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Statement from Jon Lansdown + SC&T reply


RedM

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Lansdown Jnr's statement seemed fair enough to me.

Far too much whingeing on here and here's some thoughts:

  • Seems reasonable from a business perspective to utilise the Lansdown Upper for kids leaving more space for full payers like me in the lower seats.
  • Overall season ticket prices still  very good value and I'd definitely buy one if I didn't live 100 miles away.
  • We still have a realistic (albeit slim) chance of playing in the Premier League next season so worth renewing now to reserve a seat at a lower price  as they are sure to go up if we do.

I'll get my tin helmet...

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2 minutes ago, Nongazeuse said:

Lansdown Jnr's statement seemed fair enough to me.

Far too much whingeing on here and here's some thoughts:

  • Seems reasonable from a business perspective to utilise the Lansdown Upper for kids leaving more space for full payers like me in the lower seats.
  • Overall season ticket prices still  very good value and I'd definitely buy one if I didn't live 100 miles away.
  • We still have a realistic (albeit slim) chance of playing in the Premier League next season so worth renewing now to reserve a seat at a lower price  as they are sure to go up if we do.

I'll get my tin helmet...

You’re making the same mistake as him - you’re looking at this purely from the superficial financial level.

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Why the club thinks it's acceptable to put the family area in the upper lansdown is beyond me!!

It's so high up there and kids eyes will be working overtime to see anything!! 

I'm so angry at being forced to move to that part of the ground, the plans regarding the family concourse are just that plans!! We were told by supporter services that ' sag' aren't signing it off because it's in the upper tier!!

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  On 08/03/2018 at 13:17, redordead1 said:

Hi All,

I've held off writing this because I came away from the meeting last night dissapointed and angry. Hopefully sleeping on it will allow for a more reasoned summary.

The meeting started with Ashton attempting to (rather clumbsily) define the structure of the Bristol Sport, Ashton Gate and BCFC businesses in what appeared to be an effort to deflect the responsibility of the pricing decsions away from himself and BCFC, and on to the Bristol Sport business which is headed up by Jon Lansdown. As others have mentioned above, he then appeared to realise the ramifications of mentioning Jon Lansdown by name and spent the next 5 minutes trying to backtrack and explain that all decisions were of course voted in and passed by the board of BCFC too, a board which Jon Lansdown is also a member of.

It wasn't clear who specifically created the new pricing, but it is clear that both Steve and Jon Lansdown as well as all board members effectively signed off on the new pricing strategy.

Ashton then stated that a "huge amount of benchmarking and consultation" had been done before the pricing has been released and labelled our existing ST prices as "cheap" a number of times and that we are a loss making company and lucky to have Steve Lansdown funding it all. As others have said, he completely failed to understand or show any appreciation that the majority of the room had contributed a far larger respective percentage of their individual wealth for decades more than the current owners and management team. His comical overuse of the word consultation, combined with Dolly highlighting the fact that there had been no real consultation with any supporters group just emphasised how hollow this statement was. He finished this opening by stating how they "need to get better" and "learn lessons" moving forward, failing to realise that the evening was an ideal opportunity to do precisely this and make positive changes as a direct result of listening to what the supporters had to say. It was clear from this point on that this was an exercise in trying to explain away the changes and that no ground would be given.

Gavin Marshall, a CFO with a distinct lack of understanding of what it means to be a football supporter, then laid out in pedestrain terms the new price points. They stated that the disabled concessions were changed because they are effectvely viewing everyone by age now and not social circumstance. Doug Harman then showed the slightest glimpse of empathy (the only example the whole night) by stating that he understood how difficult the rises must be for disabled supporters. When somebody mentioned that there are only 500 or so disabled supporters this would affect, I could have sworn that both Harman and Ashton's eyes lit up. I would not be at all surprised if they view this as an opportunity to make a minor change and one that they can promote and use as PR to show they've "listened to the fans" across the media. 

As Dolly mentions above, Marshall then showed either a complete lack of understanding/contempt for families who don't wish to be financially/socially engineered or moved into the family section. Having admitted that they made an error with the Under 12's in the Lansdown (would this have happended if they had consulted in the first place?) the "enhanced family experience" line was again used repeatedly, with no explanation of what this entails, or why families would want to move away from being sat amongst friends, families that they've spent decades forming close bonds with.

