England squad v Netherlands & Italy

[ZiderEyed]

1 minute ago, Maltshoveller said:

What the same Harry Winks who doesnt even start for his club

Aye that one.

[dereks no1]

On 15/03/2018 at 19:38, Bryans Left Peg said:

Can anybody remember having such a weak England side?

I'd like to see players actually playing based on form rather than Wilshere, Welbeck, Rose, Lallana, Livermore etc.

My team would be (with the WC in mind) - Pickford, Walker, Tarkowski, Maguire, Bertrand, Dier, Henderson, Sterling, Rashford, Alli, Vardy (4-2-3-1)

Don't think Dier and Henderson should be picked on form either but out of the list, can't see anybody else who can suit the 'DM' role as effectively.

 

England squad to face the Netherlands and Italy

Goalkeepers: Joe Hart, Jack Butland, Jordan Pickford, Nick Pope

Defenders: Ryan Bertrand, Danny Rose, Harry Maguire, John Stones, Joe Gomez, James Tarkowski, Alfie Mawson, Kyle Walker, Kieran Trippier

Midfielders: Ashley Young, Eric Dier, Lewis Cook, Jake Livermore, Jordan Henderson, Jack Wilshere, Adam Lallana, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain

Forwards: Raheem Sterling, Marcus Rashford, Jesse Lingard, Dele Alli, Danny Welbeck, Jamie Vardy

dont understand having 4 keepers in the squad

[Major Isewater]

England since 1970 have been about selecting the best individuals at the top clubs who qualify . 

If the FA want to win at senior level they need a team . 

 

[OneCity]

22 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

Thats why your a fan and not a manager

To say Pack is a better player than Henderson is a joke

 

Well yes it is, a sarcastic one. But seriously, I don't think henderson is good enough. If I'm the only one who thinks he's overrated, then so be it.

 

[Bryans Left Peg]

8 minutes ago, OneCity said:

Well yes it is, a sarcastic one. But seriously, I don't think henderson is good enough. If I'm the only one who thinks he's overrated, then so be it.

 

I think the work Henderson does is massively undervalued because he goes about his job quietly.

 

[Midlands Robin]

The ironic thing is, on current form, I'd have Rooney in the side over Welbeck any day of the week.

I hate it when players 'retire' from international football as if they think they are automatically given the right to pick and choose when they play for their country. 

Your country chooses you and not the other way around. 

That mentality is part of the reason why we struggle to create an England team. 

[Bris Red]

 

7 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

The ironic thing is, on current form, I'd have Rooney in the side over Welbeck any day of the week.

I hate it when players 'retire' from international football as if they think they are automatically given the right to pick and choose when they play for their country. 

Your country chooses you and not the other way around. 

That mentality is part of the reason why we struggle to create an England team. 

No i disagree. There is a time for every player to step aside and without question Rooney’s time had come, i find it cringeworthy the players particularly David Beckham who dont know when to call it a day and cling on to an international career that is clearly finished.

Also with all due respect what are you really expecting from Rooney now at over 30 ? He has never produced for England in competition football and he isn’t going to start doing it now he’s over the hill. Time to move on.

[RumRed]

15 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

The ironic thing is, on current form, I'd have Rooney in the side over Welbeck any day of the week.

I hate it when players 'retire' from international football as if they think they are automatically given the right to pick and choose when they play for their country. 

Your country chooses you and not the other way around. 

That mentality is part of the reason why we struggle to create an England team. 

You can see why he would retire though

1. Hardly an inspiring team to be part of. 

2. The press will crucify him when we do poorly

3. He's not the fittest so he needs to stretch his career and earnings as long as possible.

 

Still dont agree but then I disliked it when he said he'd retire after this WC about a year or two ago.  Thought that very presumptuous!

[ZiderEyed]

Here's an obligatory OTIB international thread reminder that we chose Roy Hodgson to be the national team manager over Pep Guardiola because he was English.

[DaveInSA]

I have to say that I gave up on England after 2010. They will never pull me back. Awful, just awful. Led by that scally Rooney.

I can’t ever forgive him for the way he treated the fans that day, nor the complete lack of commitment in that tournament.

[Midlands Robin]

36 minutes ago, bris red said:

No i disagree. There is a time for every player to step aside and without question Rooney’s time had come, i find it cringeworthy the players particularly David Beckham who dont know when to call it a day and cling on to an international career that is clearly finished.

Also with all due respect what are you really expecting from Rooney now at over 30 ? He has never produced for England in competition football and he isn’t going to start doing it now he’s over the hill. Time to move on.

