Perspective, please!

[Andy Horsman]

We're on a bad run, although nothing like last season's debacle. With 14 games to go we're 6th with players returning to fitness. I'm as disappointed as anyone else, but a draw at Leeds is not an entirely bad result, and one most of us would have gladly taken at 16.30. We as a club need to regroup. The players need to ignore all the hype that  the cup run and early season momentum generated, the staff need to remain calm and focussed on the 'bigger picture' and as supporters can do our bit too by continuing to get behind the lads as we have done so well this season. Threads calling for LJ to go are frankly either insane or agents of DC playing silly buggers. Some may not agree, but perhaps the return of the likes of Gary O'Neil, once he's match fit, from the 60th minute onwards may just help the team on the pitch manage to see the game out. Korey Smith was outstanding first half but he took a knock and ran himself into the ground and having GON back may help in that area too. I'm using KS as an illustration not attributing individual responsibility, far from it!! He has been a rock this season. And we also have the return of Djuric, COD, Hegeler, Pisano and Matty Taylor to add to the mix, all with something to prove. At the start of the season I optimistically predicted we'd finish 10th and will be  a little bit dejected if we did now, but the progression on from the last two seasons is immense.

14 Games to go, bring it on!!!!! At least we're not losing in injury time at AFC Wimbledon.............

 

[steveybadger]

Good man. Some of the overreactions on here tonight astonishing.

I'd also add that as we've just dropped points to teams out of form, given Fulham and Cardiff are in top form we'll probably hammer both?!

[AppyDAZE]

2 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

Good man. Some of the overreactions on here tonight astonishing.

I'd also add that as we've just dropped points to teams out of form, given Fulham and Cardiff are in top form we'll probably hammer both?!

Probably a bit unlikely, but being not expected might suit us a bit more for once.  Baker coming back is good, although Marlon not being available is a real bitch.

Anyways, two massive games coming up...  this is why we go to football after all

COYR

[slartibartfast]

5 minutes ago, steveybadger said:

. Some of the overreactions on here tonight astonishing.

 

And some threads opened up by newbies 

[Lrrr]

I think the perspective needs to be taken on the fact we're 6th despite the number of long term injuries we've had to key players. People can say what they want about not strengthening in January but if Fammy had been fit all season how many do people think he'd have? I'd guess at least as many Bobby has got if not more. O'Dowda had just reached peak levels, if we'd had him the last couple of months I think we'd have done better. If Pisano had been fit the whole season, if we could have had Djuric off the bench... all ifs and buts yes, but emphasises just how much we've been missing for a long time and how well we've done to stay in the play offs. 

[cidered abroad]

Plenty of "ifs" about injured players but what about this "If". 

Johnson and his coaches had by now managed to coach the team on how to manage the retention of a lead with twenty minutes to go. 

They clearly haven't bought the right coaching manual to get the answer. Either that or GJ misunderstood the question at family Sunday lunch! 

[Lrrr]

Its happened the last two games, but how much has it happened this season vs points we've picked up from late goals? It's probably not too far off each way. 

[Gert Mare]

3 hours ago, Andy Horsman said:

We're on a bad run, although nothing like last season's debacle. With 14 games to go we're 6th with players returning to fitness. I'm as disappointed as anyone else, but a draw at Leeds is not an entirely bad result, and one most of us would have gladly taken at 16.30. We as a club need to regroup. The players need to ignore all the hype that  the cup run and early season momentum generated, the staff need to remain calm and focussed on the 'bigger picture' and as supporters can do our bit too by continuing to get behind the lads as we have done so well this season. Threads calling for LJ to go are frankly either insane or agents of DC playing silly buggers. Some may not agree, but perhaps the return of the likes of Gary O'Neil, once he's match fit, from the 60th minute onwards may just help the team on the pitch manage to see the game out. Korey Smith was outstanding first half but he took a knock and ran himself into the ground and having GON back may help in that area too. I'm using KS as an illustration not attributing individual responsibility, far from it!! He has been a rock this season. And we also have the return of Djuric, COD, Hegeler, Pisano and Matty Taylor to add to the mix, all with something to prove. At the start of the season I optimistically predicted we'd finish 10th and will be  a little bit dejected if we did now, but the progression on from the last two seasons is immense.

14 Games to go, bring it on!!!!! At least we're not losing in injury time at AFC Wimbledon.............

 

Personally I think frustrations are valid. We would have taken a point and been happy had we came back from 2 down, but Leeds were poor and we failed to kill them off. Sunderland was humiliating.

The call for LJ's head thread was started by a WUM and probably a Saghead troll. 