It was difficult to show restraint when Marshall reponded to a few of us explaining what it really meant to be a City fan and the importance of this shared matchday experience with "well you can always move" and Ashton followed up with, football fans always feel like they've got a god-given right to their seat and their part of the ground . If any part of the evening gave a glimpse in to the sheer disregard for the most loyal City fans and the complete lack of empathy, or as others have said, simple appreciation that this is "all a bit unfair" it was this. There is zero respect for those of us who have supported the club up until now, we are simply being viewed as customers. The loyalty programme is clearly a phone app, ST card/BCFC "wallet" designed to reward you with offers based on how much you spend on pies, pasties and pints. Again, this shows such a cynical disregard to how we all feel loyalty should be viewed and rewarded.

The only other concession they made was to look at extending the renewal period for a week to allow people to benefit from two pay checks. "What? Is that pay day is it?" -  Ashton 

Hopefully, this provides a fair summary. I do not for one moment believe I'm speaking on anyone else's behalf. So, for anyone else who was in attendence, please feel free to correct me if I've got anything wrong.

In summary, my lasting impression is that not once did Ashton or any of the others actually ask a supporter how they felt about any of the changes. I cannot imagine any other business (and that's how they class themselves) showing such an amazing lack of respect towards it's most loyal supporters. I want to steer clear of any personal stuff, but I do want to point out that at times the tone, agression and sheer rudeness shown towards fans was completely unacceptable. Pointing a bottle at someone when they have the temerity to ask you a queston is just not on and really unprofessional.

It's clear we are at a watershed in this club's history as to how they view and treat us. Fair play to those at FAN and SC&T for their earlier statement, we really need to show some solidarity and get the message out on this before we lose a large number of very loyal supporters. #fansnotcustomers

Not at all surprised and follows what I thought would happen as per the above.

Spineless statement that completely fails to tackle the main issue of families being forced out of their existing seats and continues with this bullshit "family experience" line. They simply don't care about the historic loyal support.

They are trying to redefine who they want as supporters and the whole match day experience is being built around corporate hospitality and selling more food and beverage. It's a sad time in our history and as many others have said, I've never felt more disconnected from City

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1 hour ago, RedM said:

Finally, with regards to the introduction of our new loyalty scheme we will be announcing full details over the summer, ahead of the 2018/19 campaign. However, I think it’s important to clarify now that season card holders will be entitled to a ten per cent discount on all food and beverages purchased in the concourse, coffee shop and hospitality areas, alongside earning loyalty in other areas, including the Store at Ashton Gate. 

You will also still benefit from £5 off for CATS travel in 2018/19, away and cup ticket priority, two £10 guest tickets, free entry to Under-23 matches and a free ticket for selected Bristol Rugby fixtures.

So this 'loyalty scheme' is exactly the same as you got with the current Season Tickets just not called Plus any more then. What was the need for secrecy over this? Or have they realised they had nothing new to offer and have backtracked?

Whilst the staging of disabled increases is at least a small concession, they have completely ignored the engineered moves of large groups of fans that are going to ruin the social experience for a lot of people.

A small step in the right direction, but not really enough, though I suspect that this will be all it is now.

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2 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

So this 'loyalty scheme' is exactly the same as you got with the current Season Tickets just not called Plus any more then. What was the need for secrecy over this? Or have they realised they had nothing new to offer and have backtracked?

Whilst the staging of disabled increases is at least a small concession, they have completely ignored the engineered moves of large groups of fans that are going to ruin the social experience for a lot of people.

A small step in the right direction, but not really enough, though I suspect that this will be all it is now.

That was exactly my first thoughts, why the secrecy. I suspect they weren’t actually going to offer all those benefits until the backlash.

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It's quite a skill to write a press release that lays on thick the "we accept" and "we appreciate", yet manages to get out the other side without using the word "but" and with no change of policy. Normally when you accept and appreciate things, you either address them, or you throw in the necessary "but" or "however" face-slap.

This does neither. It is a PR masterpiece. He got me properly warmed up for a climb down and before I knew what had happened he was talking about having lots of fun in a special concourse and pay monthly schemes and it dawned on me that nothing had changed. Politicians would be proud of this one. Magicians would be too.

 

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12 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

So they can sell the lower section seats at a much higher price for pay on the day/non season ticket holders. 

This is the reason I agree. But the club must be pretty bloody convinced they can produce the football to merit this. Let’s face it we haven’t sold out many times this season cup games aside who’s to say it will be more likely next. A huge gamble which has alienated the fan base.

