were you going to Russia?and now changed your mind?

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

It is your prerogative to ignore the advice if you wish to do so. However, when you ignore the people pointing out you are unknowingly posting anti-Semitic things on the internet and continue to post them anyway, you become a person who is deliberately and knowingly posting anti-Semitic things on the internet. Which is your choice. But my advice would then be to grow used to being called anti-Semitic as that is the word people tend to use for people deliberately and knowingly posting anti-Semitic things on the internet. 

But I haven't posted anything anti-semitic, whether knowingly or not, so I don't really see your point.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

23 hours ago, Chappers said:

So the Press can vilify JC about a phoney Czech connection, but ignore this rank hypocrisy. Exact figure according to the Times is £826,100. If the Tories are so concerned about UK citizens, maybe they should look at number of deaths and suicides caused by their DWP sanctions.

Like Tom Watson and Max Moseley's money? 50k wasn't it? or Corby's 5 appearances on Iranian state TV where he was paid 5K a pop personally?.

[LondonBristolian]

24 minutes ago, Harry said:

But I haven't posted anything anti-semitic, whether knowingly or not, so I don't really see your point.

I think you've successfully proved the "unknowing" part. However conspiracies about the Rothschild Family go back years, are pretty much the template for anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and are pretty much wholly based on the fictional anti-Jewish propaganda document the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Earlier in this thread, you claimed that Russia are one of the few countries without a Rothschild owned central bank. There are of course several problems with this:

a) The Rothschilds do not own all or indeed most Central banks. In fact, I don't think there is a single country where there is substantial evidence that Rothschilds own the Central Bank.

b) Most central banks are not privately owned. The US is unusual in that the Federal reserve is owned by a number of banks. The Rothschilds may well be significant shareholders in this but so are various other banks.

c) The Rothschilds' banking company holds assets of about £50 billion. By contrast, Goldman Sachs holds assets of 916 billion. You'd need assets of £1.9 trillion to be in the top ten biggest banks in the world. The Rothschilds are nowhere near as wealthy as they were and certainly not wealthy enough to contorl the global banking system. It is very hard to see a reason why people think they do, beyond that they are a Jewish family and it nicely fits in with global anti-Semitic conspiracy theories that claim Jewish people are secretly financing and running the world. 

Posting that the Rothschilds are secretly controlling the world's finances, when they very patently do not have the assets or resources to do so, is regurgitating anti-Semitism.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

1 hour ago, Harry said:

No probs havana. The following is good for starters.

Evidence of US funding for "democracy" in Ukraine - from the horses mouth.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37599.htm

Article exploring US involvement in Ukraine - a democratically elected government turns away from the West and looks East instead, suddenly finds itself in a "peoples revolution" with a US Senator on the streets whipping it up and claiming "we're with you".  Who the hell gave McCain the right to do that?  If we had people on the streets protesting against our government for the provision of arms to Saudi against Yemen, would we appreciate a leading Iranian politician to join them and cry "Iran is with you".
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

A history of election meddling from the US.  It's a regular thing, Ukraine was no different.  Just as Syria is no different too.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/americas-long-history-of-meddling-in-other-countries-elections

Video with plenty of evidence with sources confirming that the US were very much "in bed" with far-right neo-nazi's, whom they placed into power.

 

Harry

YOU ARE SOOOOO gullible!!! If you think you can get your political facts from YouTube then you're not just daft- you're stupid.

A taped conversation of an Estonian politician with a person of little consequence- neither of whom are Ukranian and commented on by an American conspiracy theorist- none of whom share a border with Ukraine ( Estonia is over 1200 miles away) or have lived there and you think that's evidence ????

Try going to Ukraine - meeting the people, learning the culture- understanding what it's like to live under foreign occupation where you grow up forbidden to speak your own language and forced to speak Russian. But you haven't, have you? - you just troll the internet and post unintelligent crap on a forum from the comfort of your sofa.

You're like  the equivalent of a less intelligent Nigel Farage pontificating on the national psyche of Uzbekistan. 

Seek help.

[RedRock]

I just wish all humanity would grow up and act like intellegent beings rather than complete tossers.

The likelihood of that is, however, less than England winning the World Cup. Not going to happen.

