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Our transfer policy is FAILING us


Londoner

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26 minutes ago, spudski said:

1. Down to all the injuries we've had and then bans and players playing with niggles...and general fatigue.

2 What Plan B would you like to see implemented that would be so effective to guarantee winning of games with our current squad?

3 Which one's are those?

4 Have we? I'd say our LB position has been more of a worry.

5 You aren't going to coach players of that age better distribution.

6 It might have been disappointing from a fans perspective, but none of us are ofay to what arrangements were made for the future, funds and contracts.

I can't think of one team where every signing has been an instant hit.

Considering everything, I still think fans are being harsh when you consider the teams below us, so many with far bigger resources and experience. Especially after only two seasons up.

QPR, Norwich, Ipswich, Forest, Birmingham, Sunderland, Hull, Reading, Sheff Wed etc...all doing worse.

Then the likes of Derby on a worse run of form than us, No wins from 6...even Wolves 2 wins from 6.

It happens to the best of them.

Of course their can be improvements, but I think our season would have been even better if it wasn't for our injuries.

If training is preparation (and quite obviously it is for games) then you can improve distribution via working on passing patterns and footwork. There has been a clear emphasis on going longer  versus rolling the ball out, taking it on the back foot, playing out ...

Crossing/Free kicks. City are very good at elements - Corners!!

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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

And there's the rub - I know that the people that matter within the club all want to reach the PL but not necessarily this season because they think the club isn't yet ready for such a massive step up. 

Both MA and LJ have said that City "are a PL club in waiting"  and have been working on getting everything in place for that eventually. All the support services, the training facilities at Failand, the commercial staff etc etc.

If we get there this season thru the pray-offs then all well and good but as MA said recently " we are not chasing promotion" which is why the club didn't bring in any significant signings in the recent window.

Its all part of SLs long term strategy for our club and it all started with the redevelopment of AG.

Surely that's a contradiction:

When things are going very well: "we're a PL club in waiting."

Then as things go tits up: "we're not targetting promotion this season" because we're not ready.

 

Or at least a mixed message? Some of our fans are "morons" it says on here, so the communication from the club needds to be joined-up, on-message, and crystal clear. With not too much hype when things are going swimingly.

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42 minutes ago, spudski said:

1. Down to all the injuries we've had and then bans and players playing with niggles...and general fatigue.

2 What Plan B would you like to see implemented that would be so effective to guarantee winning of games with our current squad?

3 Which one's are those?

4 Have we? I'd say our LB position has been more of a worry.

5 You aren't going to coach players of that age better distribution.

6 It might have been disappointing from a fans perspective, but none of us are ofay to what arrangements were made for the future, funds and contracts.

I can't think of one team where every signing has been an instant hit.

Considering everything, I still think fans are being harsh when you consider the teams below us, so many with far bigger resources and experience. Especially after only two seasons up.

QPR, Norwich, Ipswich, Forest, Birmingham, Sunderland, Hull, Reading, Sheff Wed etc...all doing worse.

Then the likes of Derby on a worse run of form than us, No wins from 6...even Wolves 2 wins from 6.

It happens to the best of them.

Of course their can be improvements, but I think our season would have been even better if it wasn't for our injuries.

I agree with much of what you say here - regardless of the how the season finishes now, it's been a successful one, IMO, and shown progression under the current model. Especially when you at the money spent in this league and the big teams struggling below us.

As i've said elsewhere, I believe, privately, the club weren't going all out for promotion this year, simply put, I don't think they believe we as a club and a squad are ready yet. 

Going up, just to come down again with parachute payments is working for now with Burnley, but the danger of becoming a yo-yo club is a real one, Hull City and QPR for example are struggling in the championship now. Much better IMO go all out for promotion when the infrastructure is there and the squad is a group of premier league players in the waiting and use that momentum to establish yourself in the division. 

I do however think that this season and the Jan window in particular will have taught LJ a few lessons, and lessons I hope he remembers. To maintain the levels and intensity of play he expects, he needs more depth in quality than he currently has - he is going to need to learn to rotate, keep a larger squad happy, and have contingencies for the inevitable injuries and suspensions. I said a few weeks ago, except for Djuric we've had virtually no impact off the bench for months. 

