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How to counter Bristol Sport's attitude


The Constant Rabbit

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2 minutes ago, ooRya said:

If the fans all walked away would the club carry on? No it wouldn't.

Are we not back to the Tesco argument here though? If everyone stopped going to Tesco and went to Aldi instead it would cease to exist.

So by your logic Tesco is its customers. So we should get a say in what prices it charges and who can park where. As customers we get a say by voting with our feet and that's it. 

Rather than whinge and moan about it just accept the club is a business not a social democracy. As was said above, people are quick to moan about paying more while expecting the owner to suck up the losses which is unrealistic.

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3 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't think anyone disputes that point.

Having read through the thoughts of people on here the main complaint is the manner in which the rise in costs has been imposed.  Rather than the fact that it has been done at all.

Many have said that a price rise is acceptable.  What is not acceptable is the extent of those rises, the way they have been implemented, and the apparent lack of sympathy from the club.

I agree with those points, but many are going off on a tangent from those valid arguments. 

I’m as affected as most. I sit in Dolman wings with one adult & one under 12 ST. 

My two tickets have gone up best part of £100 for next season. As a single dad, that’s quite a hit. 

I will renew. I haven’t yet, as requested by those trying to negotiate with the club. 

As I’ve said before, I think child prices doubling overnight is wrong, however, I don’t think that the new prices are unreasonable. They are just comparatively much higher, and with very little notice, it leaves me needing to find an extra £100 almost, on what I’d assumed I’d need to be spending out of this months pay. 

Season tickets usually go on sale around this time. That’s not a big issue, it’s the fact that sizeable increases (however the value is deemed) are difficult to find in one month, without notice. Plus my bloody brakes have just gone on the car and that’s another £570 that I’ve now got to find this month, somehow!! I think that kind of reality is what hasn’t been taken into account for people, by the wealthy people deciding them  

 

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17 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I think one point that seems to be forgotten here is that the club is losing money. On top of losing money, fans are demanding increased success, better quality of players, generally like the new faciities, which took massive investment. 

Now, rightly or wrongly, all those costs need covering. 

It’s interesting how those who see it as “our club” are the ones complaining about keeping/making “our club” financially solvent. 

People cant have it both ways. If it’s “our club” we have to help cover it’s costs. If it’s SL’s or Bristol Sports club, they they have a duty to try and make the books balance. 

I’m not saying these proposals are necessarily the best way about going about this, but people do seem to living in a bit of a self entitled, unrealistic bubble, on this matter. 

I’ve spend the majority of my adult life either owning or managing businesses. Not big businesses, ones that are affected by any increase in costs. Customers never like price increases, understandably - but they also (the majority) fail to understand that by doing what you can to keep prices down, leaves very little leeway when costs increase and to remain solvent and stay in existence, prices then need to go up. 

What is the answer though..? People bemoan wage structures. People berate not “splashing the cash” in January, but then complain when ways to increase these budgets are implemented. 

One thing for sure is that I don’t know why anyone who is wealthy enough to own a football club and is prepared to cover its (vast) losses bothers! 

If I was a billionaire, I’d be on a beach in the Caribbean, flying home at weekends to watch my beloved City. Damn, I’d probably buy you all a season ticket, to improve my own match day experience with a full house every week! 

What I wouldn’t want to do is put up with half the shit on here that these incredible people get, for trying to provide us with some much demanded success! 

It was heavily rumoured that £500,000 was spent on agent fees in acquiring Gustav Engvall. Perhaps the club needs to look at its business practises such as this, instead of screwing over the disabled and children.

 

2 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Are we not back to the Tesco argument here though? If everyone stopped going to Tesco and went to Aldi instead it would cease to exist.

So by your logic Tesco is its customers. So we should get a say in what prices it charges and who can park where. As customers we get a say by voting with our feet and that's it. 

Rather than whinge and moan about it just accept the club is a business not a social democracy. As was said above, people are quick to moan about paying more while expecting the owner to suck up the losses which is unrealistic.

Losses that have dramatically increased throughout his tenure. We were losing 2 million ish pre Lansdown. He had that up around the 14 million mark after a decade through splurging and mismanagement. 

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3 minutes ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

The club charge roughly £45 for a replica kit. They ask £5 for a ****ing key ring. £4.50 for a pint of watered down lager in a plastic pint. Make the prices sensible and I'd actually be happy to plough into the club.

That said, to give me just over 2 weeks very late notice to gather £400 for a season ticket. Jog on.

