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Price of the pressing game.


barneyrubble

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15 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Really appreciate your insight.

From my view when we play poorly I always think we look "strung out".  Your comments above explain why (I think).

This is very simplistic but here are three passing maps. All are BCFC.

image.png.8320e115117432d4f8fd6461c1928136.png

Away v Burton

image.png.5106d13dd34d5a3e299419e9bb090514.png

Home v Wednesday

image.png.7f18af1e697c04abbeabc60fd2c05cd4.png

Away v Cardiff.

There are two wildly different Bristol City's playing there. One is compact, two are not. Its a theme over months. The team has no consistent style game to game.

The intent is different. That intent affects the team offensively and defensively. 

As posters have observed the last map you cannot press behind. The press is not the reason for City's poor form. 

 

 

 

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On 11/03/2018 at 09:44, chinapig said:

If you watch them play you will see they also conserve energy with periods of slowing the game down and passing the ball around at walking pace.

It helps of course that they don't give the ball away easily, which means they don't waste energy winning it back. Not a standard of ball retention we can achieve I fear.

We can actually- to a point.

At times we've been hitting passing accuracy of mid 70's and perhaps even 80% - sometimes even more than that this season- that enables a fine opportunity, at this level to retain and slow down the tempo a bit. Not on a Man City or a Barcelona level, but when we do and have played with those levels of passing accuracy, it provides scope to do this.

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On 11/03/2018 at 07:53, CotswoldRed said:

Man City play a high pressing game without fatigue. 

Our players are less talented, of course, but physiologically no different.

I think it's an easy excuse to make for them. Managers have studied us and worked out how to nullify us. It's now our hand to play and we're not sure what to do. 

 

Man City have a massive squad full of depth and quality. They also play 8 less league games and use youth a lot in cups to minimalise impact later in the season. There is also the fact you have some fo the worlds best athletes in their teams along with the best physio teams money can buy.

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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We can actually- to a point.

At times we've been hitting passing accuracy of mid 70's and perhaps even 80% this season- that enables a fine opportunity, at this level to retain and slow down the tempo a bit. Not on a Man City or a Barcelona level, but when we do and have played with those levels of passing accuracy, it gives scope to do this.

Bristol City have had passing accuracies well into the 80% + this season. Players in some games have been at 90% +. And of course it has been lower. 

If Bristol City have players of this high ability, that can be the condition for recruitment instead of being defensive, or fast and big etc. Technical enables the team to play faster v teams that sit in.

It also allows the team to press energetically lost possession in units. Lee Johnson has alluded to a six second frenzy, @Bob Bob Super Bob post mentions first and second passes that is Barcelonas six second press, Man City's press ... It is not constant, you choose triggers to work off and if not successful drop back into shape to screen quickly.

The above saves legs, does not lead to more injury, its intermittent, its seconds, not constant.

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2 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Bristol City have had passing accuracies well into the 80% + this season. Players in some games have been at 90% +. And of courseit has been lower .. 

If Bristol City have players of this high ability, that can be the condition for recruitment instead of being defensive, hard blah etc this enables the team to play faster v teams that sit in. 

It also allows the team to press energetically lost possession in units. Lee Johnson has alluded to a six second frenzy, @Bob Bob Super Bob post mentions first and second passes that is Barcelonas six second press, Man City's press ... It is not constant, you choose triggers to work off and if not successful drop back into shape to screen quickly.

The above does not drain legs, lead to more injury, its intermittent, its seconds not constant.

Even better then! I just did a quick skim of varied games and a quick average and went off there. I will bow to your superior statistical knowledge in this regard.

Agreed. Speed up the tempo, the ball circulation- one of the reasons I advocated Hegeler as one of the centre backs in a back 4 in certain games, an example of which was Burton at home where they just sat right in- in those games, seconds can count, maybe a quick pass from the back before they have funnelled fully into position- ones where we will boss the ball and dictate in its entirety the tempo, he definitely would have been worth looking at IMO- can't remember if he was injured at this point though.

Yes, agreed. Resting in possession at times, the 6 second press- and quick drop-off into shape to screen quickly.

Agreed- it's about knowing when to press, how to press- but not a constant intense workload.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Even better then! I just did a quick skim of varied games and a quick average and went off there. I will bow to your superior statistical knowledge in this regard.

