Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 There is no denying we are on another shocking run of form. It’s got me thinking that this team, this squad, and that it is too confidence and momentum reliant. I know you can talk about a collection of issues, injures, suspensions, loss of form, January transfer window, a new RB, at questionable tactics and substitutions. Some say it’s even something fundamentally wrong with LJ’s coaching. But I just can’t help thinking that a team that swings so violently from promotion form to relegation form within a season, now twice in a row, clearly has a confidence, a mental strength issue. Full of confidence when they have momentum, but full of self-doubt when things don’t happen easily. That may be because they don’t walk on the pitch right now with confidence, or with a plan - the managers fault. Or that may be that they walk onto the pitch with confidence and a plan, but lose that confidence if things don’t go to plan - players mental strength and adaptability. So why can’t we put the plan in place? If LJ is to be believed, after the Cardiff game for example, he said that he didn’t want the players to go out and play long balls, but have more courage. Is it LJ’s job to give them the courage to play to the best of their ability? Think about all the leads we’ve thrown away in the last two season - yes you can apportion tactical blame - but eventually you have to look at the mental strength of players who are crumbling under the pressure. Anyway, back to my first point - leadership. I’m sure most of us have been part of a team of some sort that adds up to a greater sum of it’s part when it pulls together. In order to do that, you need multiple leaders, and different types of leaders. I just wonder how many ‘real’ leaders we have. And I’m not just talking screaming and shouting. I’m talking, who organises, who lifts, calms and reassures when things aren’t going to plan? Who is vocal tactically - Korey, Wright? Who is a leader by example - Flint, Bobby? But for me, beyond that, you’ve got a core that Maggers, Bryan, Paterson, Brownhill, Famara - arguably are more like “sheep”. I think this is one of the draw backs of having a young team and squad - look at wolves right now - one of the youngest teams in the division - tons of ability, but it gets to the business end of the season and all these young heads start to doubt and don’t have the experience to deal with the pressure. And the defeats roll in. Eitherway - if I were LJ and MA - I would be looking very hard this summer for players who bring experience and mental leadership. Tough to find. A team of winners. Otherwise I don’t think this squad can progress in the way they should with the ability we clearly have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 We lack the player Gary O'Neill was supposed to be. An instrumental central midfielder with a waste of PL experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head&Shoulders Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Personally wouldn't say a lack of leaders, more along the lines of... as Troy Deeney once said "lack of canojies" our ability to crumble under pressure is brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head&Shoulders Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 Cajonies* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Head&Shoulders said: Cajonies* Cajones . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, Head&Shoulders said: Personally wouldn't say a lack of leaders, more along the lines of... as Troy Deeney once said "lack of canojies" our ability to crumble under pressure is brilliant Agree with this. Which is where the experience element, and lack of, comes into it even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head&Shoulders Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Major Isewater said: Cajones . Yeah that one haha. 1 hour ago, Alessandro said: Agree with this. Which is where the experience element, and lack of, comes into it even more. Definitely, couple signings and we will be the real deal IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 I personally think Bailey Wright is a very strange choice to be Captain. That said of course we don’t see him ‘behind the scenes’ as such and he maybe brilliant. I have spoke to h8m several times and he’s very laid back, and seems a great bloke so I’m in no way slagging him off as a person. Flint is always going over to LeeJ and conveying orders, very often Flint will go and get instruction straight after we scored, only later joining in with the celebrations. Has anyone else seen this. Yesterday Lee was bellowing at Bailey who eventually went over to him during a break in play. They spoke for a while but Bailey looked like he couldn’t wait to get away, it looked like he passed maybe an energy bar to Pisano, but didn’t seem to do any organising, and boy did we need it. Korey out other Captain type had such a shocking game yesterday that he couldn’t organise himself never mind anyone else. We still badly miss Wade Elliott, and as someone