These are mistakes that we were making last season though which is concerning. LJ panicking himself about when to make substitutions and tactical changes again where before Christmas he had his head up and was confident. 

[Andy Horsman]

11 hours ago, hodge said:

I think the perspective needs to be taken on the fact we're 6th despite the number of long term injuries we've had to key players. People can say what they want about not strengthening in January but if Fammy had been fit all season how many do people think he'd have? I'd guess at least as many Bobby has got if not more. O'Dowda had just reached peak levels, if we'd had him the last couple of months I think we'd have done better. If Pisano had been fit the whole season, if we could have had Djuric off the bench... all ifs and buts yes, but emphasises just how much we've been missing for a long time and how well we've done to stay in the play offs. 

I agree. If we'd signed even a fraction of the players linked in January where would they have fitted in once the injured players were fit? We'd have ended up with a massive wage bill, disgruntled players in an unwieldy squad and no guarantee that we'd be any better off. Forest threw the chequebook at the January market and so far it hasn't helped one iota, with 1 point from 9 in February. It is what it is and I still think the time for evaluation and any potential 'recriminations' will be in May, And I'm far from  a 'Happy Clapper'.

[Mr Popodopolous]

11 hours ago, hodge said:

I think the perspective needs to be taken on the fact we're 6th despite the number of long term injuries we've had to key players. People can say what they want about not strengthening in January but if Fammy had been fit all season how many do people think he'd have? I'd guess at least as many Bobby has got if not more. O'Dowda had just reached peak levels, if we'd had him the last couple of months I think we'd have done better. If Pisano had been fit the whole season, if we could have had Djuric off the bench... all ifs and buts yes, but emphasises just how much we've been missing for a long time and how well we've done to stay in the play offs. 

This, 100% this.

About the injured players- take the medium to long term injuries and put them in Wolves, Villa and you'd see them with a lot more problems. Especially Wolves.

Truthfully, I don't recall us having such an injury crisis like this for years. Not with medium-long term. Plus we've been a bit unlucky with refs too- FA making an example of Wright a prime example.

[Big C]

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Yes the collapse in the last two games have been extremely disappointing to say the least but its just two games. SKY showed a stat yesterday that we've not lost a game when we've been leading at half time for almost a year. We've won a lot of games this year by the solitary goal (wasn't there a run of five on a trot in December). We are still doing a lot of things right (even in the last two games), we are still 6th in the league and we are still having an excellent season

[Ivorguy]

7 minutes ago, Big C said:

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Yes the collapse in the last two games have been extremely disappointing to say the least but its just two games. SKY showed a stat yesterday that we've not lost a game when we've been leading at half time for almost a year. We've won a lot of games this year by the solitary goal (wasn't there a run of five on a trot in December). We are still doing a lot of things right (even in the last two games), we are still 6th in the league and we are still having an excellent season

It is the wild swings between getting results and failing to get results that is worrying.  Last season all over again, but in reverse.  The one common factor is The Head Coach who suffered a third season like this before he joined us.

I know he is a young coach but he also appears to be a slow learner.

Let's hope the recent appalling run will galvanise him.  I don't mind where we finish but I do mind these wild swings, because we certainly don't want a third season next year where we go through such a dreadful patch

[Jerseybean]

We are Bristol City. We have never done anything the easy way. We generally tend to play better against the better teams and sometimes play less well against those who are struggling.

We can certainly point to a particularly long list of injuries this season, which has added to the challenge.

Its all still to play for. Pretty much every team has a poor run during a season and some disappointing displays/results. We could turn our form around at anytime and go on a great run from here in.

Always believe.

[Big C]

11 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

It is the wild swings between getting results and failing to get results that is worrying.  Last season all over again, but in reverse.  The one common factor is The Head Coach who suffered a third season like this before he joined us.

I know he is a young coach but he also appears to be a slow learner.

Let's hope the recent appalling run will galvanise him.  I don't mind where we finish but I do mind these wild swings, because we certainly don't want a third season next year where we go through such a dreadful patch

What appalling run? Let's look at the games, Wolves and Villa were always going be tough, Norwich isn't a given either, Derby away was a good point, the QPR win with 10 men was a good result, Bolton away and Sunderland at home yes disappointing and I take a point at Leeds any day of the week.

[mozo]

If we beat Fulham, we're back up to 5th. The fans MUST contribute to that happening by making some noise and not groaning at every single mis-placed pass!

[Bar BS3]

12 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Plenty of "ifs" about injured players but what about this "If". 