Agreed. Speed up the tempo, the ball circulation- one of the reasons I advocated Hegeler as one of the centre backs in a back 4 in certain games, an example of which was Burton at home where they just sat right in- in those games, seconds can count, maybe a quick pass from the back before they have funnelled fully into position- ones where we will boss the ball and dictate in its entirety the tempo, he definitely would have been worth looking at IMO- can't remember if he was injured at this point though.

Yes, agreed. Resting in possession at times, the 6 second press- and quick drop-off into shape to screen quickly.

Agreed- it's about knowing when to press, how to press- but not a constant intense workload.

Burton at home was not a case of throw the ideals away. It not they worked us out. Its they were scared of opening up v a superior team. So how do you beat it? You have answered it. Keep your identity and improve it. 

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17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We can actually- to a point.

At times we've been hitting passing accuracy of mid 70's and perhaps even 80% - sometimes even more than that this season- that enables a fine opportunity, at this level to retain and slow down the tempo a bit. Not on a Man City or a Barcelona level, but when we do and have played with those levels of passing accuracy, it provides scope to do this.

 

17 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Even better then! I just did a quick skim of varied games and a quick average and went off there. I will bow to your superior statistical knowledge in this regard.

Agreed. Speed up the tempo, the ball circulation- one of the reasons I advocated Hegeler as one of the centre backs in a back 4 in certain games, an example of which was Burton at home where they just sat right in- in those games, seconds can count, maybe a quick pass from the back before they have funnelled fully into position- ones where we will boss the ball and dictate in its entirety the tempo, he definitely would have been worth looking at IMO- can't remember if he was injured at this point though.

Yes, agreed. Resting in possession at times, the 6 second press- and quick drop-off into shape to screen quickly.

Agreed- it's about knowing when to press, how to press- but not a constant intense workload.

Magnússon at CB has had 93% but according to some on otib he is crap. Fielding has been below 30% but according to some on otib he is very good. agree about Hegeler or something similar this might be a bit too progressive this football. heads would explode!!!

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8 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

 

Magnússon at CB has had 93% but according to some on otib he is crap. Fielding has been below 30% but according to some on otib he is very good. 

Slightly off topic but the issue some fans have with Hörður is that he seems error prone. Three errors spring to mind that led to City conceding. 

To me he always looked flustered when in possession but obviously with around 90% he's actually not flustered at all.

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31 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I like Mags, but based on what is most important, i.e. what we see on a matchday and indeed on a secondary level, on stats I have looked at, cannot believe he has 93% passing accuracy.

I can believe he is one of our top 2 players who can play CB when it comes to distribution, but not at those numbers!

Has HAD 93% at CB v Weds not every game. same as Fielding has gone below 30% but also has been a lot higher. you were making a great point about ball circulation and distribution. Magnússon does distribute it well at CB not so good at FB. square peg round holes!!

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On 11/03/2018 at 07:53, CotswoldRed said:

Man City play a high pressing game without fatigue. 

Our players are less talented, of course, but physiologically no different.

I think it's an easy excuse to make for them. Managers have studied us and worked out how to nullify us. It's now our hand to play and we're not sure what to do. 

 

Man City hold on to the ball when they have it.

We press like mad, win the ball, then give it away again. No wonder it's tiring.

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5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Slightly off topic but the issue some fans have with Hörður is that he seems error prone. Three errors spring to mind that led to City conceding. 

To me he always looked flustered when in possession but obviously with around 90% he's actually not flustered at all.

It can be perception, and our own bias. We have ideas and beliefs, some we believe to be true, and turn out not to be.

A modern idea of defenders is that our view of them should be reframed. If you cannot keep the ball you are not a good defender.

Man City are topical ... They play themselves out of trouble. That is the intent. The psychology of it is that error has to be accepted as part of the intent. People have a view of John Stones as being poor at defending, he has one of the highest pass completion accuracies in Europe =   His odd aberration is completely outweighed by his passing = He is a brilliant defender.

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On 11/03/2018 at 08:45, Barney red said:

Runners wouldn't run 3 10k races a week for a sustained period without some drop in performance the recovery and squad rotation is vital to keeping going.

...taking in excess of 90 minutes to complete each of those 10ks, including a 15 minute tea break half way through is hardly olympic standard.

Fat Mildred betters that at the local Race for Life.

Man up city.

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