Today’s tactics - absolutely shite.

[RedRock]

2 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

You'll struggle to find anyone who doesn't mind losing on here. 

Yes, I'm in a good mood today. My nipper scored the winning goal in a crunch match in his regional powerchair football match. 

His team will be champions this year. 

Get in. 

Can he play full-back?

[AppyDAZE]

I'll translate

Suck me off

[The Coach]

1 minute ago, Vil1 said:

Suk i off

Go on @BigTone

[Vil1]

Ye hes a french striker worth 10 mil iva sukmeoff

[CotswoldRed]

3 minutes ago, Vil1 said:

10hrs **** me wat do u do walk with a tray of scones and t

No. I look after my disabled son, which normally means arriving very early for a number of reasons. Dealing with toileting etc. 

Its 10 hours from leaving the house to arriving home. Not all travelling of course. 

[Vil1]

Plays along side ivbeen sukdoff

[CotswoldRed]

5 minutes ago, Moor2Sea said:

Can he play full-back?

He can certainly take out Warnock. 

 

[Vil1]

No offence cotswold red fair play to u

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, Vil1 said:

No offence cotswold red fair play to u

My advice. Don't throw expletives at someone and follow up with "no offence". 

On to the next game. 

[Vil1]

My advice is dont assume

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

8 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Lee Johnson doesn't have the nous/experience to get us out of this division. Not exactly helped by an owner who doesn't want to dip his hand in his pocket.

Hahahahahaha!   

[cidered abroad]

6 hours ago, Red Moseley said:

Been watching City since about 1963 ( the days of Malcolm Graham et al), and have read OTIB posts but never joined until now. Have never been a fan of LJ, and often cannot see the logic in his selections/subs. Why on earth, in a game of today's importance if we want to push for play off place or better, would you drop our top scorer into midfield (where he has not been a resounding success in past seasons), and replace him with a striker untested in the Championship, who has not scored all season and against Sunderland turned one of the worst 45 minutes I have seen from a City player.

Couldn't agree more. I cannot believe some of the changes and tinkering that LJ does. He's naive and making so many mistakes yet doesn't seem to learn from them. 

[AshtonGreat]

50 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Hahahahahaha!   

Why's that funny? 

[BigTone]

10 hours ago, Red_Wizard said:

Go on @BigTone

I'll give that a miss ta muchly

[spudski]

I think these words tell a story by LJ...

I picked a team that could physically stand up to individual duels but the area the team were disappointing in today was that we just kicked it up field on too many occasions. The game plan was never any different to how we normally play but we lost the belief in our style, which has done us so well.

“The key for me is to believe in my system over the next 12 games. I said to the players, 'it's okay if you can’t play it because we will sort it out at the end of the season and we can move on'. I won’t settle for mediocrity, never have I settled for that and I think that was on show from both teams.

That last sentence is quiet a worry, as to me it sounds like some of the players are reverting to hoof ball as they don't have faith in their own ability to play the football they are being asked.

They've  all played it before, and well...so what has changed in their mind set?

Also...LJ seems to be saying, 'Play my way, and if you make mistakes, so be it, we have next season to sort it out'....so still a plan in the making and this season not being the finished article.

The next comments speak a 1000 words...

"We should play without fear now. We played with fear when on the ball yesterday so that’s what I want to take away.

"I want to say it’s my fault. If the players play the way I want them to and we don’t win then that’s my fault, but don’t abandon the way I want you to play and lose because that’s the worst thing you can do. It means you won’t be at this football club as of next season and I’ll bring in the guys that will play the system.

[Honiton Tony]

18 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

We sold out to-day, but in a way I don't condemn him for trying something different, I don't agree with him but I won't blame him. It's a learning curve he is on, and he will take a massive lesson learnt from this,. You don't learn as much from a win as you do a loss.  

Thing is Warnock only knows how to play one way, at least we can play the game as to how it was meant to be, just that we shelved that to-day.

Another lesson learned ...... Great !

[Son of Fred]

18 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

LJ is still firmly in massive credit, obviously, but what in God’s name were the tactics this afternoon?

Awful, awful hoofball. 

You make your name playing slick one touch and then you serve up that? 

Why oh why?

I believe Lee sometimes,if that's possible,thinks too much..was he trying to double bluff Warnock???

[Jack Dawe]

17 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think these words tell a story by LJ...

I picked a team that could physically stand up to individual duels but the area the team were disappointing in today was that we just kicked it up field on too many occasions. The game plan was never any different to how we normally play but we lost the belief in our style, which has done us so well.

“The key for me is to believe in my system over the next 12 games. I said to the players, 'it's okay if you can’t play it because we will sort it out at the end of the season and we can move on'. I won’t settle for mediocrity, never have I settled for that and I think that was on show from both teams.