You can make a case for each Jan signing - but you can argue there was, as @Red-Robbo wrote, a degree of complacency about our business. It was the bare minimum number of signings and all with an air of 'for the future' or a bit of a gamble. I said at the time I wondered if they had more of an eye on keeping players and perhaps that pre-occupied their consciousness....eitherway, that's partly why I believe the club were not 'all in' for promotion this year.

The problem with this is that now a lot of good will from the fans is quickly forgotten, as it feels like we'll go out with a whimper.  I can see why decisions were made, and hindsight is wonderful, but it's about learning lessons in the future, and another bad run like we've had has brought back the same questions, even though most can see the mitigating circumstances.

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6 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Surely that's a contradiction:

When things are going very well: "we're a PL club in waiting."

Then as things go tits up: "we're not targetting promotion this season" because we're not ready.

 

Or at least a mixed message? Some of our fans are "morons" it says on here, so the communication from the club needds to be joined-up, on-message, and crystal clear. With not too much hype when things are going swimingly.

I think we all know what is said publicly is not always in line with what is understood privately. 

Same at every club in the land to a certain extent.

The aim for us is promotion, when and at what cost though...

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6 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

I agree with much of what you say here - regardless of the how the season finishes now, it's been a successful one, IMO, and shown progression under the current model. Especially when you at the money spent in this league and the big teams struggling below us.

As i've said elsewhere, I believe, privately, the club weren't going all out for promotion this year, simply put, I don't think they believe we as a club and a squad are ready yet. 

Going up, just to come down again with parachute payments is working for now with Burnley, but the danger of becoming a yo-yo club is a real one, Hull City and QPR for example are struggling in the championship now. Much better IMO go all out for promotion when the infrastructure is there and the squad is group of premier league players in the waiting and use that momentum to establish yourself in the division. 

I do however think that this season and the Jan window in particular will have taught LJ a few lessons, and lessons I hope he remembers. To maintain the levels and intensity of play he expects, he needs more depth in quality than he currently has - he is going to need to learn to rotate and keep a larger squad happy. I said a few weeks ago, expect for Djuric we've had virtually no impact off the bench for months. 

You can make a case for each Jan signing - but you can argue there was, as @Red-Robbo wrote, a degree of complacency about our business. It was the bare minimum number of signings and all with an air of 'for the future' or a bit of a gamble. I said at the time I wondered if they had more of an eye on keeping players and perhaps that pre-occupied their consciousness....

The problem with this is that now a lot of good will from the fans is quickly forgotten, as it feels like we'll go out with a whimper.  I can see why decisions were made, and hindsight is wonderful, but it's about learning lessons in the future, and another bad run like we've had has brought back the same questions, even though most can see the mitigating circumstances.

Hi mate...I honestly believe our January window would have been different, if we could have done it differently.

We had to cut our cloth to suit.

We don't know what funds we have, who will be leaving in the Summer, what deals have already been 'agreed' for the summer, who was available, who we spoke to, who wanted to come here, who we could afford, and then take into account, all the players coming back from injury, and if we didn't go up, being left with a group of players that wouldn't even make the match day squad next season, taking up money, and hard to move on.

It's a catch 22, especially with so many injuries dictating.

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3 minutes ago, spudski said:

Hi mate...I honestly believe our January window would have been different, if we could have done it differently.

We had to cut our cloth to suit.

We don't know what funds we have, who will be leaving in the Summer, what deals have already been 'agreed' for the summer, who was available, who we spoke to, who wanted to come here, who we could afford, and then take into account, all the players coming back from injury, and if we didn't go up, being left with a group of players that wouldn't even make the match day squad next season, taking up money, and hard to move on.

It's a catch 22, especially with so many injuries dictating.

Absolutely - all valid points and details well beyond the average fan like me!

Always so much in play behind the scenes during the transfer windows - the summer will be an interesting one. 

And I for one, am glad, as @Davefevs thread pointed out, we haven't landed up, as you say, with someone like Cameron Jerome on £25k + a week for the next few years - seeing he's managed one goal in a Derby team sliding dangerously down the table.

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14 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Absolutely - all valid points and details well beyond the average fan like me!

Always so much in play behind the scenes during the transfer windows - the summer will be an interesting one. 

And I for one, am glad, as @Davefevs thread pointed out, we haven't landed up, as you say, with someone like Cameron Jerome on £25k + a week for the next few years - seeing he's managed one goal in a Derby team sliding dangerously down the table.