says above GoN was meant to be that person. That crashed and burned, at least on the pitch. Maybe the answer is a player who hasn’t joined us yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 11 hours ago, Alessandro said: ....I think this is one of the draw backs of having a young team and squad - look at wolves right now - one of the youngest teams in the division - tons of ability, but it gets to the business end of the season and all these young heads start to doubt and don’t have the experience to deal with the pressure. And the defeats roll in.... We need to put this myth to bed, we haven’t got a ‘young team and squad’ - the average age of our squad is over 26 years...to be more specific: Frank Fielding is 29 Luke Steele is 33 Aden Flint is 28 Korey Smith is 27 Eros Pisano is 30 Bailey Wright is 25 Bobby Reid is 25 Hordour Magnússon is 25 Marlon Pack is 26 Jens Hegeler is 30 Jamie Paterson is 26 Famara Diédhiou is 25 Milan Djuric is 27 Matty Taylor is 26 Gary O’Neil is 34 This ain’t a young “team/squad” in football terms....and the average age of the Wolves squad is under 25... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Alessandro said: Agree with this. Which is where the experience element, and lack of, comes into it even more. Sorry fella this is not a 'young group' despite what LJ says. Average age is 25 which in football terms, whilst not veterans is certainly not a young group. That excuse, which is being used after every game is 'fake' news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 37 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: We need to put this myth to bed, we haven’t got a ‘young team and squad’ - the average age of our squad is over 26 years...to be more specific: Frank Fielding is 29 Luke Steele is 33 Aden Flint is 28 Korey Smith is 27 Eros Pisano is 30 Bailey Wright is 25 Bobby Reid is 25 Hordour Magnússon is 25 Marlon Pack is 26 Jens Hegeler is 30 Jamie Paterson is 26 Famara Diédhiou is 25 Milan Djuric is 27 Matty Taylor is 26 Gary O’Neil is 34 This ain’t a young “team/squad” in football terms....and the average age of the Wolves squad is under 25... I'm not so sure it is a myth - if it is around 26, that's only 1 older than Wolves. The highest in the division is around 30, Derby and Burton, I believe. So we are closer to the younger teams than older teams. Either way it doesn't really matter, I'm only talking age in respect to experience - especially experience at this level. That is to say, when the going gets tough, things aren't coming off like they were earlier in the season, experience and games played helps you get through the rough patches. Help you keep belief. And 3 goal leads. My point is being proved by Wolves right now - 12-14 points clear and suddenly a very expensive and talented young team have hit the brakes and are now only 3 points ahead. Perhaps it's that lack of experience and mental strength i'm talking about playing a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alessandro said: I'm not so sure it is a myth - if it is around 26, that's only 1 older than Wolves. The highest in the division is around 30, Derby and Burton, I believe. So we are closer to the younger teams than older teams. Either way it doesn't really matter, I'm only talking age in respect to experience - especially experience at this level. That is to say, when the going gets tough, things aren't coming off like they were earlier in the season, experience and games played helps you get through the rough patches. Help you keep belief. And 3 goal leads. My point is being proved by Wolves right now - 12-14 points clear and suddenly a very expensive and talented young team have hit the brakes and are now only 3 points ahead. Perhaps it's that lack of experience and mental strength i'm talking about playing a part. Rounding it up is cheeky! The average age of Burton’s squad is under 28 years and the average age of Derby’s squad is 28 years...not much older than ours then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottishRed Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Alessandro said: I'm not so sure it is a myth - if it is around 26, that's only 1 older than Wolves. The highest in the division is around 30, Derby and Burton, I believe. So we are closer to the younger teams than older teams. Either way it doesn't really matter, I'm only talking age in respect to experience - especially experience at this level. That is to say, when the going gets tough, things aren't coming off like they were earlier in the season, experience and games played helps you get through the rough patches. Help you keep belief. And 3 goal leads. My point is being proved by Wolves right now - 12-14 points clear and suddenly a very expensive and talented young team have hit the brakes and are now only 3 points ahead. Perhaps it's that lack of experience and mental strength i'm talking about playing a part. Yeah fair points. I think the problem in this area, and it's far from the only problem, is not experience but strength of character or , as you put it mental strength. A large