What signings from the LJ/MA era have improved us?

[tinman85]

and you can't have Baker. He was here before which led to his return. 

Brownhill

Paterson

Diedhiou

Tammy

 

 

[Lrrr]

Think you can say Baker given LJ was manager for half the season he was here, LJ's influence could have helped as much as anything. O'Dowda, Pisano has potential to be in the bracket but unlucky with injury, Steele, Reid's transformation into a striker is like a new signing so credit goes to LJ for recognising that. In other words LJ/Ashton are definitely in the plus column for their signings so far when you also take into account value for money. 

[BCFCGav]

Wright and COD. Pisano more than likely. I like the little we’ve seen of Walsh too. 

Very happy with our transfers under LJ.

[JBFC II]

Baker, Wright, Brownhill, Paterosn, Diedhiou, O'Dowda, Tammy, Duric

You have to remember that the likes of Moore, Walsh, Eliasson, Engvall are all 21 or younger so will only get better

[headhunter]

Referring to the list of successes in the opinion of the original poster you have to look at it in the context of how many have been signed in total and on that basis their selection success rate is ***s poor, 1 in 5.

The Lansdown / Johnson family love in has seen LJ given more resources than any previous manager in the history of the club. The money has been squandered on quantity rather than quality.

Injuries apart, how much are Woodrow, Eliasson, Engvall, Djony costing us in wages and if they are here next season with Taylor and Djuric fit how many of them would you stake your house on getting into double figures on goals scored - its a big 0 from me.

McCoulsky and Garita are, so say, ones for the future but they couldn't be any less effectual than Engvall and Woodrow.

Oh, almost forgot Freddie Hinds - god his attitude must be bad but those snippets of action from him early season offered hope.

[Jack Dawe]

Jamie McAllister?

[Jack Dawe]

3 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Referring to the list of successes in the opinion of the original poster you have to look at it in the context of how many have been signed in total and on that basis their selection success rate is ***s poor, 1 in 5.

The Lansdown / Johnson family love in has seen LJ given more resources than any previous manager in the history of the club. The money has been squandered on quantity rather than quality.

Injuries apart, how much are Woodrow, Eliasson, Engvall, Djony costing us in wages and if they are here next season with Taylor and Djuric fit how many of them would you stake your house on getting into double figures on goals scored - its a big 0 from me.

McCoulsky and Garita are, so say, ones for the future but they couldn't be any less effectual than Engvall and Woodrow.

Oh, almost forgot Freddie Hinds - god his attitude must be bad but those snippets of action from him early season offered hope.

Cheer yourself up by reminding yourself we are 6th, and a year ago after 32 games, we were 4th bottom. That looks like - overall - progress, to me.

[tinman85]

2 hours ago, JBFC II said:

Baker, Wright, Brownhill, Paterosn, Diedhiou, O'Dowda, Tammy, Duric

You have to remember that the likes of Moore, Walsh, Eliasson, Engvall are all 21 or younger so will only get better

O'Dowda only a few games prior to injury. Baker was already with us and signed by Cotts. Yes we went back but we already had him. Djuric how can we judge that. One year on and has started 5 games? 

[ashton_fan]

9 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Referring to the list of successes in the opinion of the original poster you have to look at it in the context of how many have been signed in total and on that basis their selection success rate is ***s poor, 1 in 5.

The Lansdown / Johnson family love in has seen LJ given more resources than any previous manager in the history of the club. The money has been squandered on quantity rather than quality.

Injuries apart, how much are Woodrow, Eliasson, Engvall, Djony costing us in wages and if they are here next season with Taylor and Djuric fit how many of them would you stake your house on getting into double figures on goals scored - its a big 0 from me.

McCoulsky and Garita are, so say, ones for the future but they couldn't be any less effectual than Engvall and Woodrow.

Oh, almost forgot Freddie Hinds - god his attitude must be bad but those snippets of action from him early season offered hope.

If the money's been squandered why are we in a play-off position now considering we were a relegation team when LJ took over?

Also, LJ hasn't been given more resources than others, much of the spend has come from player sales, we're still within the FFP limits

[JBFC II]

13 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

O'Dowda only a few games prior to injury. Baker was already with us and signed by Cotts. Yes we went back but we already had him. Djuric how can we judge that. One year on and has started 5 games? 

O'dowda has obviously come on massively, now a full ROI international, don't think you can blame LJ for him getting injured. 