But the facts are... they give my son a “Free” mini kit included with his ST. 

I don’t need a key ring. 

They don’t “water down” the beer. 

They actually charge me £3.60 (this season. Next season may be different) for a pint of Thatchers. Less that my matchday pub after the game. 

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9 minutes ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

This guy knows. Not intended to sound as harsh as it seems, but people on this forum seem to believe they are the 'voice of the fans' - this simply isn't the case. You'll be surprised how many people don't even know about OTIB or in contrast hold it in contempt. 

Whilst the Original Post is very good and makes great points, it will never take off, because only a minority of our support actually read and actively engage with this content.

I don’t think that’s true, maybe 10 years ago yes. An educated guess but I would imagine most City fans are active or view at least one form of City related internet media (inclusive of Forum, Facebook, Twitter or even comments section on the Post website) regularly.

This uproar isn’t exclusive to here, people know about this and are discussing it on all of these mediums.

I agree though that when it comes down to it, people may not follow through with boycotts or protests away from the Internet.

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3 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

It was heavily rumoured that £500,000 was spent on agent fees in acquiring Gustav Engvall. 

Seems a bit unlikely. The FA say the club spent a total of £514,816 on agent fees between 2 February 2016 and 31 January 2017 (i.e. the period in which Gustav Engvall signed): http://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/rules-and-regulations/2016-17/all-fees-to-publish-2017.ashx

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2 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don’t think that’s true, maybe 10 years ago yes. An educated guess but I would imagine most City fans are active or view at least one form of City related internet media (inclusive of Forum, Facebook, Twitter or even comments section on the Post website) regularly.

This uproar isn’t exclusive to here, people know about this and are discussing it on all of these mediums.

I agree though that when it comes down to it, people may not follow through with boycotts or protests away from the Internet.

It was also mentioned on 'Sound of the City' on Monday. Dare say a few- and in particular even some of the less tech comfortable, listen to that and would have picked up on it through there too.

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6 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

But the facts are... they give my son a “Free” mini kit included with his ST. 

I don’t need a key ring. 

They don’t “water down” the beer. 

They actually charge me £3.60 (this season. Next season may be different) for a pint of Thatchers. Less that my matchday pub after the game. 

Good for you. For me, the club are providing me no incentives to hand over my money.

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8 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Are we not back to the Tesco argument here though? If everyone stopped going to Tesco and went to Aldi instead it would cease to exist.

So by your logic Tesco is its customers. So we should get a say in what prices it charges and who can park where. As customers we get a say by voting with our feet and that's it. 

Rather than whinge and moan about it just accept the club is a business not a social democracy. As was said above, people are quick to moan about paying more while expecting the owner to suck up the losses which is unrealistic.

Comparing Tescos to Bristol City Football Club is ridiculous, and you know it. (or you should!)

When you go shopping at Tescos, do you feel an affinity with those around you? Do you feel part of something, part of the "whole" ? Of course not.

I appreciate the point you are trying to make, but you need to find a much better analogy than that.

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2 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

Seems a bit unlikely. The FA say the club spent a total of £514,816 on agent fees between 2 February 2016 and 31 January 2017 (i.e. the period in which Gustav Engvall signed): http://www.thefa.com/-/media/thefacom-new/files/rules-and-regulations/2016-17/all-fees-to-publish-2017.ashx

Interesting. This was the source at the time https://www.fotbollskanalen.se/allsvenskan/stort-bortfall-for-blavitt-i-engvall-affaren---agenter-fick-flera-miljoner-/

All seemed very through the back door and unofficial. 

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4 minutes ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

Good for you. For me, the club are providing me no incentives to hand over my money.

I’m pretty sure it’s not just a special deal for me, but the case with everyone who buys like for like season tickets..!

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12 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Are we not back to the Tesco argument here though? If everyone stopped going to Tesco and went to Aldi instead it would cease to exist.

So by your logic Tesco is its customers. So we should get a say in what prices it charges and who can park where. As customers we get a say by voting with our feet and that's it. 

Rather than whinge and moan about it just accept the club is a business not a social democracy. As was said above, people are quick to moan about paying more while expecting the owner to suck up the losses which is unrealistic.

How are you getting on with that logical deduction I showed you? Disproved it or just ignoring it?

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7 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I’m pretty sure it’s not just a special deal for me, but the case with everyone who buys like for like season tickets..!

