Ambulant S/T

[Cowshed]

11 minutes ago, Dave said:

n my experience London 2012 was not a one off. 

Our own game against Manchester United used this pricing system for wheelchair/ambulant tickets.

I accept it is not all, but this is not a step the Club has taken in isolation.

I am not defending the change in policy, it has cost me money, but I can see the logic.

In another post you stated this was fair, that is a defence. 

Parallel this step to another club in then region and their pricing for season tickets?

Isolation is not consulting, unless there really was extensive engagement with disability groups and services. 

Five pillars? Community? 

The entire arbitary way this has been dealt with calls into question what the C in club stands for. That C stands for something very different. 

 

[DANWRENBCFC4LIFE]

25 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Fair play Dan that is a bargain for an entire stand 

Needed the leg room 

[GIBBO THE GREAT]

4 hours ago, Redmycolour said:

Anyone know why the above tkt has been abolished, I sit in S/S I'm told by ticket office my tkt has increased by £60 to £345.(Adult).

spoke to Gareth Torpy this morning he was the person i dealt with about my son's disabled ticket last season he said the club were abiding by the 2010 discrimination act what i can gather is that because my son sits next to an able bodied person that person would be discriminated against because my son payed less for his seat then the  able bodied person  next to him if that makes sense, also they fall in line with fifteen other clubs in the championship with new grounds as regards disabled ticketing. i said if my son was able bodied and could work seven days a week to pay for his season ticket he would but a rise of £114 plus the £25 admin charge if bought monthly was too much,Like someone said in a earlier post we are not treated as supporters just clients to a business conglomerate.

[spudski]

I've enquired for my father who's 84 and partially sighted and almost deaf. He also needs a carer with him.

Phoned the club and was given an email...still waiting on a reply.

How long do you usually have to wait to get replies from the Club?

[BTRFTG]

18 minutes ago, GIBBO THE GREAT said:

spoke to Gareth Torpy this morning he was the person i dealt with about my son's disabled ticket last season he said the club were abiding by the 2010 discrimination act

What he told you is not the whole truth.

It falls under the Equality Act 2010 and whist it's true that ,theoretically, a protected group could complain if charged less than a non-protected comparator, it's easy to get around the discrimination. The stated policy would be that the club desires to charge all groups the same cost (as in line with the Act) but is able to deploy differential pricing using an argument known as Objective Justification (sometimes called Positive Action.) The club would in the same policy document  reference that it recognises certain protected groups are subject to historic and mitigating circumstances ( in the case of the less abled that employment rates and incomes are verifiably and significantly lower than their comparators.) The club would state that the comparators would be kept under regular review and that as and when the external differentials equalised they'd amend their pricing to parity.  It's all a bit of myth that courts aren't sensible enough to recognise where policies are legitimately for a proactive purpose.

[Up The City!]

I remember reading a few months ago how a deaf person forced a concert venue to pay for a specialist sign language expert amongst other things so the said person could enjoy the concert like a normal persons would.

I get a carers ticket with mine but half the time I attend by myself. I’ve asked the club many times to help make things easier when I’m by myself but they just quote legal shit at me that they are doing what they need to do by giving me the carers ticket.

Think it’s about time I went and got a court order like that concert goer did.

 

[Galley is our king]

3 hours ago, GIBBO THE GREAT said:

spoke to Gareth Torpy this morning he was the person i dealt with about my son's disabled ticket last season he said the club were abiding by the 2010 discrimination act what i can gather is that because my son sits next to an able bodied person that person would be discriminated against because my son payed less for his seat then the  able bodied person  next to him if that makes sense, also they fall in line with fifteen other clubs in the championship with new grounds as regards disabled ticketing. i said if my son was able bodied and could work seven days a week to pay for his season ticket he would but a rise of £114 plus the £25 admin charge if bought monthly was too much,Like someone said in a earlier post we are not treated as supporters just clients to a business conglomerate.

Wrong. It is still down to the club to decide.

Should any organisation decide to go for equal prices it MUST first consult with disabled reps, something else the club failed to do.

I went last night and was appalled at the club's inability to make any changes fans suggested.

Disabled tickets come with a free carer's seat "should you require one". I hope ALL disabled supporters now take this weather they need it or not!