 

[Harry]

7 hours ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Harry

YOU ARE SOOOOO gullible!!! If you think you can get your political facts from YouTube then you're not just daft- you're stupid.

A taped conversation of an Estonian politician with a person of little consequence- neither of whom are Ukranian and commented on by an American conspiracy theorist- none of whom share a border with Ukraine ( Estonia is over 1200 miles away) or have lived there and you think that's evidence ????

Try going to Ukraine - meeting the people, learning the culture- understanding what it's like to live under foreign occupation where you grow up forbidden to speak your own language and forced to speak Russian. But you haven't, have you? - you just troll the internet and post unintelligent crap on a forum from the comfort of your sofa.

You're like  the equivalent of a less intelligent Nigel Farage pontificating on the national psyche of Uzbekistan. 

Seek help.

So you refute as evidence the fact that the US have acknowledged that they spent £20 billion on a “democracy programme” in Ukraine. You refute as evidence the fact that the US Secretary of State was on the streets of Ukraine in support of protesters. You refute as evidence the fact the US advisor to the UN was taped saying who they will install as Ukrainian leaders and why. You refute as evidence that the powers put in place after the coup are a known far-right neo-Nazi party. 

Thats ok, you carry on calling me gullible and suggesting I seek help while you continue to ignore the collusion on show. 

I assume you think your government has never lied to you about anything? 

Oh, and for the record, my dads wife is Ukrainian. 

[MC RISK77]

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

So you refute as evidence the fact that the US have acknowledged that they spent £20 billion on a “democracy programme” in Ukraine. You refute as evidence the fact that the US Secretary of State was on the streets of Ukraine in support of protesters. You refute as evidence the fact the US advisor to the UN was taped saying who they will install as Ukrainian leaders and why. You refute as evidence that the powers put in place after the coup are a known far-right neo-Nazi party. 

Thats ok, you carry on calling me gullible and suggesting I seek help while you continue to ignore the collusion on show. 

I assume you think your government has never lied to you about anything? 

Oh, and for the record, my dads wife is Ukrainian. 

Sex tourist mate?

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

32 minutes ago, Harry said:

So you refute as evidence the fact that the US have acknowledged that they spent £20 billion on a “democracy programme” in Ukraine. You refute as evidence the fact that the US Secretary of State was on the streets of Ukraine in support of protesters. You refute as evidence the fact the US advisor to the UN was taped saying who they will install as Ukrainian leaders and why. You refute as evidence that the powers put in place after the coup are a known far-right neo-Nazi party. 

Thats ok, you carry on calling me gullible and suggesting I seek help while you continue to ignore the collusion on show. 

I assume you think your government has never lied to you about anything? 

Oh, and for the record, my dads wife is Ukrainian. 

Harry replied to Red Right Hand's topic in Football Chat:

"A lot of the Russian stories in our media are incredibly bias. The West love to paint a picture of the “big nasty Russians” in any of its media (not just the football hoolies). There is a continual narrative of “the Russians are coming”, to ensure our people always view them as bad versus us being good. Propagandist in the extreme. Don’t believe all that you read.:

•  February 25
•  

Haha- sorry harry- try taking your own advice given to OTIB on 25th Feb !! You are clearly no stranger to pro Russian propaganda and it  appears you're living in the wrong country.  However....isn't free speech a wonderful thing? It's brilliant that we can say what we like, hold strong political views without getting locked up, beaten up, poisoned or assassinated .

Anyways- this is a football forum and enough of this now- the topic is about going to the world cup in Russia. Fortunately it's a matter of personal choice and freedom to choose. I do believe it very wise for any English fan to think very carefully before travelling to Russia in the increasingly hostile atmosphere between our respective countries. Football around the world is used by some ,sadly, as a front for their political ideology or agenda and Russia does seem to have more than its fair share of these types .

I can't help but feel that our fans will not receive the steadfast protection of the Russian federation if it gets all messy.

•  

[Esmond Million's Bung]

8 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Like Tom Watson and Max Moseley's money? 50k wasn't it? or Corby's 5 appearances on Iranian state TV where he was paid 5K a pop personally?.

Sorry 500k for Watson.

[Major Isewater]

17 hours ago, Welcome To The Jungle said:

On one hand I'd be gutted for all the fans that have already forked out for flights, tickets etc. However I'd love it if this happened from a moral point of view. 

