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Ten years on - history repeating

Kid in the Riot

By Kid in the Riot
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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

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It was with interest that I read @Michael McIndoe 's post back in January that urged City not to make the same mistakes as they did in 2008 in regard to player recruitment. I think it’s fair to say it was a widely held view amongst the fanbase that we didn’t strengthen sufficiently in that window and so it was interesting to see that view was also held by at least one member of the playing staff from that time. The particularly pertinent line from Michael’s post (link below) is as follows:

“I remember 10 years ago when Gary was sat in a very similar position and we signed a foreigner who didn't know the division and someone who didn't suit our style of play.”

I assume the players Michael is referring to are:

1)     Nick Carle (a foreigner who didn’t know the division); and

2)     Dele Adebola (someone who didn’t suit our style of play).

Skip forward 10 years and the similarities regarding our two ‘marquee’ signings in January are uncanny:

1)     Lois Diony (a foreigner who doesn’t know the division & hasn’t scored all season); and

2)     Ryan Kent (someone who IMO it is becoming clear doesn’t suit our style of play – I will allow @spudski to elaborate!)

We also signed Liam Walsh of course, however I don’t think he can be considered a ‘starter’ just yet.

@Michael McIndoe has detailed how our style of play changed once Adebola was signed in that we abandoned our quick, counter, passing game for a more direct approach that didn’t suit most of the personnel we had at the club. Since January we are seeing very similar; the style of play that got us to the top of the Championship appears to have been ditched in favour of a more frantic, direct style not helped by team selection, the re-introduction of Diedhou and the more recent introduction of Diony.

We didn’t stick to our playing principles in 2008 or strengthen sufficiently in January and it ultimately cost us promotion. I believe the same is happening again, it has already cost us a top two spot and unless we return to team selection/style of play we adopted pre-Christmas then it may very well cost us a play-off spot which is frankly there for the taking. We need to get back to basics and what we were doing in that brilliant run in Nov/Dec: Fielding; Wright, Flint, Baker, Mags; Brownhill, Pack, Smith, Bryan; Paterson; Reid.

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/191776-new-signings-needed-for-promotion/

 

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reddogkev

reddogkev

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It was with interest that I read @Michael McIndoe 's post back in January that urged City not to make the same mistakes as they did in 2008 in regard to player recruitment. I think it’s fair to say it was a widely held view amongst the fanbase that we didn’t strengthen sufficiently in that window and so it was interesting to see that view was also held by at least one member of the playing staff from that time. The particularly pertinent line from Michael’s post (link below) is as follows:

“I remember 10 years ago when Gary was sat in a very similar position and we signed a foreigner who didn't know the division and someone who didn't suit our style of play.”

I assume the players Michael is referring to are:

1)     Nick Carle (a foreigner who didn’t know the division); and

2)     Dele Adebola (someone who didn’t suit our style of play).

Skip forward 10 years and the similarities regarding our two ‘marquee’ signings in January are uncanny:

1)     Lois Diony (a foreigner who doesn’t know the division & hasn’t scored all season); and

2)     Ryan Kent (someone who IMO it is becoming clear doesn’t suit our style of play – I will allow @spudski to elaborate!)

We also signed Liam Walsh of course, however I don’t think he can be considered a ‘starter’ just yet.

@Michael McIndoe has detailed how our style of play changed once Adebola was signed in that we abandoned our quick, counter, passing game for a more direct approach that didn’t suit most of the personnel we had at the club. Since January we are seeing very similar; the style of play that got us to the top of the Championship appears to have been ditched in favour of a more frantic, direct style not helped by team selection, the re-introduction of Diedhou and the more recent introduction of Diony.

We didn’t stick to our playing principles in 2008 or strengthen sufficiently in January and it ultimately cost us promotion. I believe the same is happening again, it has already cost us a top two spot and unless we return to team selection/style of play we adopted pre-Christmas then it may very well cost us a play-off spot which is frankly there for the taking. We need to get back to basics and what we were doing in that brilliant run in Nov/Dec: Fielding; Wright, Flint, Baker, Mags; Brownhill, Pack, Smith, Bryan; Paterson; Reid.

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/191776-new-signings-needed-for-promotion/

 

If you know it, we know it, Michael Mcindoe knew it, why is it still happening?

It has to be true that we do not want to be promoted this season, as we are responsible for own sabotage!

I do wonder if the Atyeo is going to be developed before the powers authorise a serious, all out blitz on promotion.

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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

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3 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

Hahahah, the parallels are actually astonishing. 

Time is a circle.

Innums.