part of that comes from within, regardless of age, and that should be a key part of the much vaunted 'DNA' we are so often told about. I am not suggesting that the squad lacks that 'steel', it was shown in abundance earlier this season - I suggest that an overconfidence emerged after the cup run due to the media and the plaudits that were going around, add that to LJ's tendency to go on bad runs as an Head Coach and we are not far from an explanation of where we are at. I also think that MA's alledged comments regarding promotion created a feeling in the squad that they had done all that was required this season. But for some on here that is OK, as next Xmas we will be right up there and all the 'ones for the future' will be ripping this league up......... And if not, we certainly will be the season after............... Or maybe the one after that.......... #missedopportunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: Rounding it up is cheeky! The average age of Burton’s squad is under 28 years and the average age of Derby’s squad is 28 years...not much older than ours then.... I was going on highest average starting line ups! Which is more accurate. Lower end is around 23/24, upper end 30/31. Look of that list you gave - only 1 of the 4 players named over 30 has played any notable games for us in the league. Pisano. And he's been out for months. You named only 5 players over 28, which is about bang in the middle. And you missed out: Bryan - 24. O'Dowda - 22. Eliasson - 22. Walsh - 20. Kent - 21. Kelly - 19. I never said we were the youngest, but by comparison with the rest of the league, it's nearer the younger end of the list than the oldest, by the looks of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alessandro said: I was going on highest average starting line ups! Which is more accurate. Lower end is around 23/24, upper end 30/31. Look of that list you gave - only 1 of the 4 players named over 30 has played any notable games for us in the league. Pisano. And he's been out for months. You named only 5 players over 28, which is about bang in the middle. And you missed out: Bryan - 24. O'Dowda - 22. Eliasson - 22. Walsh - 20. Kent - 21. Kelly - 19. I never said we were the youngest, but by comparison with the rest of the league, it's nearer the younger end of the list than the oldest, by the looks of things. And those ‘young’ players you’ve listed (except Bryan) have played/started very minimal amounts of games for us this season, hardly any... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 @Alessandro @BS4 on Tour... It’s not a myth though. At the turn of the year, we have the 4th youngest average age for the minutes played by each player. https://experimental361.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2017-12-31-ch.png You have to look at the distribution of average ages across the league, 23.7 to 29.5, you’ll see this is a league where we are comparatively young. I think the issue is trying to correlate it to results / league position. If I could remember how to do my Spearman Rank Correlation, I would be surprised if it came out anything other than weak. For your Wolves and Preston being young, you have your Villa and Derby being old. Ultimately good players irrespective of age win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityFarAndWide Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 hours ago, RedM said: I personally think Bailey Wright is a very strange choice to be Captain. That said of course we don’t see him ‘behind the scenes’ as such and he maybe brilliant. I have spoke to h8m several times and he’s very laid back, and seems a great bloke so I’m in no way slagging him off as a person. Flint is always going over to LeeJ and conveying orders, very often Flint will go and get instruction straight after we scored, only later joining in with the celebrations. Has anyone else seen this. Yesterday Lee was bellowing at Bailey who eventually went over to him during a break in play. They spoke for a while but Bailey looked like he couldn’t wait to get away, it looked like he passed maybe an energy bar to Pisano, but didn’t seem to do any organising, and boy did we need it. Korey out other Captain type had such a shocking game yesterday that he couldn’t organise himself never mind anyone else. We still badly miss Wade Elliott, and as someone says above GoN was meant to be that person. That crashed and burned, at least on the pitch. Maybe the answer is a player who hasn’t joined us yet. My view of it was Wright was made captain as flint was seen as on his way out and his appointment was prior to Baker coming in; hindsight makes it look an odder pick than it may of actually been Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 11 minutes ago, ScottishRed said: Yeah fair points. I think the problem in this area, and it's far from the only problem, is not experience but strength of character or , as you put it mental strength. A large part of that comes from within, regardless of age, and that should be a key part of the much vaunted 'DNA' we are so often