Football and morals in the same thread. 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Harry said:

Whether Russia end up guilty of this charge or not, the way Mrs May has gone about it is both childish and provocative.

All you have done is post to try to justify Russia's actions in the face of aggression from the West, in a sense that two wrongs do make a right, and the above is a perfect highlight. You will struggle to find many sympathisers when you bemoan our response "Whether or not Russia end up guilty of this charge or not".... do not be so damn flippant, the charge is the state-backed attempted murder of 2 persons in our sovereign state during peacetime. I do not give a crap if Mrs May has been provocative, because 'this charge' - your words - is about the most provocative act any single state can carry out against another.

[Red-Robbo]

10 hours ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Like Tom Watson and Max Moseley's money? 50k wasn't it? or Corby's 5 appearances on Iranian state TV where he was paid 5K a pop personally?.

 

Unlike a political neutral like yourself, Es, to pop up on a thread where there is criticism of the Conservative Party and post an "a but what about Labour..." comment completely unrelated to what is being discussed!   

[poland_exile]

1 hour ago, 29AR said:

All you have done is post to try to justify Russia's actions in the face of aggression from the West, in a sense that two wrongs do make a right, and the above is a perfect highlight. You will struggle to find many sympathisers when you bemoan our response "Whether or not Russia end up guilty of this charge or not".... do not be so damn flippant, the charge is the state-backed attempted murder of 2 persons in our sovereign state during peacetime. I do not give a crap if Mrs May has been provocative, because 'this charge' - your words - is about the most provocative act any single state can carry out against another.

and further to the attempted murder of two people has been the British citizens also put at risk. Just reading that 38 people have so far sought treatment while the center of Salisbury has become a ghost town while more tests are conducted. To my knowledge the copper is still in a serious condition. This all goes far beyond an attempted murder and is frankly absolutely sickening. I'm amazed people are trying to spin this to espouse their muggy youtube theories. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Unlike a political neutral like yourself, Es, to pop up on a thread where there is criticism of the Conservative Party and post an "a but what about Labour..." comment completely unrelated to what is being discussed!   

Perhaps for a change you might actually like to read the post that I was replying to, to help you out I have copy and pasted it.

   On 14/03/2018 at 01:30,  Chappers said: 

So the Press can vilify JC about a phoney Czech connection, but ignore this rank hypocrisy. Exact figure according to the Times is £826,100. If the Tories are so concerned about UK citizens, maybe they should look at number of deaths and suicides caused by their DWP sanctions.

it was detailing 'rank hypocrisy', sadly that 'rank hypocrisy' goes hand in hand with politics and is proliferated by rosette wearers.

The post was defending Corbyn's 2 outrageous and totally ill timed statement to 'the house' and as was said by virtually every right thinking person, this is not the time for this particular piece of ultra tribal politics from the leader of the opposition and as I have said to you before 'hating the tories' is not a credible policy not even for Corbyn.

[Red-Robbo]

30 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Perhaps for a change you might actually like to read the post that I was replying to, to help you out I have copy and pasted it.

   On 14/03/2018 at 01:30,  Chappers said: 

So the Press can vilify JC about a phoney Czech connection, but ignore this rank hypocrisy. Exact figure according to the Times is £826,100. If the Tories are so concerned about UK citizens, maybe they should look at number of deaths and suicides caused by their DWP sanctions.

it was detailing 'rank hypocrisy', sadly that 'rank hypocrisy' goes hand in hand with politics and is proliferated by rosette wearers.

The post was defending Corbyn's 2 outrageous and totally ill timed statement to 'the house' and as was said by virtually every right thinking person, this is not the time for this particular piece of ultra tribal politics from the leader of the opposition and as I have said to you before 'hating the tories' is not a credible policy not even for Corbyn.

I did read it.

Comparing £800k plus given to the Tories for campaigning in the 2017 GE from Russian sources , with a number of years of donations to Tom Watson's campaign on press regulation made by a British resident is not equivalent. 

It has nothing to do with the topic.

Nor, for that matter, are the small appearance fees that Corbyn donated to charity after his ill-advised appearances on a minor Iranian TV channel. I wonder if the various Tories who appeared on PressTV did likewise?