Baker being here before makes no difference, LJ has made him into a much better player than the one who joined us. 

Duric is the best target man the club has had in a long time, he's been unlucky with injuries but he's a very good buy for 1 mill

[headhunter]

5 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

If the money's been squandered why are we in a play-off position now considering we were a relegation team when LJ took over?

Also, LJ hasn't been given more resources than others, much of the spend has come from player sales, we're still within the FFP limits

Fielding, Flint, Bryan, Smith, Pack , Reid and Baker [on the basis that he was a tried and tested known quantity] are 7 nailed on selections week in, week out and all were here before LJ / MA.

He's signed not far short of 30 players to bring those listed up to 11. 

 

Diedhiou and Wright are successes.

January 2018 was a dreadful window in terms of building on where we had got to. 

We are in a play off position now but for how long?

[AppyDAZE]

3 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Fielding, Flint, Bryan, Smith, Pack , Reid and Baker [on the basis that he was a tried and tested known quantity] are 7 nailed on selections week in, week out and all were here before LJ / MA.

He's signed not far short of 30 players to bring those listed up to 11. 

 

Diedhiou and Wright are successes.

January 2018 was a dreadful window in terms of building on where we had got to. 

We are in a play off position now but for how long?

and all of those have improved under the current regime..   you're fuvking up your own argument

[ashton_fan]

17 minutes ago, headhunter said:

Fielding, Flint, Bryan, Smith, Pack , Reid and Baker [on the basis that he was a tried and tested known quantity] are 7 nailed on selections week in, week out and all were here before LJ / MA.

He's signed not far short of 30 players to bring those listed up to 11. 

 

Diedhiou and Wright are successes.

January 2018 was a dreadful window in terms of building on where we had got to. 

We are in a play off position now but for how long?

You have to admit though that those players have improved under LJ, look at Bobby Reid. If in that 30 you're included the under-23's we've bought to loan out and improve then I would say that's an unfair comment. Other signings (eg Djuric and Pisano) would have played more but for injury. Ryan Kent was a great January signing and it's too early to judge the other two, Everton fans were gutted when they sold us Walsh.

[Lrrr]

8 minutes ago, ashton_fan said:

You have to admit though that those players have improved under LJ, look at Bobby Reid. If in that 30 you're included the under-23's we've bought to loan out and improve then I would say that's an unfair comment. Other signings (eg Djuric and Pisano) would have played more but for injury. Ryan Kent was a great January signing and it's too early to judge the other two, Everton fans were gutted when they sold us Kelly.

Excellent, didn't realise we'd made another signing 

[JamesBCFC]

It's staggering how many people look to discredit at every opportunity.

They state 30 players signed, but include players like Hinds, McCoulsky, Bakinson and Jonny Smith etc among them to boost those numbers when the reality is we don't know if those players will be good or bad because it is so early in their development.

It also only takes 2 in every 10 of those players actually making it for us to be able to make a huge overall profit which then allows us to strengthen more.

 

I guarantee if 20% of the youth prospects Chelsea, Man City, Barcelona etc hoover up made it with them those clubs would be delighted.

[LondonBristolian]

For a start, Nathan Baker, because we obviously can have Baker because he obviously was signed by Johnson. I'm going to also mention how much Reid, Flint, Pack and Bryan have improved under LJ, even if they were here before. 

Then O'Dowda, who is a massive loss at the moment, Brownhill, Steele (quality goalkeeping back-up does matter), Diedhiou, Wright, Pisano when fit, Mags (given the equivalent was probably Derick Williams and Mags is a better player), Djuric (when fit). I'm also optimistic Walsh, Eliasson and Hinds will come good. 

Not actually a bad track record all told. 

[Bryans Left Peg]

When it comes to transfers I am as satisfied than I can ever remember.

[havanatopia]

1 hour ago, headhunter said:

Fielding, Flint, Bryan, Smith, Pack , Reid and Baker [on the basis that he was a tried and tested known quantity] are 7 nailed on selections week in, week out and all were here before LJ / MA.

He's signed not far short of 30 players to bring those listed up to 11. 

 

Diedhiou and Wright are successes.

January 2018 was a dreadful window in terms of building on where we had got to. 

We are in a play off position now but for how long?

