a fair shift in. I certainly think it’s too early to be writing him off as a failure just yet. 

If we’d have won 3-0 and 2-0 I don’t think this thread would have even happened. We always seem to need a scapegoat. 

I have made similar points regarding possession, patterns of play previously regarding  full backs, Keeper ... BCFC were pass and move ... Ryan Kent looks to be totally different and odd fit(?). That is not scapegoating. Its about how does he fit.

I would question how players play off him in a similar manner to they struggled with Tomlin. Its difficult to go down patterns of play like simple wall passes when he will not release the ball, and you have no idea what he is going to do. 

O'Dowda and Patterson are more disciplined and maintain a better shape and fit in with the above.. Kents ill discipline with the ball will mean he will have to be brilliant to make up for it. 

[BRISTOL86]

7 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

For me I believe COD is a far better more rounded player.

Yes we have a player who can do that on the outside, Kent just keeps cutting inside every time.

Your comment about the perfect goal perfectly fits the 2nd half performance of Kent in our last 2 games.

He is not our player and hopefully never will be, if we are to be hopeful of the improved top 10 position, then I would rather see one of our own wingers flatter to deceive not a premierships club winger.

 

I like COD a lot but he wasn’t anywhere near the level he’s at now (well before his injury) when he first started playing for us. Like almost every player at the club, he’s improved under Johnson.

I think Kent has a massive amount of potential and when fully up to speed under our system and style would be a big asset.

But I don’t know whether we have any potential for him to ever be our player permanently. Depends a lot I guess on the outcome of this season which could still go any which way. 

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Sorry that is just a get out clause, he is not a scapegoat, it is people saying that he played really well in first half of both of our last 2 games and then played totally differently in the 2nd half.

A scapegoat is what people were saying about Diony last week.

Get out of what? He is a scapegoat in that people are looking for the negatives after two draws that feel like defeats. Like all wingers I think he’ll have games where he is able to influence and games where he can’t (same goes for the likes of COD and Pato)

IMO Kent didn’t do anything that contributed to the defensive capitulation two weeks running and I think is perhaps a bit unfairly being singled out for criticism when the whole team was awful for two halves of the last two games. 

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I have made similar points regarding possession, patterns of play previously regarding  full backs, Keeper ... BCFC were pass and move ... Ryan Kent looks to be totally different and odd fit(?.

I would question how players play off him in a similar manner to they struggled with Tomlin. Its difficult to go down patterns of play like simple wall passes when he will not release the ball, and you have no idea what he is going to do. 

O'Dowda and Patterson are more disciplined and maintain a better shape and fit in with the above.. Kents ill discipline with the ball will mean he will have to be brilliant to make up for it. 

I’m no tactical guru but I think one thing Kent does very well is draw defenders out of shape and create space. They double teamed him a lot yesterday which led to plenty of times where we should have had a runner in an advanced position and often there was none. Bryan made a few runs and to be fair to Kent I thought they linked up a fair bit well in the first half. 

I guess a lot comes down to the time needed to get attuned with the system and the team mates. Time being the one thing we’re running out of as the games go by. Personally I’d be quite excited to see a Ryan Kent that’s had a full pre season with this team. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I like COD a lot but he wasn’t anywhere near the level he’s at now (well before his injury) when he first started playing for us. Like almost every player at the club, he’s improved under Johnson.

I think Kent has a massive amount of potential and when fully up to speed under our system and style would be a big asset.

But I don’t know whether we have any potential for him to ever be our player permanently. Depends a lot I guess on the outcome of this season which could still go any which way. 

Get out of what? He is a scapegoat in that people are looking for the negatives after two draws that feel like defeats. Like all wingers I think he’ll have games where he is able to influence and games where he can’t (same goes for the likes of COD and Pato)

IMO Kent didn’t do anything that contributed to the defensive capitulation two weeks running and I think is perhaps a bit unfairly being singled out for criticism when the whole team was awful for two halves of the last two games. 

Not an asset for us and never will be.

No it's a negative, the glaring differential between his first and second half performances in both games, is it him or is he under instruction?.

I agree about the defensive capitulation, but in both games for in excess of an hour we were in full control, in the first game he missed 2 game winning chances and against Leeds he ignored the simple pass on countless occasions and was caught out causing us to be under unnecessary pressure.

 

[Robbored]

16 hours ago, Sparkz 76 said:

Salah Mane Firminho 

All top class PL players - Kent isn't yet and that's why he's out on loan.

[BRISTOL86]

5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Not an asset for us and never will be.

No it's a negative, the glaring differential between his first and second half performances in both games, is it him or is he under instruction?.

I agree about the defensive capitulation, but in both games for in excess of an hour we were in full control, in the first game he missed 2 game winning chances and against Leeds he ignored the simple pass on countless occasions and was caught out causing us to be under unnecessary pressure.

 

He’s a forward. He’s going to miss a lot more chances than he scores. Nature of the game. Even world class strikers miss half the chances they get. Better decision making comes with game time. I agree that he made one really poor decision vs Sunderland but then was an inch from atoning for it. Tell me a player in this team who makes the right decision all the time? That’s why they play for us! 

My main point was that at 3-0 and 2-0 respectively by half time , the offensive players have ‘done their bit’ IMO. If we’re going to single out a player for criticism on the back of those two games it baffles me that it’s an offensive player. 

[Beni71]

What I like about Kent is that he doesn’t hide. He always wants the ball where ever he is on the pitch. Like most players can always improve his decision making. 

[Steve Watts]

16 hours ago, MattWSM said:

Kent and diedhou shouldn't be starters.

They would work better as impact players when the opposition energy levels are dropping.

They both lose the ball for the team regularly.