 

[Rich]

4 hours ago, CyderInACan said:

Fair play Dan that is a bargain for an entire stand 

That was before redevelopment.

[GlastonburyRed]

3 hours ago, GIBBO THE GREAT said:

spoke to Gareth Torpy this morning he was the person i dealt with about my son's disabled ticket last season he said the club were abiding by the 2010 discrimination act what i can gather is that because my son sits next to an able bodied person that person would be discriminated against because my son payed less for his seat then the  able bodied person  next to him if that makes sense, also they fall in line with fifteen other clubs in the championship with new grounds as regards disabled ticketing. i said if my son was able bodied and could work seven days a week to pay for his season ticket he would but a rise of £114 plus the £25 admin charge if bought monthly was too much,Like someone said in a earlier post we are not treated as supporters just clients to a business conglomerate.

Hang on though, that reasoning from the club doesn’t stand up to scrutiny - the EqA 2010 has disability (not ability) as one of its ‘protected characteristics’; it’s not about ensuring that an able-bodied person has parity, the purpose is to ensure that the disabled individual is not placed at a disadvantage. Additionally, just because they say they fall in line with 15 other clubs, doesn’t mean they do, or, even if it does, doesn’t mean that all 16 of them are acting in a lawful manner. There’s also the small matter of plain old common/human decency. Poor old City, forever scoring own goals PR-wise, just when you think they have actually turned a corner off field with their governance issues.

[BTRFTG]

1 hour ago, Up The City! said:

I remember reading a few months ago how a deaf person forced a concert venue to pay for a specialist sign language expert amongst other things so the said person could enjoy the concert like a normal persons would.

I get a carers ticket with mine but half the time I attend by myself. I’ve asked the club many times to help make things easier when I’m by myself but they just quote legal shit at me that they are doing what they need to do by giving me the carers ticket.

Think it’s about time I went and got a court order like that concert goer did.

 

In your case you need to explain to the club what it is you are unable to do for yourself that others are able to do for themselves? In terms of access, infrastructure and even IT these should be reasonably equivalent and if they are not you have a claim and the club would have to put right. That was the essence of the publicised court case, that it was reasonable for the promoter to provide signage for hearing impaired punters who wished to attend the concert. It would be the same if the club expected somebody to have to do something on your behalf such you could enjoy the normal matchday experience.

In respect of requiring a carer you either do or you don't. The carer provision is a catch all whereby for whatever regulation it isn't possible to, or affordable, to make the necessary adjustment. If it's the case you don't need a carer to enjoy the same access, it's just one makes things so much easier ( getting that half time pint for example, ) then the club have no obligation and have arguably done the right thing and gone that extra mile in offering a ticket that affords superior standards to those enjoyed by the average punter.

Probably best to go back and explain what it is that would make like easier when attending on your own. Good luck.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

This wreaks to me of a club who for the first time 30 years has managed a decent cup run and or the first time in 10 years have managed a half decent form in the championship (conveniently forgetting the shit form of the last 2 months) and believing that they have somehow cracked the big time and believing that the 22k from the last home game will come flooding back next season regardless of the heartless and contemptuous way they treat the fans.

They need to be hit exactly where it hurts, don't buy season tickets, pick and choose your games, I for one although enjoying watching on BCTV am seriously considering not bothering, I have complained at least 10 times this season about the product and have been referred to the company operating the system, who are useless, the club have sold it to me have got there money and couldn't give a shit anymore.

I thought that the club recently employed a fans liaison officer, WTF is he doing, where was the liaison over this matter.

The club have got it wrong again and should be made to pay.

One last question, have our rugby brethren been treated in exactly the manner?.

[BTRFTG]

9 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

...the purpose is to ensure that the disabled individual is not placed at a disadvantage. 

It's suggested the club's specious argument is that the less abled would be discriminated against ( moral standing perhaps) as they would not be paying an equivalent to their more able comparators. The club would, however, have to provide the facility for those who'd like to pay more,  should they feel so disadvantaged,  so to do. Simple.

[Galley is our king]

4 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

In your case you need to explain to the club what it is you are unable to do for yourself that others are able to do for themselves? In terms of access, infrastructure and even IT these should be reasonably equivalent and if they are not you have a claim and the club would have to put right. That was the essence of the publicised court case, that it was reasonable for the promoter to provide signage for hearing impaired punters who wished to attend the concert. It would be the same if the club expected somebody to have to do something on your behalf such you could enjoy the normal matchstick experience.