Johnson and his coaches had by now managed to coach the team on how to manage the retention of a lead with twenty minutes to go. 

They clearly haven't bought the right coaching manual to get the answer. Either that or GJ misunderstood the question at family Sunday lunch! 

It’s 2 games FFS! 

Sunderland was a collapse, pure & simple, however yesterday was a Leeds team battling their way back in to a game, lifted by excellent 2nd half support. It’s just one of those games. Unfortunately, off the back of the Sunderland calamity (albeit very unlucky in the manner of goals) it appears to be more of an issue (to some) than it actually is. 

It’s largely been LJ & co’s tactics & game management that have got us into & kept us top 6 for so long. 

[mozo]

I love that nowadays we get upset at drawing with Sunderland and Leeds!

[Bar BS3]

2 minutes ago, Big C said:

What appalling run? Let's look at the games, Wolves and Villa were always going be tough, Norwich isn't a given either, Derby away was a good point, the QPR win with 10 men was a good result, Bolton away and Sunderland at home yes disappointing and I take a point at Leeds any day of the week.

I think some mean the shockingly unacceptable run of 1 defeat in our last 5 championship matches..! 

Some people on here need a serious word with themselves!

It makes periods of over achievement almost unwanted, when eventual & inevitable levelling our happens and people think it’s all doom & gloom! 

Sunderland was a poor point. Leeds was a decent point. 

Time for the fans to improve massively on the last few home games support, which has been dire. We need to realise where we were last season, see how far we’ve come and embrace that any kind of top 6 finish/challenge is a great scrivener this season  

 

[Jerseybean]

12 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think some mean the shockingly unacceptable run of 1 defeat in our last 5 championship matches..! 

Some people on here need a serious word with themselves!

It makes periods of over achievement almost unwanted, when eventual & inevitable levelling our happens and people think it’s all doom & gloom! 

Sunderland was a poor point. Leeds was a decent point. 

Time for the fans to improve massively on the last few home games support, which has been dire. We need to realise where we were last season, see how far we’ve come and embrace that any kind of top 6 finish/challenge is a great scrivener this season  

 

I agree. The Fulham game is a great opportunity for the fans to play a massive part.

[RedLionLad]

7 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

I agree. The Fulham game is a great opportunity for the fans to play a massive part.

I dread to think what this place will be like if we get beat.......after going a goal up

[BCFCinNW6]

9 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

I agree. The Fulham game is a great opportunity for the fans to play a massive part.

Aren't we one of Fulham's bogey teams? As mentioned before on this thread we always seem to do better against stronger opposition - lets hope this is the case Wednesday night. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

13 hours ago, AppyDAZE said:

Probably a bit unlikely, but being not expected might suit us a bit more for once.  Baker coming back is good, although Marlon not being available is a real bitch.

Anyways, two massive games coming up...  this is why we go to football after all

COYR

Another thing in our favour is big game experience. There's no league games (excluding playoffs) that will be more potentially overawing than the cup games. This squad knows it can perform in these games and the two coming up are huge.

 

[ChippenhamRed]

There's a curious pyschology to a score draw like yesterday's.  At the end of the day, we've played away from home to a half-decent team and scored as many goals as them.  Yes, we scored our goals first, but that meant that we could concede two and still take something away from the game.  We give the players far less credit for the good play that brought about the two goal lead, and instead focus almost entirely on the fact that we later conceded two goals.

People will say "Ah, but you should never let a two goal lead slip" - but why shouldn't we?  Do the opposition stop attempting to score a goal?  Do they suddenly cease to have players with skill capable of causing a defence problems?  Is it really the case that every goal we concede is due to our own failings, or should we perhaps acknowledge the ability of an opposition to create chances in the same way we were able to for our goals?

Others will say we should have been able to "shut up shop" and protected what we had.  Easy to say, harder to do.  On another day, that would be described as "sitting back and inviting pressure" - a more negative way of describing much the same thing.

When we won away at Hull from 2-down, no one was saying how poor it was the Hull let their lead slip.  The rhetoric was all about how well we'd done to fight our way back into the game.  Does it not cut both ways?

It's a cliche to say there are no easy games in the Championship but it's largely true.  And away at Leeds is certainly not one of the easier games.  I was as frustrated as anyone that we weren't able to hold on for the win, and of course we made mistakes that may have changed the outcome if they'd not occured.  But would it really kill us to recognise that there are two teams playing the game?

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

There's a curious pyschology to a score draw like yesterday's.  At the end of the day, we've played away from home to a half-decent team and scored as many goals as them.  Yes, we scored our goals first, but that meant that we could concede two and still take something away from the game.  We give the players far less credit for the good play that brought about the two goal lead, and instead focus almost entirely on the fact that we later conceded two goals.