Durij is not good enough for this level nor is Woodrow or Ellison.

Looking forward to Hegeler and O dowda. 

Matty Taylor causes problems and panic but again shouldn't be a starter at this level. 

 

Not sure about O Neil and don't know enough of Pisano. Instinct is O Neil may be too slow and give the ball away too often but maybe a few games will be fine after a long time out but will he be fit. Probably 60 minutes only at most.

I agree about Kent.  He's going to be some player in a couple of years, but too much running into blind alleys for me at the moment.  Yes, he's learning, but I'm not sure we can afford to carry his development with where we currently are in the table.

As for the rest of the post, I struggle to understand where you're coming from at all with some of it.

You don't believe Diedhou, who has scored in the first half in at least three matches since he returned from injury shouldn't be playing in the first half?  And he loses the ball regularly?  Are you even watching the same player?  His hold up play is excellent!  It's no coincidence that Bobby is back in form now Famara is back in the team.

Djuric I don't believe has done anything since he's been here that would suggest to me that he won't make it at this level.  Considering he has been carrying an injury I'd say he's been excellent for us.  A threat in the area, strong, rarely if ever loses an aerial challenge, and can finish.  I'm not sure what else you want from him?  Eliasson  hasn't been given enough of a chance to show if he can make it yet.  I think he could, but his time isn't now.

Hegeler has flattered to deceive, but hasn't really been given much of a chance to show that he can make it at this level.  Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but I'm not convinced enough to throw him straight back in.  A fully fit C'OD however would be a massive boost for us.

I do agree about Taylor....not sure he's good enough at this level from what he's seen so far.

O'Neill the jury is very much out on.  If it's true that we've not seen him fully fit since he joined then we could be about to see the real O'Neill and a judgement can be made then, but as for Pisano....I can only imagine you've not seen us a lot before he got injured.  For me he's been possibly our biggest miss.  Great energy, hard (but clean) tackle, covers his position extremely well, whilst offering good support to whoever has played in front of him. 

For me, the returns of Diedhou, Djuric, Pisano and O'Dowda are crucial to our push for the play-offs.  One down, three to go.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

32 minutes ago, BRISTOL86 said:

He’s a forward. He’s going to miss a lot more chances than he scores. Nature of the game. Even world class strikers miss half the chances they get. Better decision making comes with game time. I agree that he made one really poor decision vs Sunderland but then was an inch from atoning for it. Tell me a player in this team who makes the right decision all the time? That’s why they play for us! 

My main point was that at 3-0 and 2-0 respectively by half time , the offensive players have ‘done their bit’ IMO. If we’re going to single out a player for criticism on the back of those two games it baffles me that it’s an offensive player. 

So why change his style of play from one that was successful for the first half of 2 games?.

For 2 years now we have been brittle when conceding a goal from a seemingly winning position, every time it's because we inexplicably change our style of play at half time and his contribution IMO is the most glaring example, individual defensive mistakes will always happen but if we are suddenly under increasing pressure, those mistakes will multiply.

I actually question his signing, I view it as an unnecessary signing, a right back would have been the logical choice.

[BRISTOL86]

2 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

So why change his style of play from one that was successful for the first half of 2 games?.

For 2 years now we have been brittle when conceding a goal from a seemingly winning position, every time it's because we inexplicably change our style of play at half time and his contribution IMO is the most glaring example, individual defensive mistakes will always happen but if we are suddenly under increasing pressure, those mistakes will multiply.

I actually question his signing, I view it as an unnecessary signing, a right back would have been the logical choice.

Is there any evidence that we didn’t try to sign a right back? I can’t see that signing a left winger means we didn’t want to sign a right back unless I’m missing something. With Pisano due back in Feb perhaps it was just deemed an unnecessary signing if there wasn’t a stand out potential recruit. Especially when you consider that it’s only a bizarre red card that led to our right back ‘crisis’ in the first place, which happened right at the end of the window. 

I highly doubt it’s a conscious decision to ‘change his style of play’. We looked awful as a team in both second halves of the two games in question and for me Kent didn’t look any worse at his job than anyone else in the second half of either.

We were under the cosh and much like vs Sunderland, completely overrun in midfield and it was crying out for the removal of Diédhiou and dropping another body into midfield. And, again much like Sunderland, Johnson lingered and waited until the game had completely turned to try and address things rather than trying to be proactive and stop the goal coming, rather than wait until we concede it to try and fix the problem  

Back to Kent, I think his signing gave us an option we didn’t have (pace and skill in wide left) and was probably swayed by the fact that CODs recovery time was something of an unknown quantity. We’re nearly into March and still no sign of him. 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, BRISTOL86 said:

I’m no tactical guru but I think one thing Kent does very well is draw defenders out of shape and create space. They double teamed him a lot yesterday which led to plenty of times where we should have had a runner in an advanced position and often there was none. Bryan made a few runs and to be fair to Kent I thought they linked up a fair bit well in the first half. 

I guess a lot comes down to the time needed to get attuned with the system and the team mates. Time being the one thing we’re running out of as the games go by. Personally I’d be quite excited to see a Ryan Kent that’s had a full pre season with this team. 

The lad is not playing simple quick early and by hanging onto it unnecessarily he is closing down the space for his team mates. The opposition are given time to control and deny space because he is not releasing the ball.

He by dribbling moves slower than a pass. Much of his dribbling in/across field is not breaking lines, is starting from the second third so frequently doesn't create space /move the opposition significantly as playing simple quick early would. 

If he released the ball earlier and allowed players to support him to get him into the final third to then add his complexity around the box he would be more effective. I hope to see it, but wonder if a very young loanee who is developing their game was a astute short term recruitment.