In respect of requiring a carer you either do or you don't. The carer provision is a catch all whereby for whatever regulation it isn't possible to, or affordable, to make the necessary adjustment. If it's the case you don't need a carer to enjoy the same access, it's just one makes things so much easier ( getting that half time pint for example, ) then the club have no obligation and have arguably done the right thing and gone that extra mile in offering a ticket that affords superior standards to those enjoyed by the average punter.

Probably best to go back and explain what it is that would make like easier when attending on your own. Good luck.

All great advice but the club will take no notice. I am on FAN and since the redevelopment have been banging on about the total lack of access without steps for ambulant disabled supporters.

The old stadium had it in the Atyeo and the Dolman, some poor design decisions were taken at some stage.

I myself have to climb 12 steps (south stand), before I can start to get to my seat. Down and up again for food, drink or a wee!

Try that on two crutches!

Reasonable adjustment? Don't make me laugh!

[BTRFTG]

4 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

All great advice but the club will take no notice. I am on FAN and since the redevelopment have been banging on about the total lack of access without steps for ambulant disabled supporters.

The old stadium had it in the Atyeo and the Dolman, some poor design decisions were taken at some stage.

I myself have to climb 12 steps (south stand), before I can start to get to my seat. Down and up again for food, drink or a wee!

Try that on two crutches!

Reasonable adjustment? Don't make me laugh!

Interesting. Are you saying the club is unable to offer seats with step free access (in this day and age that wouldn't pass regs,) or are any offered not in a range of positions you'd like (all at pitch level perhaps?) I'm only familiar with the Dolman but isn't there lift or chair access to seats higher up the Lansdown?  In the former case it's unreasonable for a club of our size not to offer some step free access.

[ZiderEyed]

@Matt Parsons BCFCSLO

What's your say here? Are you supposed to fight the fans corner? Not digging you out, but are you? Have you spoken to our superiors at Bristol Sport about the general loathing of everything about this?

[Galley is our king]

15 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Interesting. Are you saying the club is unable to offer seats with step free access (in this day and age that wouldn't pass regs,) or are any offered not in a range of positions you'd like (all at pitch level perhaps?) I'm only familiar with the Dolman but isn't there lift or chair access to seats higher up the Lansdown?  In the former case it's unreasonable for a club of our size not to offer some step free access.

The only lift in the Lansdown goes up to the upper part, the club wouldn't sell season tickets there until they made it the family area. Also its the steepest part of the ground.

There are facilities for wheelchair disabled supporters (as there should be), but no other level access and there is only one of those wheelchair areas not at pitchside with the users getting soaking wet!

No level access for ambulant disabled supporters anywhere.

When I asked the club to comment they said "the stadium is ambulant disabled compliant".

They are correct but only because there are no regs for this!

Does it take away there duty of care though? Not in my opinion it doesn't!

Perhaps this will become a theme moving forward, bash the vulnerable!

[GlastonburyRed]

48 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

It's suggested the club's specious argument is that the less abled would be discriminated against ( moral standing perhaps) as they would not be paying an equivalent to their more able comparators. The club would, however, have to provide the facility for those who'd like to pay more,  should they feel so disadvantaged,  so to do. Simple.

Hmm, I don’t understand how City would view people who are paying less being the disadvantaged group. How could any reasonable person think paying less = disadvantaged. Flies in the face of common sense. Should I be surprised with our beloved BCFC, course not, :laugh:.

[Ska Junkie]

6 hours ago, RedM said:

They don’t want young people, old people or people with disabilities as your bum on the seat is worth less financially than their preferred ‘customer’, an adult who eats and drinks at the ground, someone who can be upsold a Heineken or other ‘matchday experience’  package. 

Obviously the club cannot say they don’t want these groups as they may fall foul of the discrimination rules so they do the next best thing and make it awkwardly financially. Unfortunately football is a treat, a hobby not an essential service so they are not obliged to offer discounts or such like. 

I'm inclined to agree RedM. I've just looked at the renewal prices for my dad and myself, dad's 81. My seat in the Dolman has gone up 3% while dad's has gone up 16%! That says to me that your statement is correct TBH.