I suppose what makes it a little harder to take is the fact that the man at the top is the same (SL) and the head coach also witnessed what happened in 2008 unravel before his very own eyes. So, lessons learnt? It appears @Michael McIndoe and a lot of supporters can see the similarities....why can't those in charge?

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Kingswoodactor

Kingswoodactor

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110% agree.

4-5-1 with Reid up top, and supported by midfield runners is the way to go, especially away from home, and maybe even at home as well. Why not bring Diedhiou on for the last 20 or so instead, as he'll probably be more effective that way. 

Ideally we could slot Bryan back in at LB and have COD back on the left side of midfield too, as that seemed to work well before Callum's injury. 

We're still missing that perfect (for the way we play) right sided/footed midfielder, and I see that as a key signing for the Summer. 

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Kid in the Riot

Kid in the Riot

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9 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Harsh on Kent. More the factor that Pato has been critically dropping out of form since New Year.

Not harsh on Kent at all. Not his fault, but he's a ball-carrier (like Nick Carle was)  who like to cut inside a lot, take players on and isn't particularly disciplined defensively. I just don't think he is a good fit for our style of play. 

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tinman85

tinman85

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Posted
28 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

It was with interest that I read @Michael McIndoe 's post back in January that urged City not to make the same mistakes as they did in 2008 in regard to player recruitment. I think it’s fair to say it was a widely held view amongst the fanbase that we didn’t strengthen sufficiently in that window and so it was interesting to see that view was also held by at least one member of the playing staff from that time. The particularly pertinent line from Michael’s post (link below) is as follows:

“I remember 10 years ago when Gary was sat in a very similar position and we signed a foreigner who didn't know the division and someone who didn't suit our style of play.”

I assume the players Michael is referring to are:

1)     Nick Carle (a foreigner who didn’t know the division); and

2)     Dele Adebola (someone who didn’t suit our style of play).

Skip forward 10 years and the similarities regarding our two ‘marquee’ signings in January are uncanny:

1)     Lois Diony (a foreigner who doesn’t know the division & hasn’t scored all season); and

2)     Ryan Kent (someone who IMO it is becoming clear doesn’t suit our style of play – I will allow @spudski to elaborate!)

We also signed Liam Walsh of course, however I don’t think he can be considered a ‘starter’ just yet.

@Michael McIndoe has detailed how our style of play changed once Adebola was signed in that we abandoned our quick, counter, passing game for a more direct approach that didn’t suit most of the personnel we had at the club. Since January we are seeing very similar; the style of play that got us to the top of the Championship appears to have been ditched in favour of a more frantic, direct style not helped by team selection, the re-introduction of Diedhou and the more recent introduction of Diony.

We didn’t stick to our playing principles in 2008 or strengthen sufficiently in January and it ultimately cost us promotion. I believe the same is happening again, it has already cost us a top two spot and unless we return to team selection/style of play we adopted pre-Christmas then it may very well cost us a play-off spot which is frankly there for the taking. We need to get back to basics and what we were doing in that brilliant run in Nov/Dec: Fielding; Wright, Flint, Baker, Mags; Brownhill, Pack, Smith, Bryan; Paterson; Reid.

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/191776-new-signings-needed-for-promotion/

 

Think it should read Tinman85's post too. 

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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I wouldn't say so exactly. 

  • Diony is worse by far than Adebola.
  • Walsh looks a good prospect.
  • Kent has been- despite his defensive flaws- not too bad in terms of assists.

Moreover, Diony is on loan so won't be a big loss moving forward, while Kent and Walsh are of the right age profile (I know Kent is on loan and we may well not renew him too)...

I think it's definitely a change in playing principles though, especially which is similar. Paterson behind Reid worked great. Since the initial change, there has been chopping and changing (some out of necessity) and the fluid, possession-based, perhaps more patient game of up to and including Wolves at home seems to have largely disappeared. We cannot downplay how vital losing that Wolves game has been either!

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Lrrr

Lrrr

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Thing is we'd have all loved for us to have gone out and spent money in January, however we know the club is working on set principles. We all know you don't get the best value for players in January, Madine went for £6m and how many would have been happy if we had gone out and spent that? To bring in championship proven quality we;d have had to overspend on fees and likely wages, which if we hadn't got promotion would have set us back for what we could do in the summer. We're working on a bottom half budget and I think some fans forget that given we have Lansdown looking over us. 

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Bris Red

Bris Red

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I keep on saying about the similarities to 2008 and ive been by and large shot down by many on here. We have come on as a club a fair but since 2008 admittedly but its so frustrating that we didnt give it the real push it so needed in January 2008 and also January 2018.