told about. Agreed - I think that's my point really, it's not just about age. I am not suggesting that the squad lacks that 'steel', it was shown in abundance earlier this season - I suggest that an overconfidence emerged after the cup run due to the media and the plaudits that were going around, add that to LJ's tendency to go on bad runs as an Head Coach and we are not far from an explanation of where we are at. I also think that MA's alledged comments regarding promotion created a feeling in the squad that they had done all that was required this season. It's all been discussed at length, i'm sure it's a combination of many things, you can't pinpoint to one factor. It's so easy to lose momentum in football, but so hard to create. But for some on here that is OK, as next Xmas we will be right up there and all the 'ones for the future' will be ripping this league up......... And if not, we certainly will be the season after............... Or maybe the one after that.......... #missedopportunity I'm more optimistic than you - as i've said before, I see the 'plan' and it makes sense to me. IMO we haven't missed an opportunity because a season is played over 9 months, not 4. It's crazy to think had we gone out in Jan and spent big that would have mean't we stayed in 2nd regardless. This squad will be largely the same next season. We may lose Flint or Bryan. Maybe Reid. They'll be missed for sure, but we'll have £40m + from selling them to re-invest in the team, the core of which will remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: And those ‘young’ players you’ve listed (except Bryan) have played/started very minimal amounts of games for us this season, hardly any... Well I was just putting them there, given you missed them out, and used 4 players in their 30's that have played very minimal amounts this season too to make your point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Alessandro said: Well I was just putting them there, given you missed them out, and used 4 players in their 30's that have played very minimal amounts this season too to make your point! The average age of our squad is over 26 - you said we had a ‘young team and squad’ - we haven’t... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted March 11, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Davefevs said: @Alessandro @BS4 on Tour... It’s not a myth though. At the turn of the year, we have the 4th youngest average age for the minutes played by each player. https://experimental361.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2017-12-31-ch.png You have to look at the distribution of average ages across the league, 23.7 to 29.5, you’ll see this is a league where we are comparatively young. I think the issue is trying to correlate it to results / league position. If I could remember how to do my Spearman Rank Correlation, I would be surprised if it came out anything other than weak. For your Wolves and Preston being young, you have your Villa and Derby being old. Ultimately good players irrespective of age win games. 2 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: The average age of our squad is over 26 - you said we had a ‘young team and squad’ - we haven’t... See above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Davefevs said: @Alessandro @BS4 on Tour... It’s not a myth though. At the turn of the year, we have the 4th youngest average age for the minutes played by each player. https://experimental361.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2017-12-31-ch.png You have to look at the distribution of average ages across the league, 23.7 to 29.5, you’ll see this is a league where we are comparatively young. I think the issue is trying to correlate it to results / league position. If I could remember how to do my Spearman Rank Correlation, I would be surprised if it came out anything other than weak. For your Wolves and Preston being young, you have your Villa and Derby being old. Ultimately good players irrespective of age win games. The average age of our squad is over 26 - I was replying to a post by @Alessandro that said we had a ‘young team and squad’... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alessandro said: See above Nothing ‘above’ disproves the average age of our ‘young team and squad’ being over 26.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 11, 2018 Report Share Posted March 11, 2018 1 minute ago, BS4 on Tour... said: The average age of our squad is over 26 - I was replying to a post by @Alessandro that said we had a ‘young team and squad’... It is younger in terms of its position in the distribution of averages ages across the division. The materiality of that is doubtful. What would be interesting is if you could add in total appearances of all of those players at this level or above (factoring in comparable leagues), you might have something that shows age/experience. I wonder if that might show anything different. @Robin TBW a task / challenge for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Head&Shoulders said: Yeah that one haha. Definitely, couple signings and we will be the real deal IMO Hmm.. being semi critical of the side (with a positive outlook) in this way is exactly how a Bristol Sport employee trying to look convincing would post.