[BTRFTG]

27 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Hmm, I don’t understand how City would view people who are paying less being the disadvantaged group. How could any reasonable person think paying less = disadvantaged. Flies in the face of common sense. Should I be surprised with our beloved BCFC, course not, :laugh:.

Wrong way round, it's not the club. There are some 'political types' who'd consider being offered a concession a derogatory gesture - "don't assume I can't afford to pay......" Its strange times we live in. As I said, offer the concession and anybody daft enough to demand paying more then let them do so....

[BTRFTG]

37 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

 

When I asked the club to comment they said "the stadium is ambulant disabled compliant"

Wow! Didn't realise it was that bad.

The club however could be on a sticky wicket using that argument where they've refurbished. Whilst Part Ms are enforceable the fact remains that BS8300 and The Guide To Safety At Sports Grounds are ACOPs and for most courts that's as good as statute. If City didn't follow best practice the onus is on the club to demonstrate why.

[GIBBO THE GREAT]

1 hour ago, GlastonburyRed said:

Hang on though, that reasoning from the club doesn’t stand up to scrutiny - the EqA 2010 has disability (not ability) as one of its ‘protected characteristics’; it’s not about ensuring that an able-bodied person has parity, the purpose is to ensure that the disabled individual is not placed at a disadvantage. Additionally, just because they say they fall in line with 15 other clubs, doesn’t mean they do, or, even if it does, doesn’t mean that all 16 of them are acting in a lawful manner. There’s also the small matter of plain old common/human decency. Poor old City, forever scoring own goals PR-wise, just when you think they have actually turned a corner off field with their governance issues.

mr Torpy was adamant and became quite aggressive to the point that BCFC had not broken any rules and justified  the price rises, kept quoting the EQA act of 2010 said i could wait until the end of the month incase of a new development told my son not to hold his breath

[Galley is our king]

29 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Wow! Didn't realise it was that bad.

The club however could be on a sticky wicket using that argument where they've refurbished. Whilst Part Ms are enforceable the fact remains that BS8300 and The Guide To Safety At Sports Grounds are ACOPs and for most courts that's as good as statute. If City didn't follow best practice the onus is on the club to demonstrate why.

Thanks mate for this. I am part of the architecture profession and checked everything I could think of. I also know a disability consultant and asked him.

The answer was the same, no relevant regulations.

Piss poor excuse in reality,

Just goes to show how much they think of disabled supporters.

[Davefevs]

10 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

The same ages as everyone else. They seemed to think it was an adequate answer. The room did not. 

Basically their attitude was 'why should you pay less than everyone else'. They came to this conclusion without asking any fans and provided no warning of a rise so people can save a bit more. 

It was my lowlight from last night. There was one gentleman who gave a very passionate speech on the issue and resigned from his position (chairman of BCFC disabled fans or something like that). I fear it fell on deaf ears. 

Rob Wood is the disabled wheelchair user liaison...absolutely smashing bloke....he was going to resign over the summer, but resigned last night instead.  He called me last night.  He was not impressed

8 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Very sad. I fear we are dealing with people without a shred of decency. 

I recently lost my rag with the Cotswold Wildlife park. They only offer concessions for the disabled if they arrive in big groups (like a dozen or more), not as individuals. 

The inference being that disabled people travel around in groups on days out. It's bloody prehistoric. 

They weren't having any of it. 

That’s one place we’ll strike off our list.  Mrs Fevs is about to mail them. 

7 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

I have no experience of the facilities for disabled supporters, but looking around the stadium I get the impression that a lot of the areas for wheelchair users are still exposed to the elements, is that the case?

I think the redevelopment has given Wheelchair supporters some prominent positions, especially compared to other clubs.  I spent 15/16 season in SS A9 (behind the goal towards to Dolman - that curved section of the wheelchair bay).  I got my feet wet once all season.  Despite having several matches where it rained, it didn’t seem to come into that part.

7 hours ago, CotswoldRed said:

Also, some disabled don't require a carer. If you live alone and walk with difficulty or use a chair and attend matches on your own I believe this should be recognised. 

I would recommend you get a Carer ticket and bring someone along, if you’ve got someone interested.  I’m guessing you would prefer 1/2 price (or reduction) rather than 1+Carer though?