That last sentence is quiet a worry, as to me it sounds like some of the players are reverting to hoof ball as they don't have faith in their own ability to play the football they are being asked.

They've  all played it before, and well...so what has changed in their mind set?

Also...LJ seems to be saying, 'Play my way, and if you make mistakes, so be it, we have next season to sort it out'....so still a plan in the making and this season not being the finished article.

I wouldn't think they reverted to this yesterday deliberately, spud, consciously going against Johnson's wishes. Don't think so. They played very differently just a few days before v Fulham.

I think it was a response to the environment, if you like, they found themselves in yesterday. It's not straightforward playing how we want to play v Warnock teams, and perhaps we are just not quite good enough yet to go anywhere in this league and pass the ball on the deck the way Johnson wants us to.

The number of games without a win since Boxing Day will likely be impacting on their "mind set" too and adding to the difficulty and challenge of wanting the ball in tight areas etc, and playing the football we were when we were on a roll.

Johnson's task appears to be to work on their "mind sets" and eventually move on the ones that are not workable, and then to find new ones. Perhaps with Diony he has given himself too much to do with that individual "mind set"?

 

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

I wouldn't think they reverted to this yesterday deliberately, spud, consciously going against Johnson's wishes. Don't think so. They played very differently just a few days before v Fulham.

I think it was a response to the environment, if you like, they found themselves in yesterday. It's not straightforward playing how we want to play v Warnock teams, and perhaps we are just not quite good enough yet to go anywhere in this league and pass the ball on the deck the way Johnson wants us to.

The number of games without a win since Boxing Day will likely be impacting on their "mind set" too and adding to the difficulty and challenge of wanting the ball in tight areas etc, and playing the football we were when we were on a roll.

Johnson's task appears to be to work on their "mind sets" and eventually move on the ones that are not workable, and then to find new ones. Perhaps with Diony he has given himself too much to do with that individual "mind set"?

 

I agree...it's not just been against Cardiff, but in recent games as well.

Personally I think the introduction of Kent, Diony and coming back from injury Famara, has unsettled us a little. It has effected the trust some players have in playing with them, as they are more likely to make mistakes and get you in trouble. Hence playing more direct and getting the ball away from you.

[Gert Mare]

At the end of the day, some of our players aren't quite good enough. They have the odd game where they do ok, but generally they can't deliver quality final balls, they struggle with the short passing game, their positioning is out, they are not strong enough in the tackle, they get booked needlessly. 

The reality is that we have a few liabilities and this league is relentless and unforgiving.

We also lack the quality in depth which has been worsened by injuries.

We may or may not make the playoffs this season, but a lot of it is down to mistakes and lack of real quality, not necessarily the quality of the opposition.

[tinman85]

1 minute ago, Cheesleysmate said:

At the end of the day, some of our players aren't quite good enough. They have the odd game where they do ok, but generally they can't deliver quality final balls, they struggle with the short passing game, their positioning is out, they are not strong enough in the tackle, they get booked needlessly. 

The reality is that we have a few liabilities and this league is relentless and unforgiving.

We also lack the quality in depth which has been worsened by injuries.

We may or may not make the playoffs this season, but a lot of it is down to mistakes and lack of real quality, not necessarily the quality of the opposition.

Let's be honest if we get in the play offs do we think this team has the bottle to do the job? Villa or Derby away. Even a final v Fulham. We would choke 

[ZiderEyed]

5 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

At the end of the day, some of our players aren't quite good enough. They have the odd game where they do ok, but generally they can't deliver quality final balls, they struggle with the short passing game, their positioning is out, they are not strong enough in the tackle, they get booked needlessly. 

The reality is that we have a few liabilities and this league is relentless and unforgiving.

We also lack the quality in depth which has been worsened by injuries.

We may or may not make the playoffs this season, but a lot of it is down to mistakes and lack of real quality, not necessarily the quality of the opposition.

Some people have forgotten that the spine of this squad was way down there in League 1, and are now fighting to get in to the Premier League, it's an utterly remarkable achievement, but as it stands we just can't compete with clubs like Derby who are willing to shell out tens of millions a year.

If our players were perfect or didnt make these mistakes then they wouldn't be here.

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Let's be honest if we get in the play offs do we think this team has the bottle to do the job? Villa or Derby away. Even a final v Fulham. We would choke 

You're full of joy this morning tinman.

[tinman85]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You're full of joy this morning tinman.

Not much to feel positive about! 

[Olé]

21 minutes ago, spudski said:

They've  all played it before, and well...so what has changed in their mind set?

In the context of the season I don't think LJ has much to answer for, but on this one, he's being a little bit disingenuous.