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1 hour ago, Super said:

kids don't want to be miles away from the pitch anyway. Stupid decision for them to be up in the gods.

some of the best views on offer

(lets hope they all have brilliant eyesight)

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3 minutes ago, Olé said:

It's quite a skill to write a press release that lays on thick the "we accept" and "we appreciate", yet manages to get out the other side without using the word "but" and with no change of policy. Normally when you accept and appreciate things, you either address them, or you throw in the necessary "but" or "however" face-slap.

This does neither. It is a PR masterpiece. He got me properly warmed up for a climb down and before I knew what had happened he was talking about having lots of fun in a special concourse and pay monthly schemes and it dawned on me that nothing had changed. Politicians would be proud of this one. Magicians would be too.

 

Exactly. I’ve heard but I’ve not listened.

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7 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

So this 'loyalty scheme' is exactly the same as you got with the current Season Tickets just not called Plus any more then. What was the need for secrecy over this? Or have they realised they had nothing new to offer and have backtracked?

Whilst the staging of disabled increases is at least a small concession, they have completely ignored the engineered moves of large groups of fans that are going to ruin the social experience for a lot of people.

A small step in the right direction, but not really enough, though I suspect that this will be all it is now.

Current plus ST holders get 15%. Next Season it will be 10% for all.

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13 minutes ago, richwwtk said:

So this 'loyalty scheme' is exactly the same as you got with the current Season Tickets just not called Plus any more then.

Not sure that's right. I get 15% this season. I get 10% next season. That's loyalty for you :blink:

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34 minutes ago, Nongazeuse said:
  • Seems reasonable from a business perspective to utilise the Lansdown Upper for kids leaving more space for full payers like me in the lower seats.

Is that the attitude you have to all your outgoings each month? If your energy bills go up by 25% would you be happy as from a business perspective it will make more money for the energy company?

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"Finally, with regards to the introduction of our new loyalty scheme we will be announcing full details over the summer, ahead of the 2018/19 campaign. However, I think it’s important to clarify now that season card holders will be entitled to a ten per cent discount on all food and beverages purchased in the concourse, coffee shop and hospitality areas, alongside earning loyalty in other areas, including the Store at Ashton Gate."

To me it looks like they are scrapping the club shop discount (meaning no more complaints that it can't be used online) and imstead we will end up with a points system. 1 point per £1 spent, each point is worth 1p type rubbish. Add that on top of the 15% discount dropping to 10% it's just more money they are trying to squeeze out of "customers" who should be greatful for the stadium they built for our supporter experience.

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Yes we like the stadium, not perfect but basically we like it. Would we have continued to attend with no redevelopment, yes for example I sit in the Dolman and the seating hasn’t changed. But it looks like from the statement we should be greatful for the redevelopment. So who benefits from the extra capacity, corporate facilities etc, not your average fan for sure. 

I thought when we had price rises before and compared to similar clubs we were told it’s because we didn’t have the capacity, once we redeveloped this was a possibility. Well that didn’t happen. IF we ever do get to the Prem I won’t be holding my breath for the cheap tickets, subsidised travel that some teams get as they get extra revenue from tv tv etc. I can guarantee we won’t see any of that filter down to the fans if this is how we are going.

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16 minutes ago, Buckeyed said:

Is that the attitude you have to all your outgoings each month? If your energy bills go up by 25% would you be happy as from a business perspective it will make more money for the energy company?

Using your analogy, if British Gas put up my current tariff, I would chose a cheaper one from them if available. 

Of course I could chose to move to SSE and watch Bristol Rovers instead  but that would be personal choice (obviously I would have to insane).

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2 minutes ago, RedM said:

Yes we like the stadium, not perfect but basically we like it. Would we have continued to attend with no redevelopment, yes for example I sit in the Dolman and the seating hasn’t changed. But it looks like from the statement we should be greatful for the redevelopment. So who benefits from the extra capacity, corporate facilities etc, not your average fan for sure. 

I thought when we had price rises before and compared to similar clubs we were told it’s because we didn’t have the capacity, once we redeveloped this was a possibility. Well that didn’t happen. IF we ever do get to the Prem I won’t be holding my breath for the cheap tickets, subsidised travel that some teams get as they get extra revenue from tv tv etc. I can guarantee we won’t see any of that filter down to the fans if this is how we are going.

Let’s have it right, the Dolman is shit. You’d never choose to sit there if you were new to the club. Small seats, minimal legroom, takes ages to get out of etc etc. You put up with it because your mates and family are around you. 

Bristol City have shown that they couldn’t give a tinkers cuss about loyal fans. 

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