I agree the Season Ticket Plus gets you money off, and free kits with junior tickets is a great idea, I really do, but the club charge extortionate rates for a lot of things that doesn't encourage people to come down and spend. £45 for a shirt, £15 for a scarf etc. this stuff costs around £5-6 a unit to make if that. 

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7 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

How are you getting on with that logical deduction I showed you? Disproved it or just ignoring it?

I don't think your argument is based on logic it's more an emotional perspective. To me it is self-evident that you need someone to own and manage any football club. Those who have have supported the same club for years feel an emotional attachment to it which is different of course to ordinary businesses. However that is probably a bit irrational and leads to muddled thinking.

If you would rather wind us up and resurrect bcfc in the image of Hereford I think you will be in a minority.

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Just now, robin_unreliant said:

I don't think your argument is based on logic it's more an emotional perspective. To me it is self-evident that you need someone to own and manage any football club. Those who have have supported the same club for years feel an emotional attachment to it which is different of course to ordinary businesses. However that is probably a bit irrational and leads to muddled thinking.

If you would rather wind us up and resurrect bcfc in the image of Hereford I think you will be in a minority.

So if it isn't based on logic, why do said clubs still exist?

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2 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I don't think your argument is based on logic it's more an emotional perspective. To me it is self-evident that you need someone to own and manage any football club. Those who have have supported the same club for years feel an emotional attachment to it which is different of course to ordinary businesses. However that is probably a bit irrational and leads to muddled thinking.

If you would rather wind us up and resurrect bcfc in the image of Hereford I think you will be in a minority.

Spot on. The board cash in on the emotional element i.e. we see ourselves as supporters, not customers and have a love and affinity for the club.

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19 minutes ago, Anglo-Welsh said:

I agree the Season Ticket Plus gets you money off, and free kits with junior tickets is a great idea, I really do, but the club charge extortionate rates for a lot of things that doesn't encourage people to come down and spend. £45 for a shirt, £15 for a scarf etc. this stuff costs around £5-6 a unit to make if that. 

Scarfs for £15, just like the S82 ones..? 

Shirts for £45. Generally the going rate, worldwide, I believe. 

15% off of those prices with a season ticket. 

I don’t think youare being realistic mate, sorry. 

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28 minutes ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

So if it isn't based on logic, why do said clubs still exist?

If it was based purely on logic, everyone would support about 20 clubs in the world max- well I say the world, let's say spanning UK and the rest of Europe for the purposes of this.

When I say 'support', I mean the glory hunters, predominantly, watch on TV, subscribe, buy the shirt blah blah...This would be as distinct from actual and real supporters.

You would have- in no particular order:

  • Man Utd
  • Barcelona
  • Real Madrid
  • Bayern
  • Chelsea
  • Juventus
  • PSG- MAYBE
  • Arsenal
  • Liverpool
  • Man City
  • AC Milan- Bit of a sticky patch but brilliant history and rebuilding.
  • Inter Milan- Less of a history but still yeah a major club, see above.
  • MAYBE Napoli Because of their brilliant football and their renaissance in recent times.
  • MAYBE Borussia Dortmund- 2nd football force in a large country, the largest in Western Europe will definitely attract some.
  • Tottenham- Most probably.
  • Atletico- Have kicked back into gear in recent times.
  • Marseille- Maybe. A big club still, despite modern times counting against them a bit.

I've probably missed a few...but if it was based on logic, these are the ones that people would support. Predominantly,  maybe Ajax too owing to a glorious history, Celtic and Rangers due to being big clubs, albeit in a fairly small pond.

If based on logic purely- 1-12 will cover your needs with a few of the below perhaps in and around too, why bother supporting anyone else, let alone going to watch them??

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1 hour ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

 

It was heavily rumoured that £500,000 was spent on agent fees in acquiring Gustav Engvall. Perhaps the club needs to look at its business practises such as this, instead of screwing over the disabled and children.

 

Losses that have dramatically increased throughout his tenure. We were losing 2 million ish pre Lansdown. He had that up around the 14 million mark after a decade through splurging and mismanagement. 

it was back down to 3 million last season

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As another ‘pay-on-the-dayer’ - £100 for 3 Ipswich tickets (approaching £600 ticket spend for our tickets for just a few matches) - the season ticket costs seems to be reasonable. 