It is also not unreasonable to request two carers, which believe it or not, City would allow!!

5 hours ago, spudski said:

I've enquired for my father who's 84 and partially sighted and almost deaf. He also needs a carer with him.

Phoned the club and was given an email...still waiting on a reply.

How long do you usually have to wait to get replies from the Club?

Phone Gareth Torpy. Or Email him direct. gareth.torpy@bristol-sport.co.uk

[Harry]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rob Wood is the disabled wheelchair user liaison...absolutely smashing bloke....he was going to resign over the summer, but resigned last night instead.  He called me last night.  He was not impressed

If only one comment was allowed on all of this furore then this is it. 

This, quite literally, says it all. 

[Galley is our king]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rob Wood is the disabled wheelchair user liaison...absolutely smashing bloke....he was going to resign over the summer, but resigned last night instead.  He called me last night.  He was not impressed

That’s one place we’ll strike off our list.  Mrs Fevs is about to mail them. 

I think the redevelopment has given Wheelchair supporters some prominent positions, especially compared to other clubs.  I spent 15/16 season in SS A9 (behind the goal towards to Dolman - that curved section of the wheelchair bay).  I got my feet wet once all season.  Despite having several matches where it rained, it didn’t seem to come into that part.

I would recommend you get a Carer ticket and bring someone along, if you’ve got someone interested.  I’m guessing you would prefer 1/2 price (or reduction) rather than 1+Carer though?

It is also not unreasonable to request two carers, which believe it or not, City would allow!!

Phone Gareth Torpy. Or Email him direct. gareth.torpy@bristol-sport.co.uk

Rob Wood is a top man and its a sad day when someone like him feels he cannot trust the club anymore.

Oh well, he's only done it for 22 years!

A tiny bit of movement last night and Rob and others would have felt a bit happier but there was nothing, nowt, zilch.

And today?

Just silence. 

[BTRFTG]

21 minutes ago, Galley is our king said:

Thanks mate for this. I am part of the architecture profession and checked everything I could think of. I also know a disability consultant and asked him.

The answer was the same, no relevant regulations.

Piss poor excuse in reality,

Just goes to show how much they think of disabled supporters.

Shocking, not sure when Green Guide V 4 was published but in a project that size one might have suspected the club would have picked up the phone.....

[CotswoldRed]

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rob Wood is the disabled wheelchair user liaison...absolutely smashing bloke....he was going to resign over the summer, but resigned last night instead.  He called me last night.  He was not impressed

That's terrible news. 

Rob is salt of the earth. Always comes over to see how we are at every game. The man cares. 

Proper, proper fan. 

[Davefevs]

9 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

That's terrible news. 

Rob is salt of the earth. Always comes over to see how we are at every game. The man cares. 

Proper, proper fan. 

Yep, makes a real fuss of Joe.  They have some nice banter together.  This was one of the kind things he did, asking Joe to help present the end of season player awards.

[CotswoldRed]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, makes a real fuss of Joe.  They have some nice banter together.  This was one of the kind things he did, asking Joe to help present the end of season player awards.

Brilliant stuff. Thanks for sharing the photo 

[spudski]

30 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Rob Wood is the disabled wheelchair user liaison...absolutely smashing bloke....he was going to resign over the summer, but resigned last night instead.  He called me last night.  He was not impressed

That’s one place we’ll strike off our list.  Mrs Fevs is about to mail them. 

I think the redevelopment has given Wheelchair supporters some prominent positions, especially compared to other clubs.  I spent 15/16 season in SS A9 (behind the goal towards to Dolman - that curved section of the wheelchair bay).  I got my feet wet once all season.  Despite having several matches where it rained, it didn’t seem to come into that part.

I would recommend you get a Carer ticket and bring someone along, if you’ve got someone interested.  I’m guessing you would prefer 1/2 price (or reduction) rather than 1+Carer though?

It is also not unreasonable to request two carers, which believe it or not, City would allow!!

Phone Gareth Torpy. Or Email him direct. gareth.torpy@bristol-sport.co.uk

That's the email I've got Dave...guess he's been busy dealing with last night.

Tbh...after reading so much on here, I'm not sure whether it's worth all the hassle.