People will say "Ah, but you should never let a two goal lead slip" - but why shouldn't we?  Do the opposition stop attempting to score a goal?  Do they suddenly cease to have players with skill capable of causing a defence problems?  Is it really the case that every goal we concede is due to our own failings, or should we perhaps acknowledge the ability of an opposition to create chances in the same way we were able to for our goals?

Others will say we should have been able to "shut up shop" and protected what we had.  Easy to say, harder to do.  On another day, that would be described as "sitting back and inviting pressure" - a more negative way of describing much the same thing.

When we won away at Hull from 2-down, no one was saying how poor it was the Hull let their lead slip.  The rhetoric was all about how well we'd done to fight our way back into the game.  Does it not cut both ways?

It's a cliche to say there are no easy games in the Championship but it's largely true.  And away at Leeds is certainly not one of the easier games.  I was as frustrated as anyone that we weren't able to hold on for the win, and of course we made mistakes that may have changed the outcome if they'd not occured.  But would it really kill us to recognise that there are two teams playing the game?

Exactly - Leeds are a good side with a big budget. 

We've got a terrible record there and there's also the unpredictability of the new manager 'bounce' (depending on whether you believe that theory!)

Our best centre half is coming back in, can you really imagine us losing 5 goals from winning positions with Baker in the side? I don't think so.

 

[cidered abroad]

51 minutes ago, Ivorguy said:

It is the wild swings between getting results and failing to get results that is worrying.  Last season all over again, but in reverse.  The one common factor is The Head Coach who suffered a third season like this before he joined us.

I know he is a young coach but he also appears to be a slow learner.

Let's hope the recent appalling run will galvanise him.  I don't mind where we finish but I do mind these wild swings, because we certainly don't want a third season next year where we go through such a dreadful patch

I know I'm being very negative at the moment. I'm absolutely gutted about the last two results and in general about seven of the last eight league games.

Ivor, with respect, you are incorrect in your statement. "The recent appalling run" is better described as "The current appalling run". It is very possible that it will continue at least for three out the next four games. Fulham, Cardiff and PNE could all be lost. 6 pts out of last 24 could be 7/9 pts out of last 36. Gloomy aren't I but when you've supported a team for 68 years and seen so many charitable donations of points to other teams that are on a very bad run, it is difficult to believe in positivity.

So then the poor run continues til the end of the season? We don't have any reason to revive as we are already safe from the dreaded scrap at the bottom. Fine, one could say, as we'll still finish higher than we did last two seasons and a good cup run.

Now here is the gloomy scenario. What about next season when the poor run continues at the start?

We have to get out of this sort of "no hope run" that is occurring every season under LJ. A bad run for most teams in the top half is a couple of draws and a loss. Even Cardiff lost four games on the trot but have followed this with four wins and two draws.  They did to Leeds at Elland Road what we should have yesterday; won 4-1!

No wonder we sit there chewing our fingers instead of getting behind the team vocally. Roll on Wednesday night.  

 

 

[Lorenzos Only Goal]

17 hours ago, Andy Horsman said:

We're on a bad run, although nothing like last season's debacle. With 14 games to go we're 6th with players returning to fitness. I'm as disappointed as anyone else, but a draw at Leeds is not an entirely bad result, and one most of us would have gladly taken at 16.30. We as a club need to regroup. The players need to ignore all the hype that  the cup run and early season momentum generated, the staff need to remain calm and focussed on the 'bigger picture' and as supporters can do our bit too by continuing to get behind the lads as we have done so well this season. Threads calling for LJ to go are frankly either insane or agents of DC playing silly buggers. Some may not agree, but perhaps the return of the likes of Gary O'Neil, once he's match fit, from the 60th minute onwards may just help the team on the pitch manage to see the game out. Korey Smith was outstanding first half but he took a knock and ran himself into the ground and having GON back may help in that area too. I'm using KS as an illustration not attributing individual responsibility, far from it!! He has been a rock this season. And we also have the return of Djuric, COD, Hegeler, Pisano and Matty Taylor to add to the mix, all with something to prove. At the start of the season I optimistically predicted we'd finish 10th and will be  a little bit dejected if we did now, but the progression on from the last two seasons is immense.

14 Games to go, bring it on!!!!! At least we're not losing in injury time at AFC Wimbledon.............

 

I think you're bang on, I was always thinking Feb would be a bit crap for us, to early for any Jan signings to make an impact and suffering a serious hangover from injuries and December.  Baker getting suspended has hurt us, but I think March will prove a much more fruitful month for us.