Just think the Club should have developed a stadium pricing strategy from Day 1, rather than making it up as they go along. Not really that hard. If they had, this would have saved them a lot of the grief they are getting now with concessions being ‘forced’ to move from ‘premium’ seats to ‘designated areas’. To the contrary, I’m sure they be getting many plaudits for the cheap concession prices, great views for the designated areas, facilities and events, 

 SL - given his generosity of the £millions he’s pumped into the Club - may have a right to dictate what goes on but always better to adopt a consensus rather than dictatorial approach as far as business affairs and ‘customers’ goes - particularly as many of those ‘cusomers’ have been ‘brand’ loyal before most of these administrators were born. 

Really has been a classic example of how not to roll out a new pricing strategy. Shambles really and for all the froth, whether it be treatment of fans or player recruitment - we fall way, way behind a number of Clubs in this division. Please, no more excuses about being young or inexperienced, this is the real world not a practice. Get it right first time. 

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48 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

Because the demand for football in those locations still exists of course.

Rangers were like us in that a businessman came forward to take them on weren't they?

Any businessman who wants to make more money doesn't buy a football club. 

We don't see it as a normal business and neither do they. 

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4 hours ago, harrys said:

I don’t think he’s playing devils advocate he always tries to justify higher prices at AG. He’s one of the few who actually thinks paying £41 potd to sit in the Lansdown is perfectly reasonable 

Ignore him. He’s a man of principles that seem very one sided to me. Doesn’t like the fact that he thinks I offer up season cards when I’m unable to attend and let others in on the cheap. 

Back to our legendary saviour who shalt not be criticised though - yep, I love talking about him - is he actually worse off now he’s so philanthropically shored up BCFC?

Is he bollocks. Every £ he’s invested in BCFC will have been more than covered by either the increase in value of the only real value in BS3 - the ground and surrounding land he’ll have acquired - or further tax reductions he’ll have enjoyed as a result of his investment in a loss making business.

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1 hour ago, ooRya said:

Sorry Robin_Unreliant, but you are very wrong in your argument.

Let's take it to the very basics and ask the following;

If the owners walked away would the club carry on? Yes it would.

If the fans all walked away would the club carry on? No it wouldn't.

If SL walked away tomorrow the club would fold within weeks. Yes a version of BCFC could be reformed by a supporters trust but it would take years to get back into the Football League and without serious investment wouldn't rise above league 1 level.

To be successful every club needs significant investment beyond the income provided by the fans through ticket and other purchase.  It's hypocritical to moan on one hand about lack of investment in January and then moan on the other about increases  in prices.  We all have a choice, pay up or find another interest.

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1 hour ago, robin_unreliant said:

Because the demand for football in those locations still exists of course.

Rangers were like us in that a businessman came forward to take them on weren't they?

I believe so, which is why I included them and Hereford in my original example for the sake of provinding different examples. However the truth still remains that both clubs for a while, had nothing except a group of fans. If Rangers hadn't been helped by a business person then the fans would defiantly have re-formed the club. The point I'm making is everything I said in my original post to you was fact. I didn't voice any opinions or make assumptions. Both clubs lost everything but their fanbase, yet both clubs survive. Therefore the club has to be the fans. 

58 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

If it was based purely on logic, everyone would support about 20 clubs in the world max- well I say the world, let's say spanning UK and the rest of Europe for the purposes of this.

Of course football doesn't abide by logic and I agree. The logic came with the discussion I've been having with robin unreliant

27 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

it was back down to 3 million last season

So what kind of losses in total? I believe, and I cannot emphasise enough that I'm happy to be proved wrong on this as I don't know it for sure, that he hasn't written off the debt we have to him, which over the last 15 years must be at least 50 million, but turned it into equity, and diminished the value of the shares owned by others. 

We have vastly greater facilities to generate non-matchday income now than 20 years ago, and we're still making a bigger loss. That tells me that our spending can and should be cut. An example: If I was picking the team and everyone was fit, my starting XI would be Fielding, Pisano, Baker, Flint, Bryan, O'Dowda, Smith, Pack, Paterson, Diedhiou, Reid. Most people would pick a team very similar to that. It also means that we have over £10 million of players, not playing. We lost to Preston on Tuesday who have a budget of probably a million tops, and they are now just one goal behind us. 

 

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3 hours ago, Loon plage said:

People aren't sheep and don't have to deprive BS of cash if they don't wish. Equally people aren't sheep and don't have to continue sucking up the BS coming out of the organisation either.

Nice to have a choice in such matters and fair play to whichever way people choose, 

As has been said on here before,  If the club are treating the fans as customers, then as a customer of BS and not fans,  supporters or what every you like to call yourself,  you have a perfect right to shop elsewhere and obtain value for money.

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