The question you should be asking yourself is - combining the election donations with the cost of the various Rusdian bots, social media sock puppets and meme creations.-  why were the Russians so keen on Theresa May winning the last election? 

[havanatopia]

47 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

.. why were the Russians so keen on Theresa May winning the last election? 

Probably taking your question far too literally and assuming you are referring to the Russian donators but could they simply be expressing a political preference? And maybe that is precisely the point you are trying to make to EMB.

I would just like to suggest that in reply to those asking for evidence; perhaps the evidence will expose our sources and endanger them.. And although there will be a clammer for it all to be released  only a slimmed down version maybe. The govt will then get slammed again so they are damned either way probably. I for one accept what they have found and they would not be creating this situation for another motive.

This thread really has no place in the football forums. Perhaps it should be moved? 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

4 minutes ago, havanatopia said:

Probably taking your question far too literally and assuming you are referring to the Russian donators but could they simply be expressing a political preference? And maybe that is precisely the point you are trying to make to EMB.

I would just like to suggest that in reply to those asking for evidence; perhaps the evidence will expose our sources and endanger them.. And although there will be a clammer for it all to be released  only a slimmed down version maybe. The govt will then get slammed again so they are damned either way probably. I for one accept what they have found and they would not be creating this situation for another motive.

This thread really has no place in the football forums. Perhaps it should be moved? 

Perhaps. This thread may also serve as a reminder that going to Russia this summer is not an entirely football based decision.

[havanatopia]

16 minutes ago, Marina's Rolls Royce said:

Perhaps. This thread may also serve as a reminder that going to Russia this summer is not an entirely football based decision.

Not a bad point sir, not a bad one at all. 

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

I did read it.

Comparing £800k plus given to the Tories for campaigning in the 2017 GE from Russian sources , with a number of years of donations to Tom Watson's campaign on press regulation made by a British resident is not equivalent. 

It has nothing to do with the topic.

Nor, for that matter, are the small appearance fees that Corbyn donated to charity after his ill-advised appearances on a minor Iranian TV channel. I wonder if the various Tories who appeared on PressTV did likewise?

The question you should be asking yourself is - combining the election donations with the cost of the various Rusdian bots, social media sock puppets and meme creations.-  why were the Russians so keen on Theresa May winning the last election? 

The Russians tried to get Marine le Pen elected in France but failed .

The Russian news channel ' Sputnik ' spread ' information ' about Macron to discredit him to the advantage of Le Pen.

There was also recently , on a respected Germano/French channel " Arte ",  an interview with a Russian hacker who admitted to working for the Kremlin by spreading ' false news ' or ' lies ' as we British call it , to get Trump elected.

He said that he no longer did this as it didn't work in France .

We are in a very , very grey area my friends . This is war make no mistake.  

Information is power . No need to send in the troops when an eight year old can invent a story and pop it on the web where it becomes truth .

As Abraham Lincoln said 

" Don't trust everything you read on the internet " 

 

[ZiderEyed]

1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

The Russians tried to get Marine le Pen elected in France but failed .

The Russian news channel ' Sputnik ' spread ' information ' about Macron to discredit him to the advantage of Le Pen.

There was also recently , on a respected Germano/French channel " Arte ",  an interview with a Russian hacker who admitted to working for the Kremlin by spreading ' false news ' or ' lies ' as we British call it , to get Trump elected.

He said that he no longer did this as it didn't work in France .

We are in a very , very grey area my friends . This is war make no mistake.  

Information is power . No need to send in the troops when an eight year old can invent a story and pop it on the web where it becomes truth .

As Abraham Lincoln said 

" Don't trust everything you read on the internet " 

 

I've read on multiple different sites that the Russian government did pay huge swathes of people in Saint Petersburg to post purposefully divisive content on social media sites, and then responding to it on alternate accounts, with the express aim of making the American public's ideas less centrist.

Fascinating really.

[ExiledAjax]

Just seen the squad. No way am I going now.

[poland_exile]

45 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

I've read on multiple different sites that the Russian government did pay huge swathes of people in Saint Petersburg to post purposefully divisive content on social media sites, and then responding to it on alternate accounts, with the express aim of making the American public's ideas less centrist.