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gert Mare Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 21 hours ago, Alessandro said: There is no denying we are on another shocking run of form. It’s got me thinking that this team, this squad, and that it is too confidence and momentum reliant. I know you can talk about a collection of issues, injures, suspensions, loss of form, January transfer window, a new RB, at questionable tactics and substitutions. Some say it’s even something fundamentally wrong with LJ’s coaching. But I just can’t help thinking that a team that swings so violently from promotion form to relegation form within a season, now twice in a row, clearly has a confidence, a mental strength issue. Full of confidence when they have momentum, but full of self-doubt when things don’t happen easily. That may be because they don’t walk on the pitch right now with confidence, or with a plan - the managers fault. Or that may be that they walk onto the pitch with confidence and a plan, but lose that confidence if things don’t go to plan - players mental strength and adaptability. So why can’t we put the plan in place? If LJ is to be believed, after the Cardiff game for example, he said that he didn’t want the players to go out and play long balls, but have more courage. Is it LJ’s job to give them the courage to play to the best of their ability? Think about all the leads we’ve thrown away in the last two season - yes you can apportion tactical blame - but eventually you have to look at the mental strength of players who are crumbling under the pressure. Anyway, back to my first point - leadership. I’m sure most of us have been part of a team of some sort that adds up to a greater sum of it’s part when it pulls together. In order to do that, you need multiple leaders, and different types of leaders. I just wonder how many ‘real’ leaders we have. And I’m not just talking screaming and shouting. I’m talking, who organises, who lifts, calms and reassures when things aren’t going to plan? Who is vocal tactically - Korey, Wright? Who is a leader by example - Flint, Bobby? But for me, beyond that, you’ve got a core that Maggers, Bryan, Paterson, Brownhill, Famara - arguably are more like “sheep”. I think this is one of the draw backs of having a young team and squad - look at wolves right now - one of the youngest teams in the division - tons of ability, but it gets to the business end of the season and all these young heads start to doubt and don’t have the experience to deal with the pressure. And the defeats roll in. Eitherway - if I were LJ and MA - I would be looking very hard this summer for players who bring experience and mental leadership. Tough to find. A team of winners. Otherwise I don’t think this squad can progress in the way they should with the ability we clearly have. Yes, and physical strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 I've thought all season that City lack enough cultural architects in the team. Only Pack offers that kind if leadership and occasionally Flint leads by example rather than vocally. Although Wright is captain I don't notice him barking orders/instructions at the rest of the team. Its a difficult task to find a player with the leadership skills of someone like Scot Parker for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 14 hours ago, Davefevs said: @Alessandro @BS4 on Tour... It’s not a myth though. At the turn of the year, we have the 4th youngest average age for the minutes played by each player. https://experimental361.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/2017-12-31-ch.png You have to look at the distribution of average ages across the league, 23.7 to 29.5, you’ll see this is a league where we are comparatively young. I think the issue is trying to correlate it to results / league position. If I could remember how to do my Spearman Rank Correlation, I would be surprised if it came out anything other than weak. For your Wolves and Preston being young, you have your Villa and Derby being old. Ultimately good players irrespective of age win games. Great post, great stats. Is your Spearman Rank Correlation a thing you should be doing in public though?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBW Posted March 12, 2018 Report Share Posted March 12, 2018 16 hours ago, Davefevs said: It is younger in terms of its position in the distribution of averages ages across the division. The materiality of that is doubtful. What would be interesting is if you could add in total appearances of all of those players at this level or above (factoring in comparable leagues), you might have something that shows age/experience. I wonder if that might show anything different. @Robin TBW a task / challenge for you I do basketball. Only have to worry about five players a time then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.