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Super

Super

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I thought Adebola was decent, gave one of the best centre forward performances I have seen at Palace in the Playoffs, sadly he was shocking at Wembley! (not the only one!) Thought he fitted our style well. An upgrade on Byfield and Enoch.

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Jack Dawe

Jack Dawe

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With the benefit of hindsight, we now know that Gary reached the very peak of his powers and ability at this club ten years ago. He has declined as a manager since then, at least as far as position in the pyramid goes.

With his boy, Lee, there is still possibility and potential, where and when his peak will be, we cannot know. It might've been on 20th December, 2017. It might be in 2019, or beyond. Nobody knows.

So, despite any current parrallels between then and now, the future for Lee and this club is tantalisingly unknown and unwritten.

An uncertainty that drives many nuts, and down all kinds of avenues and cul-de-sacs and back-alleys looking for some/any pointers as to what this latest defeat/poor run/signing/transfer window means for the longer term. Me included.

 

 

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The turtle

The turtle

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32 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

With the benefit of hindsight, we now know that Gary reached the very peak of his powers and ability at this club ten years ago. He has declined as a manager since then, at least as far as position in the pyramid goes.

With his boy, Lee, there is still possibility and potential, where and when his peak will be, we cannot know. It might've been on 20th December, 2017. It might be in 2019, or beyond. Nobody knows.

So, despite any current parrallels between then and now, the future for Lee and this club is tantalisingly unknown and unwritten.

An uncertainty that drives many nuts, and down all kinds of avenues and cul-de-sacs and back-alleys looking for some/any pointers as to what this latest defeat/poor run/signing/transfer window means for the longer term. Me included.

 

 

I think getting yeovil promoted to the championship was pretty outragous. Football manager computer game territory!

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Robbored

Robbored

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Senior Johnson failed to strengthen after the pray-off final. SL said as much not long after he sacked him.

Very different scenario under Junior Johnson.

Although significantly less experienced that his dad he is nonetheless a far better head coach. He works exceptionally hard, learns from PL managers like Pep and Pottechino. Thinks very deeply about the game and how it should be played and his communication skills are top drawer both with the media and us fans. He produces attractive football in his own high press style.

LJ has been employed by SL who trusts him to adopt his strategy of signing and developing young players which he's done and several of them are now out loan in the lower leagues gaining valuable experience of competitive league football.  Laughably LJ gets criticised for signing these players...................:facepalm:. His dad was under no such strategy back then.

As MA said the club are not chasing the PL this season but it remains the ultimate goal. If we get there this season then all well and good but if we don't then no big deal. 

I find the constant negativity around LJ utterly groundless. This season has been pretty damn good but some fans just can't accept that fact.

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cidered abroad

cidered abroad

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2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Senior Johnson failed to strengthen after the pray-off final. SL said as much not long after he sacked him.

Very different scenario under Junior Johnson.

Although significantly less experienced that his dad he is nonetheless a far better head coach. He works exceptionally hard, learns from PL managers like Pep and Pottechino. Thinks very deeply about the game and how it should be played and his communication skills are top drawer both with the media and us fans. He produces attractive football in his own high press style.

LJ has been employed by SL who trusts him to adopt his strategy of signing and developing young players which he's done and several of them are now out loan in the lower leagues gaining valuable experience of competitive league football.  Laughably LJ gets criticised for signing these players...................:facepalm:. His dad was under no such strategy back then.

As MA said the club are not chasing the PL this season but it remains the ultimate goal. If we get there this season then all well and good but if we don't then no big deal. 

I find the constant negativity around LJ utterly groundless. This season has been pretty damn good but some fans just can't accept that fact.

Yet he still manages a totally barren run of at least two months in the middle of every season! Groundless?

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Mr Popodopolous

Mr Popodopolous

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8 minutes ago, The turtle said:

I think getting yeovil promoted to the championship was pretty outragous. Football manager computer game territory!

Was pretty amazing that. He went back there when they were bottom end of League One halfway through 11-12, was probably not expected to do much more than prop them up a bit and maybe make them a useful League One side.

However the season after he went back and completed what he started there in a sense. He's a pretty useful coach, but I think LJ will prove to be better.

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Robbored

Robbored

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18 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Yet he still manages a totally barren run of at least two months in the middle of every season! Groundless?

Two seasons at City if you call this recent run of results 'barren'. Remind me - how many draws have there been?

He hasn't lost 0-6 at home to Cardiff either..............:facepalm:

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