Fascinating really.

indeed - 'the troll houses' - totally bonkers. unbelievable the age we live in. and to think, when i was growing up the future all felt so rosy! 

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

On 3/13/2018 at 11:37, Harry said:

If you had planned on going, no reason why you should change your mind. 

The anti-Russia rhetoric is in full swing isn’t it. And it’ll all be proven in the long run to be a load of nonsense. 

Quite why our government (the nobend Gavin Williamson in particular) think it’s a good idea to continually attempt to provoke Russia into a war, I don’t know. If they want a war with Russia, there’s only one winner. We are being ruled by absolute warmongering idiots. And Russia simply aren’t playing ball and hopefully will continue to ignore all of the BS coming from the UK gov. 

If Russia do want to react against us, buy yourselves plenty of blankets and jumpers, cuz the first thing they’ll do is shut off our gas supply. Brrrrr. 

As for this nonsense about “we’re pulling out of the cup” or “right, we won’t send William, that’ll show ‘em”, do you really think Russia give a flying ****! 

I have a feeling that going to Russia  for the World Cup and wearing an England shirt this summer is ever increasingly looking like a potentially hazardous excursion.

With 21 countries now feeling it's not "a load of nonsense" and expelling over 100 "Diplomats" with the UK at the centre of the storm and with further retaliation to follow, I suggest that the danger to England fans from Russian displeasure is mounting by the day. Pretty extensive holiday insurance a must - whilst it's still available.

Sad that "the beautiful game" comes with such ugly sideshows. And where next? A middle Eastern country that's hotter than the sun, where woman are possessions, gays are criminal and pretty much everyone else is an infidel.

Why is football and it's biggest most glorious competition allowed to be high jacked by such countries? ........

:- Dunno but I bet Blatter and his members and the Swiss banking system know the answer.

 

[BS4 on Tour...]

I went to Russia back in 1985 - proper Cold War times....as long as you respected the locals and their way of life there was no bother. Saw a cocky Yank get jumped on and taken away by seriously hard looking guys who came from nowhere when he started acting like a dick in public and taking photos of things that all tourists were warned not to do.

Basically it’s like anywhere, respect a country, be sensible and you’ll be fine...it’s probably a walk in the park these days compared to back then...their way of life was unbelievable in those days...I was offered to ‘name my price’ for my jeans in a hotel because the locals had never seen them before...they were a ‘western decadence’....incredible times...

[One Team In Keynsham]

7 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I went to Russia back in 1985 - proper Cold War times....as long as you respected the locals and their way of life there was no bother. Saw a cocky Yank get jumped on and taken away by seriously hard looking guys who came from nowhere when he started acting like a dick in public and taking photos of things that all tourists were warned not to do.

Basically it’s like anywhere, respect a country, be sensible and you’ll be fine...it’s probably a walk in the park these days compared to back then...their way of life was unbelievable in those days...I was offered to ‘name my price’ for my jeans in a hotel because the locals had never seen them before...they were a ‘western decadence’....incredible times...

Only been once before, with work to Moscow in 1998: had a brilliant time, in what felt like the Wild West. Saw no hassle whatsoever. Clearly times may have moved on.

[Marina's Rolls Royce]

 

45 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

I went to Russia back in 1985

When it was a different country and a different state.

I'm sure anyone being sensible and respectful whilst on holiday in Russia will be fine.

You may find that hoards of England  fan's may not be considered to meet this criteria.

[bcfcredandwhite]

I would love to go to Russia - I planned to do so a few years back and I learned a bit of Russian and to read the Cyrillic alphabet in preparation. 

Sadly a redundancy changed my plans but still hope to go some day. Not with football though - unless City have a game against Spartak, Zenit  or Lokomotiv!!!!

 

 

 

 

[EmissionImpossible]

There will be trouble if people go looking for it. 

No more politics please 

[YorkshireSection]

On 13 March 2018 at 13:58, Markred said:

I have lost all faith in what our government tells us.. ever since the weapons of mass destruction lies! 

That was a labour lead government ran by the war criminal Tony Blair. 

No doubt that if he was in charge now we'd be at war with Syria.

ive never hated a man so much, what a turd.

[WhistleHappy]

On ‎15‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 16:03, ExiledAjax said:

Just seen the squad. No way am I going now.

...firing squad?