Exactly...I've enjoyed this season, and am still enjoying it, regardless of recent form. I try to see the reasons why it's happened, and for me it's been down to a culmination of many things. And without knowing everything, there is no point debating why we didn't bring in certain players as none of us are ofay with the internals at the club.

Frustrating maybe, but it is what it is.

I find it more frustrating when fans make out it's so easy to just change things and all will be good. It just doesn't work like that unfortunately.

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1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

If training is preparation (and quite obviously it is for games) then you can improve distribution via working on passing patterns and footwork. There has been a clear emphasis on going longer  versus rolling the ball out, taking it on the back foot, playing out ...

Crossing/Free kicks. City are very good at elements - Corners!!

Analysts and coaches. why dont City roll it out more often?

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On 10/03/2018 at 17:24, Londoner said:

Because I am well connected and know numerous football agents who represent both bristol city players and other championship players and management.

Over-inflated but not by 2018 standards also I know for fact that decision makers didn' want big names in the squad because he trusted the players already here. He felt they just needed a top up, he is being proven wrong.

 

 

You might have answered it already but I’ve not got the time to read them all! 

I’ve said before that I’ve felt a lack of ambition or understanding of the position we found ourselves in earlier on and that I’d suspected that promotion wasn’t wanted - at least at the time when it seemed possible.

I’d be interested to know who those decision makers were. Care to share?

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There are many views on our transfer policy in the January window but can anyone say honestly that we didn't need to recruit a RB?

Signing just that one player would have enabled LJ to rest and rotate his defenders and midfielders, giving them valuable rest and    would have negated the necessity to use midfield players as make shift RBs.

we didn't need to break the bank to do this,  but failed to do so.

Without knowing the ins and outs of the transfer window I think it is the single biggest reason for our current run of poor form.

I hope that at some time in the future (perhaps at season end) our honest manager will see fit to give us his take on the January transfer window, it might shut people like me up, but currently I find it inexcusable that the signing of a RB wasn't made.

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19 hours ago, Londoner said:

We do have the millions to spend, we just chose not to.

 

We do spend it but instead of 5 players at £25k per week we buy 10 at £12k

My job is what my name is on here and 3 times in the past 12 months clients have hired to fit budget rather than what's necessary to do an effective job. In each case I have refilled at 25% more salary than the first time around and hey presto they're getting the results!!!!!

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9 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

Brownhill excelled in the first half of the season. The jury's still out on O'Dowda's stats

Personal opinion but just before his injury O'Dowda was one of the first names on the team sheet, was in excellent form. 

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On 10/03/2018 at 21:30, Beni71 said:

We don’t have the millions to spend like the villas, Boros, wolves etc....

Why not? Our owner’s net worth is over £600 million more than Villa’s owner, it’s over £1.4 Billion more than ‘Boro’s owner....

Obviously Steve Lansdown can spend his money how he pleases....but to say we ‘don’t have the millions’ is clearly incorrect....

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2 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Or between those who look at the facts and the stats and those that simply have blind faith.

Of course, although it's what facts and stats you focus on that also determines your view. For me it's the fact that we're 7th in the table, have had a great cup run, have beaten more Prem sides that some Prem teams manage in a season, and all in a season I didn't expect us to finish much above half way.

It's simply 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty', and everyone will choose which they are. It just seems to me sometimes that on OTIB there are a lot of glass half empty people, and some of those also secretly hope that there's a leak at the bottom of the glass too.

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16 hours ago, Robbored said:

And there's the rub - I know that the people that matter within the club all want to reach the PL but not necessarily this season because they think the club isn't yet ready for such a massive step up. 

Both MA and LJ have said that City "are a PL club in waiting"  and have been working on getting everything in place for that eventually. All the support services, the training facilities at Failand, the commercial staff etc etc.

If we get there this season thru the pray-offs then all well and good but as MA said recently " we are not chasing promotion" which is why the club didn't bring in any significant signings in the recent window.

Its all part of SLs long term strategy for our club and it all started with the redevelopment of AG.

Carpe diem springs to mind. As does LJ's Christmas tweet 'if not now, then when?'

All very well but they will be in for a hell of a lot of flack if again we go 5, 6, 7, 10 years without getting close to promotion to the Prem again...