Perhaps players didn't play the way he expected them to, but I'm not sure it's fair to identify the change as in their mind.

How about selecting both Diony and Diedhiou up front - two players who could not create space and retain possession.

That removed the focus for the football our players are comfortable with, because there was no one to pass the ball to.

Pass to either of them direct and it's hacked away from them. So the players hoofed over the top, hoping for mistakes.

 

The feature of our passing football has been the pace, movement and short exchanges, led by Bobby Reid dropping in.

To get away from big defenders you need the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't routine - i.e. supreme control with the ball.

Our best exponent of that was stuck in midfield where he and Korey both looked competent but were largely bypassed.

By launching over midfield Cardiff is skilled at making your lot drop back and opening up big gaps between our players.

Yesterday we rarely had a chance to play a pass under 15 yards as that was the minimum distance up to our front two.

 

Bobby is many things but we don't often ask him to spray 30 yard balls - our best player for that is Pack and he was out.

And Brownhill really got lost in the game yesterday as there was too much ground to cover to be useful in both phases.

So the mindset / not my instructions thing is a surprising diversion from Lee when his selection gamble caused this all.

If all Famara has to do is knock the ball down to Reid and move into space for a quick return, we're far more dangerous.

Instead we're left with Diedhiou totally exposed up front to do it all (Diony lacking confidence or speed* to do any of it).

 

*I'm hoping Diony is going through his Pisano "it's all so incredibly fast" evolution to the Championship, but I'm not even seeing the basic attributes yet.

[Olé]

13 minutes ago, tinman85 said:

Let's be honest if we get in the play offs do we think this team has the bottle to do the job? Villa or Derby away. Even a final v Fulham. We would choke 

Yeah, if only we had some recent knock-out games against high calibre opposition in front of big crowds that could tell us how much bottle our players have for the big occasion?

[ChippenhamRed]

3 minutes ago, Olé said:

In the context of the season I don't think LJ has much to answer for, but on this one, he's being a little bit disingenuous.

Perhaps players didn't play the way he expected them to, but I'm not sure it's fair to identify the change as in their mind.

How about selecting both Diony and Diedhiou up front - two players who could not create space and retain possession.

That removed the focus for the football our players are comfortable with, because there was no one to pass the ball to.

Pass to either of them direct and it's hacked away from them. So the players hoofed over the top, hoping for mistakes.

 

The feature of our passing football has been the pace, movement and short exchanges, led by Bobby Reid dropping in.

To get away from big defenders you need the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't routine - i.e. supreme control with the ball.

Our best exponent of that was stuck in midfield where he and Korey both looked competent but were largely bypassed.

By launching over midfield Cardiff is skilled at making your lot drop back and opening up big gaps between our players.

Yesterday we rarely had a chance to play a pass under 15 yards as that was the minimum distance up to our front two.

 

Bobby is many things but we don't often ask him to spray 30 yard balls - our best player for that is Pack and he was out.

And Brownhill really got lost in the game yesterday as there was too much ground to cover to be useful in both phases.

So the mindset / not my instructions thing is a surprising diversion from Lee when his selection gamble caused this all.

If all Famara has to do is knock the ball down to Reid and move into space for a quick return, we're far more dangerous.

Instead we're left with Diedhiou totally exposed up front to do it all (Diony lacking confidence or speed* to do any of it).

 

*I'm hoping Diony is going through his Pisano "it's all so incredibly fast" evolution to the Championship, but I'm not even seeing the basic attributes yet.

Your ability to dissect the game accurately and explain it with eloquence is second to none Ole. This is spot on, it’s how I saw it, I just couldn’t have described it as accurately.

The only thing I would say is that there is perhaps a little too much emphasis (generally, not just yourself) on what we didn’t do - as if it was all our choice. Cardiff did a very good job of shutting our game down and I’m not convinced that was solely due to our own failings. Warnock is a master at getting oppositions teams to fall into his trap, and there’s a skill in that.

[Cowshed]

40 minutes ago, spudski said:

I agree...it's not just been against Cardiff, but in recent games as well.

Personally I think the introduction of Kent, Diony and coming back from injury Famara, has unsettled us a little. It has effected the trust some players have in playing with them, as they are more likely to make mistakes and get you in trouble. Hence playing more direct and getting the ball away from you.

Add a different way of pressing and playing through the thirds its beyond a little. This is a team playing poorly (generally) in a different way. Its not a little shift. 

In relation to mind set ... Mind set comes from trusting , knowing , practicing , honing what you do. Do players trust the changes and the practice put behind it?

[spudski]

8 minutes ago, Olé said:

In the context of the season I don't think LJ has much to answer for, but on this one, he's being a little bit disingenuous.