I am not getting the Wright love in. Never rated him. He makes too many blunders for me and for that alone I think January was partly wasted because we are short on quality in defence. Bryan is a wonderful player but for me not good enough in his defensive work at left back.

There is no doubt LJ has brought on those players so brilliantly recruited by Steve Cotterill and SOD (Flint).

The scary stat though, and as you point out, is 30 players brought in for 4 positions. 

[RobintheRed Red]

2 hours ago, headhunter said:

Referring to the list of successes in the opinion of the original poster you have to look at it in the context of how many have been signed in total and on that basis their selection success rate is ***s poor, 1 in 5.

The Lansdown / Johnson family love in has seen LJ given more resources than any previous manager in the history of the club. The money has been squandered on quantity rather than quality.

Injuries apart, how much are Woodrow, Eliasson, Engvall, Djony costing us in wages and if they are here next season with Taylor and Djuric fit how many of them would you stake your house on getting into double figures on goals scored - its a big 0 from me.

McCoulsky and Garita are, so say, ones for the future but they couldn't be any less effectual than Engvall and Woodrow.

Oh, almost forgot Freddie Hinds - god his attitude must be bad but those snippets of action from him early season offered hope.

Brilliant post

[Northern Red]

Not allowing Baker to be included absolutely stinks of an agenda, and should render any further discussion irrelevant, frankly.

[Phileas Fogg]

10 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Not allowing Baker to be included absolutely stinks of an agenda, and should render any further discussion irrelevant, frankly.

I also enjoyed 

13 hours ago, tinman85 said:

and you can't have Baker.

The ‘you’ is another little Freudian slip showing an agenda 

[tinman85]

8 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

For a start, Nathan Baker, because we obviously can have Baker because he obviously was signed by Johnson. I'm going to also mention how much Reid, Flint, Pack and Bryan have improved under LJ, even if they were here before. 

Then O'Dowda, who is a massive loss at the moment, Brownhill, Steele (quality goalkeeping back-up does matter), Diedhiou, Wright, Pisano when fit, Mags (given the equivalent was probably Derick Williams and Mags is a better player), Djuric (when fit). I'm also optimistic Walsh, Eliasson and Hinds will come good. 

Not actually a bad track record all told. 

Nathan Baker was signed by Cotterill. He already had a relationship with the club. We went back in for him but first engagement and quality of addition was not from the LJ/MA era

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Nathan Baker was signed by Cotterill. He already had a relationship with the club. We went back in for him but first engagement and quality of addition was not from the LJ/MA era

You need to stop the ‘Nathan Baker doesn’t count’ thing - it’s such a bizarre argument.

[ZiderEyed]

4 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

You need to stop the ‘Nathan Baker doesn’t count’ thing - it’s such a bizarre argument.

It is and all. Total bollocks. Just because he was at the club before doesn't mean that was the reason they were after him.

He was signed outright by Johnson, whether or not that fits some posters agenda or not doesn't matter.

[Cidre Monita]

11 hours ago, headhunter said:

Fielding, Flint, Bryan, Smith, Pack , Reid and Baker [on the basis that he was a tried and tested known quantity] are 7 nailed on selections week in, week out and all were here before LJ / MA.

He's signed not far short of 30 players to bring those listed up to 11. 

 

Diedhiou and Wright are successes.

January 2018 was a dreadful window in terms of building on where we had got to. 

We are in a play off position now but for how long?

No club has a perfect transfer success, and we have had some notable successes. However, the numbers of players signed perm or on loan (30 plus) and their relative impact has been far too low a percentage. The core of the current side is still the L1 title winning side. The players most touted as being attractive to other clubs, the same. The club need to  improve the scouting and player identification process to get more players  troubling the first team. LJ will need much better material if he is going to build a top 6 side. 

[Phileas Fogg]

8 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

No club has a perfect transfer success, and we have had some notable successes. However, the numbers of players signed perm or on loan (30 plus) and their relative impact has been far too low a percentage. The core of the current side is still the L1 title winning side. The players most touted as being attractive to other clubs, the same. The club need to  improve the scouting and player identification process to get more players  troubling the first team. LJ will need much better material if he is going to build a top 6 side. 

Haven’t done the maths but how many of those 30 are purely first team players? How many are people like Hinds and Moore who are clearly here to develop?

Those ones should be excluded from this idea if we’re basing it on first team players. 