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On 10/03/2018 at 23:53, Harry said:

I would argue that our transfer policy has failed for a long time.  There have been so many players who we could have signed who would have been perfectly available and affordable at the time, but this club never had the foresight to take some gambles and go for it.
We are now seeing us begin to take gambles, but they are speculative gambles (i.e. Engvall, Magnus, Moore etc), rather than more educated ones.

Here is a rundown of our successes over the last 5 years :
Baker, Flint, Smith, Pack, Fielding.

These are the only players who we have signed in the last 5 years who have proven to be a relative success.
In those 5 years, we have spent nearly £30 million on players.

The following is a list of players currently playing with good capability in either Premier or Championship, all of whom would have been perfectly available to City in the last 5 years.  Sadly, the club didn't want to take the chance on these - all were playing at a level at the time where they would have been feasible, affordable and realistic targets, but we showed no interest (for various reasons depending on when it was) :

GK - Daniel Bentley, Christian Walton
DF - Connor Goldson, James Tarkowski, Alfie Mawson, Jack O'Connell, Enda Stevens, John Egan, Tendayi Darikwa
MF - Mark Pugh, Matt Ritchie, Conor Hourihane, Lee Evans, Jed Wallace, Ryan Woods, Eunan O'Kane, James Maddison, Josh Scowen, Jarrod Bowen
ST - Andre Gray, Scott Hogan, Ollie Watkins, Britt Assombalonga

There's a 23-man squad for you, which could have been assembled over the last 5 years at nowhere near the £30m we've spent in that time.  In fact, you're probably talking £10m outlay in total if these were timed right.  This squad would easily reach the Prem.

I'm afraid to say that over a number of years we have been too risk averse or too slow to react, even ponderous at times, and we've missed out on a lot of good players at what would have been very good value at the time.  It might sound far-fetched looking some of those players now, but believe me, before their moves to the current or one-but last clubs over the last 5 years, these were all perfectly realistic and affordable signings.  We are now taking speculative punts, and more expensive ones at that.

And everyone of those players you’ve named were a gamble, by their respective first clubs. I bet in five years time anyone could name another 23 gambles that have paid off. 

I bet if LJ said I’m going to sign a Britt Assombalonga from Braintree as out main striker this forum would be in meltdown. Peterborough are probably glad they did, but they was taking a gamble. 

We’ve taken gambles so maybe in the next five years we might be saying glad we did. 

The one that I think won’t pay off is Diony. I hope he proves me wrong but at this moment in time I can’t see it. 

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1 hour ago, italian dave said:

Of course, although it's what facts and stats you focus on that also determines your view. For me it's the fact that we're 7th in the table, have had a great cup run, have beaten more Prem sides that some Prem teams manage in a season, and all in a season I didn't expect us to finish much above half way.

It's simply 'glass half full' or 'glass half empty', and everyone will choose which they are. It just seems to me sometimes that on OTIB there are a lot of glass half empty people, and some of those also secretly hope that there's a leak at the bottom of the glass too.

Progression comes with learning from the mistakes of the past. LJ had a implosion at Barnsley and now two years running at City. Even the most optimistic supporter surely can't ignore that?

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3 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Don’t think so. Just questions as to whether he fits our style.

He certainly offers a different prospect for our opponents who get a little too comfortable  watching our lovely passing triangles in our own half .

He is another ' club ' in the bag .

He's a chaos creating player , like Freeman, Haynes, Goodridge... 

The opposition can never really settle when they have this type of player against them .

What I wouldn't give to have a young Alan Walsh in our team . 

 

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36 minutes ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Progression comes with learning from the mistakes of the past. LJ had a implosion at Barnsley and now two years running at City. Even the most optimistic supporter surely can't ignore that?

I don't believe that recent results have been an 'implosion': it's  run of bad form certainly, but pretty much what every club has at some point, and certainly not in the ten straight defeats realm of form as at Barnsley and last season with us. 

As I've said elsewhere, on this thread I think, in the current form table (last six games) we're 14th, two places below Wolves, three below Preston and well above Derby. 

Earlier in the season we were getting the rub of the green and won a few points we perhaps didn't deserve, last few games things have been going the other way. We played well at Preston - a game I really enjoyed - and deserved more than we got. We battled against Cardiff and almost got a point there (can't say I enjoyed that one though!). We struggled on a crap pitch and a day when normally reliable players decided to have an off day at Burton. We looked very impressive against Wednesday, and we've been just about the only team to take anything from Fulham in weeks, another game that was a great one to watch. Your average up and down season.