Perhaps players didn't play the way he expected them to, but I'm not sure it's fair to identify the change as in their mind.

How about selecting both Diony and Diedhiou up front - two players who could not create space and retain possession.

That removed the focus for the football our players are comfortable with, because there was no one to pass the ball to.

Pass to either of them direct and it's hacked away from them. So the players hoofed over the top, hoping for mistakes.

 

The feature of our passing football has been the pace, movement and short exchanges, led by Bobby Reid dropping in.

To get away from big defenders you need the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't routine - i.e. supreme control with the ball.

Our best exponent of that was stuck in midfield where he and Korey both looked competent but were largely bypassed.

By launching over midfield Cardiff is skilled at making your lot drop back and opening up big gaps between our players.

Yesterday we rarely had a chance to play a pass under 15 yards as that was the minimum distance up to our front two.

 

Bobby is many things but we don't often ask him to spray 30 yard balls - our best player for that is Pack and he was out.

And Brownhill really got lost in the game yesterday as there was too much ground to cover to be useful in both phases.

So the mindset / not my instructions thing is a surprising diversion from Lee when his selection gamble caused this all.

If all Famara has to do is knock the ball down to Reid and move into space for a quick return, we're far more dangerous.

Instead we're left with Diedhiou totally exposed up front to do it all (Diony lacking confidence or speed* to do any of it).

 

*I'm hoping Diony is going through his Pisano "it's all so incredibly fast" evolution to the Championship, but I'm not even seeing the basic attributes yet.

It does make you wonder what happens in training, Which I've spoke of before, based on Dionys performances on match day, would anyone pick him?

Like people have said, energy and application and effort, can't fault him, but the very basics, the very simple basics of controlling a football, have been dire imo.

As you have also pointed out...Famara has the touch of trampoline. His other benefits are there to see...but his touch!!!

Then Kent in games has just run into walls, although in fairness improved in games recently.

Personally, I still see new players bedding in, loss of form with others, injury, bans, illness, individual mistakes, personnel being played out of position etc,etc, and on some occasions as LJ has admitted being to gung ho in games....all contributing to a change in our positive dynamic.

Hopefully things will settle in the next months, and we can do just enough to steel 6th place.

Still a cracking season though considering everything.

5 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Add a different way of pressing and playing through the thirds its beyond a little. This is a team playing poorly (generally) in a different way. Its not a little shift. 

In relation to mind set ... Mind set comes from trusting , knowing , practicing , honing what you do. Do players trust the changes and the practice put behind it?

It's very similar to last season in many ways. It took a season to ingrain a system, which players who were average at it, became very good at it. Think Patto, Brownhill, Odowda, Pack, Smith, Reid etc.

Having tried to bring in a new style...tried out in Dubai, as a 'plan B', it doesn't seem to be working as well. What's apparent, is that it takes more than a few weeks to get ingrained and good at it.

Take in to account all the other negative contributions that I mentioned above, and it's just not clicking.

Personally, I think the players or the players that have been here a while would trust LJ, because he's been proven right, and they can do it.

Perhaps, as I think, they don't trust some of the new players to do it yet.

It reminds me so much of when we had Tomlin in the side...some playing one way, him playing another, and the team having to adapt on the pitch to play with him in the side.

Not trusting the system to work, with certain players on the pitch.

Everyone has to be singing off the same hymn sheet so to speak.

[Cowshed]

16 minutes ago, spudski said:

IIt's very similar to last season in many ways. It took a season to ingrain a system, which players who were average at it, became very good at it. Think Patto, Brownhill, Odowda, Pack, Smith, Reid etc.

Having tried to bring in a new style...tried out in Dubai, as a 'plan B', it doesn't seem to be working as well. What's apparent, is that it takes more than a few weeks to get ingrained and good at it.

Take in to account all the other negative contributions that I mentioned above, and it's just not clicking.

Personally, I think the players or the players that have been here a while would trust LJ, because he's been proven right, and they can do it.

Perhaps, as I think, they don't trust some of the new players to do it yet.

It reminds me so much of when we had Tomlin in the side...some playing one way, him playing another, and the team having to adapt on the pitch to play with him in the side.

Not trusting the system to work, with certain players on the pitch.

Everyone has to be singing off the same hymn sheet so to speak.

It is similar to last season because  Mr Johnson has stared tinkering again. Moving from success to failure due to over complication and change.

The team now has lumps up front instead of mobility. Tomlin was  a lump with a better touch. Fielding kicks long/sideways (off the pitch) to the lump/lumps, the team play long to the lump/lumps, set plays go to lumps, the team have to rum more because of the lumps ... Tactically the identity is now defined by what is up top. That is the Manger fault.