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, tinman85 said:

Nathan Baker was signed by Cotterill. He already had a relationship with the club. We went back in for him but first engagement and quality of addition was not from the LJ/MA era

Nathan Baker was signed by Lee Johnson and Mark Ashton. He had previously been on loan under Cotterill but was not our player. Both the previous sentences are simple statements of facts. He is a Lee Johnson signing. The only possible way you can argue against that is by inventing bizarre and inaccurate rules which govern whether or not someone was signed by a particular manager in order to prove an imaginary and nonsensical point. I'm interested in facts and not your personal agenda.

[Guest]

Even Matt Taylor is a success for just one single pass that he has made.

The question from the OP is ridiculously loaded and it stinks of "Football Manager" naivety. Transfers are only one part of the job, and if you are good at your job - coaching - they should only be relied upon fleetingly.

The real question is how has LJ coached us and complimented that in the transfer market with MA. The truth then is you can say he's coached Pack, Reid, Flint, Bryan and Smith in to exceptional players at this level of significant value. He has worked with and developed Bailey Wright into a very strong centre back who stands up good in tests against Flint and Baker. He has taken O'Dowda from League 2 in to a full ROI international in a short frame of time. I'm not going to go on because I'm boring myself.

When you have a coach delivering all of that from what was at his disposal and bringing in players to improve (Wright, O'Dowda, the 2nd generation behind) his performance is sensational, however you want to dress it up or whichever point of view you try to come at it from.

[LondonBristolian]

10 minutes ago, Psychopomp said:

No club has a perfect transfer success, and we have had some notable successes. However, the numbers of players signed perm or on loan (30 plus) and their relative impact has been far too low a percentage. The core of the current side is still the L1 title winning side. The players most touted as being attractive to other clubs, the same. The club need to  improve the scouting and player identification process to get more players  troubling the first team. LJ will need much better material if he is going to build a top 6 side. 

I'm not sure I agree. For a start - for now at least - we have a top 6 side. Granted, that might not last until the end of the season. 

Beyond that, I think you're potentially seeing a strength as a weakness. It is too early to judge but what has been impressive about Fielding, Bryan, Flint and Pack (also to an extent Smith but he was impressive from the off) is the way they have grown into the team over time. Pack was not even getting into the starting XI in the League One at the beginning of our title-winning season. Most of us wrote Flint and Fielding off as not good enough at one point or another, especially under SOD, and Joe Bryan has had difficult spells to say the least. But all of them over time have grown into being players as they've grown a little older, adjusted to the culture and become central to the club.

On the other hand, Tomlin quickly established himself as our key player and the lustre quickly faded. Going back further, Marvin Elliott looked amazing in his first season and then never hit the heights.

As far as I can tell, the club's strategy - which I think actually started under SOD, although the fruits were not there at the time - is to sign players who could grow into the club over time. Brownhill and O'Dowda have really shown this season they can do that. Of LJ's permanet signings, I think you can realistically categorise them as follows:

Showing clear signs of being a success:

Brownhill, O'Dowda, Steele, Diedhiou, Wright, Paterson, Baker

Potential to be a success:

Walsh, Eliasson, Moore, Hinds

Limited success:

Taylor, Djuric, Pisano

Either sold or not yet been a success and time running out:

Tomlin, Hegeler (great player, wrong system), Engvall, O'Neill

Cheap punt that did not work but nothing lost: Lucic, De Girolamo

 

I don't think that is a terrible record by any means.

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, 29AR said:

Even Matt Taylor is a success for just one single pass that he has made.

The question from the OP is ridiculously loaded and it stinks of "Football Manager" naivety. Transfers are only one part of the job, and if you are good at your job - coaching - they should only be relied upon fleetingly.

The real question is how has LJ coached us and complimented that in the transfer market with MA. The truth then is you can say he's coached Pack, Reid, Flint, Bryan and Smith in to exceptional players at this level of significant value. He has worked with and developed Bailey Wright into a very strong centre back who stands up good in tests against Flint and Baker. He has taken O'Dowda from League 2 in to a full ROI international in a short frame of time. I'm not going to go on because I'm boring myself.

When you have a coach delivering all of that from what was at his disposal and bringing in players to improve (Wright, O'Dowda, the 2nd generation behind) his performance is sensational, however you want to dress it up or whichever point of view you try to come at it from.

He's also given debuts to 8 academy players while he's been here, lest we forget.