As I said earlier, it's glass half full etc: you can choose to ignore the good spells we've had this season as a whole and focus on the poor spells. But the fact is that we're currently in 7th place in a hugely strong league. And if you want an example of what can happen when the glass half empty view sees 7th place as failure and requiring a change of manager then look no further than Birmingham! 

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14 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Why not? Our owner’s net worth is over £600 million more than Villa’s owner, it’s over £1.4 Billion more than ‘Boro’s owner....

Obviously Steve Lansdown can spend his money how he pleases....but to say we ‘don’t have the millions’ is clearly incorrect....

Well, it is correct: I know what you're saying - but as you've acknowledged SL can choose and he has made it clear that his choice is that he wants City to become self sustaining and that he's therefore not prepared to pump silly amounts of millions into the club - so we don't have all his money at our disposal.

Also, it's not just about the wealth of owners, its also about FFP - Villa, Wolves, Boro all have massive parachute payments that put them in a different spending league, within FFP rules, than us.

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4 hours ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Or between those who look at the facts and the stats and those that simply have blind faith.

 

1 hour ago, Cheesleysmate said:

Progression comes with learning from the mistakes of the past. LJ had a implosion at Barnsley and now two years running at City. Even the most optimistic supporter surely can't ignore that?

Here's some facts and stats for you:

2012/13 - RELEGATED

2013/14 - League One 12th

2014/15 - League One 1st

2015/16 - Championship 18th

2016/17 - Championship 17th

2017/18 - Championship 7th (plus League Cup semi final).

Which part of that doesn't sound like progression to you?  Which part demands "blind faith" to believe that this is a club on an upward curve?

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On 11/03/2018 at 07:51, Redrascal2 said:

Why would you need hindsight to know that Johnson's signings in January were poor. Three players with no experience of Championship football and two of which no real experience of senior football.  Plus a failure to address problem areas of the team that were clear for all to see. And Johnson stated he was pleased with his signings.  We are supposed to put up with this because we are not a Wolves or a Villa. Why. A bad signing is a bad signing whatever pool you are fishing in. And Johnson is racking them up too frequently.

That isn't exactly true. Kent played 44 games in the Championship for Barnsley and was their young player of the year, he also played in the Bundesliga. Diony has played over 100 games of senior football in France like Kodjia and Diedhiou who have worked out pretty well. The Walsh signing was obviously one for the future and was highly thought of by Everton fans. You do need hindsight because most people thought these were great signings at the time. 

It's easy to say that we should have recruited better, but how many players with experience and ambition are actually available at that time of year? 

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21 minutes ago, roadyred said:

That isn't exactly true. Kent played 44 games in the Championship for Barnsley and was their young player of the year, he also played in the Bundesliga. Diony has played over 100 games of senior football in France like Kodjia and Diedhiou who have worked out pretty well. The Walsh signing was obviously one for the future and was highly thought of by Everton fans. You do need hindsight because most people thought these were great signings at the time. 

It's easy to say that we should have recruited better, but how many players with experience and ambition are actually available at that time of year? 

Are you suggesting that the reason we recruited badly in January was because there were not enough players available with experience and ambition? Why cannot it ever be the fault of those paid very good money to recruit players for our club.

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3 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

Are you suggesting that the reason we recruited badly in January was because there were not enough players available with experience and ambition? Why cannot it ever be the fault of those paid very good money to recruit players for our club.

2

I think my original point was that at the time I didn't think we had recruited badly. I felt we had signed 3 decent players that would fit with the squad and provide the push for the next step. I didn't feel like we had missed out on anyone. With the benefit of hindsight it obviously hasn't worked out yet. I also think that with Pisano, Diedhiou, O'Dowda, Djuric and O'Neil as long-term injuries to return it was like having 5 new signings coming into the team so lessened the desire to sign too many players.

I don't really know who else they could have signed? and yes I do think the January window is quite limited. Generally, there seems to be little value as teams do not want to sell their in-form players so you end up paying over the odds (Madine, Hugill) or taking a punt on players who haven't played, or played well since August that teams want to ship out. 

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