[Bar BS3]

32 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

There's a curious pyschology to a score draw like yesterday's.  At the end of the day, we've played away from home to a half-decent team and scored as many goals as them.  Yes, we scored our goals first, but that meant that we could concede two and still take something away from the game.  We give the players far less credit for the good play that brought about the two goal lead, and instead focus almost entirely on the fact that we later conceded two goals.

People will say "Ah, but you should never let a two goal lead slip" - but why shouldn't we?  Do the opposition stop attempting to score a goal?  Do they suddenly cease to have players with skill capable of causing a defence problems?  Is it really the case that every goal we concede is due to our own failings, or should we perhaps acknowledge the ability of an opposition to create chances in the same way we were able to for our goals?

Others will say we should have been able to "shut up shop" and protected what we had.  Easy to say, harder to do.  On another day, that would be described as "sitting back and inviting pressure" - a more negative way of describing much the same thing.

When we won away at Hull from 2-down, no one was saying how poor it was the Hull let their lead slip.  The rhetoric was all about how well we'd done to fight our way back into the game.  Does it not cut both ways?

It's a cliche to say there are no easy games in the Championship but it's largely true.  And away at Leeds is certainly not one of the easier games.  I was as frustrated as anyone that we weren't able to hold on for the win, and of course we made mistakes that may have changed the outcome if they'd not occured.  But would it really kill us to recognise that there are two teams playing the game?

Exactly this!

Around the same time last season, we played Leeds away. We started ok, without getting in front and then inevitably fell 2 goals behind, before grabbing a scrappy consolation with the last kick of the game. 

Shows how far we’ve come that we are now frustrated with “only” drawing away at Leeds. 

 

[Leveller]

18 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I know I'm being very negative at the moment. I'm absolutely gutted about the last two results and in general about seven of the last eight league games.

Ivor, with respect, you are incorrect in your statement. "The recent appalling run" is better described as "The current appalling run". It is very possible that it will continue at least for three out the next four games. Fulham, Cardiff and PNE could all be lost. 6 pts out of last 24 could be 7/9 pts out of last 36. Gloomy aren't I but when you've supported a team for 68 years and seen so many charitable donations of points to other teams that are on a very bad run, it is difficult to believe in positivity.

So then the poor run continues til the end of the season? We don't have any reason to revive as we are already safe from the dreaded scrap at the bottom. Fine, one could say, as we'll still finish higher than we did last two seasons and a good cup run.

Now here is the gloomy scenario. What about next season when the poor run continues at the start?

We have to get out of this sort of "no hope run" that is occurring every season under LJ. A bad run for most teams in the top half is a couple of draws and a loss. Even Cardiff lost four games on the trot but have followed this with four wins and two draws.  They did to Leeds at Elland Road what we should have yesterday; won 4-1!

No wonder we sit there chewing our fingers instead of getting behind the team vocally. Roll on Wednesday night.  

 

 

You are being exceedingly negative and in danger of becoming another Ivorguy.

This is not an appalling run by any sensible definition. It is a mildly disappointing run after a surprising period of over achievement. We have lost one game in five, and in recent times only the Villa result can in any way be described as appalling. Losing leads isn’t good, but as has already been pointed out, that ignores in each match the good 60 minutes we had first. 

Look at the bigger picture and consider how you thought we’d do back at the beginning of August. Stop judging the situation by reference to the thought that we “ought” to be winning all our games and getting automatic promotion. Even ending up in the top third is always going to involve some disappointing results. Even Wolves have had some disappointing results.  Cardiff had a recent bad run and are now doing well again.

Calm down.

[mozo]

Let's not forget that the cross for Leeds first goal was world class! 

[BristolIsRed]

1 hour ago, Leveller said:

You are being exceedingly negative and in danger of becoming another Ivorguy.

This is not an appalling run by any sensible definition. It is a mildly disappointing run after a surprising period of over achievement. We have lost one game in five, and in recent times only the Villa result can in any way be described as appalling. Losing leads isn’t good, but as has already been pointed out, that ignores in each match the good 60 minutes we had first. 

Look at the bigger picture and consider how you thought we’d do back at the beginning of August. Stop judging the situation by reference to the thought that we “ought” to be winning all our games and getting automatic promotion. Even ending up in the top third is always going to involve some disappointing results. Even Wolves have had some disappointing results.  Cardiff had a recent bad run and are now doing well again.

Calm down.

Agree - everyone needs to calm down.