I hear what you are saying but it's down to the manager not the player. The England Manager should realise when it's time to drop a player and when it's time to pick him. England managers have traditionally been far to scared to upset the apple cart and we all know that certain names are on the team sheet because of who they are not how they are playing.

Welbeck isn't in the top 18 premier league goal scorers this season and Rooney is currently 5th. I guess the question could be reversed and ask what are we expecting Welbeck to do that we couldn't get from Rooney?

That being said, Welbeck is only in there because Kane is out at the moment.

I don't see age being a problem at international level providing the player is in form and fit. Rooney was absolute baggage at the Euro's and Hodgson made an ass of himself trying to accomodate him in the side. He wasn't playing that well for Man Utd at the time either. Those are the moments when you should rest a player and try something different. As they say, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results. Rooney chucked his toys out of his pram and 'retired' because he thought he could set the agenda and that he was above England as he finally scored enough penalties and goals against San Marino to become top goal scorer. That shouldn't have been allowed to happen. The manager should pick the right players at the right time.

As it turns out now, Rooney is playing decent football for Everton and is scoring goals for his club. He's an experienced international who could offer something to the squad. Certainly more than Welbeck at this stage. Thanks to rulling himself out though, it's not something that's going to happen anyway.

Is this 'I've retired from internation football' something that's particular to the English game as I don't recall many German and Italian players announcing international retirements in their early 30's ??

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Midlands Robin said:

The ironic thing is, on current form, I'd have Rooney in the side over Welbeck any day of the week.

I hate it when players 'retire' from international football as if they think they are automatically given the right to pick and choose when they play for their country. 

Your country chooses you and not the other way around. 

That mentality is part of the reason why we struggle to create an England team. 

Agree completely MR, and it's for this reason that I have not "retired" myself from international football. 

Given some of the players now vying for selection it's not looking a bad decision, as even at my age I could be in with a shout, and am keeping the Santiago's ( gives my age away) dubbinned up, just in case Gareth gives me a call.

 

[Midlands Robin]

2 minutes ago, downendcity said:

Agree completely MR, and it's for this reason that I have not "retired" myself from international football. 

Given some of the players now vying for selection it's not looking a bad decision, as even at my age I could be in with a shout, and am keeping the Santiago's ( gives my age away) dubbinned up, just in case Gareth gives me a call.

 

I also remain available and have yet to retire myself. Given how shit I was as a player, I became quite useful in goal so there may still be a slot for me there.

[North London Red]

1 hour ago, ZiderEyed said:

Here's an obligatory OTIB international thread reminder that we chose Roy Hodgson to be the national team manager over Pep Guardiola because he was English.

I might disagree with a lot of what the FA have done over the years, but on the subject of manager nationality I honestly struggle with the idea of appointing overseas nationals. To me it completely defeats the object of international football if you can appoint whoever you want, irrespective of nationality - especially if a rich nation can pay millions to a foreign coach to therefore try and gain an advantage.

The whole point of international football (to me at least) is that it's the best that one country can produce against the best that another country can produce - and that should apply to the manager as much as it applies to the players. If the best we can produce is Steve McClaren or Roy Hodgson, so be it.

[North London Red]

2 hours ago, bris red said:

 

No i disagree. There is a time for every player to step aside and without question Rooney’s time had come, i find it cringeworthy the players particularly David Beckham who dont know when to call it a day and cling on to an international career that is clearly finished.

Also with all due respect what are you really expecting from Rooney now at over 30 ? He has never produced for England in competition football and he isn’t going to start doing it now he’s over the hill. Time to move on.

Never produced in competition football? Not even Euro 2004, when he was one of the best players in the tournament before his injury? Does that not count? Why does this always seem to be overlooked by those who criticise Rooney?

He also scored in four separate tournaments for England, so to say he ‘never produced’ is harsh. (Before anyone says it, yes, I agree he was below par in 2006 and 2010 - largely fitness related - and was foolish to get himself suspended for the first 2 games of 2012). 

 

1 hour ago, Midlands Robin said:

 

Is this 'I've retired from internation football' something that's particular to the English game as I don't recall many German and Italian players announcing international retirements in their early 30's ??

Per Mertesacker retired at 29, and Philipp Lahm at 30. Am sure there are others too. 

[Coxy27]

On 15/03/2018 at 21:06, Super said:

Maybe Welbeck is in for his diving.

Just imagine our front line of Sterling, Alli, Welbeck, Rashford, Kane. I wonder how many times they have been booked for, or accused of, diving this season.

English players are probably the worst divers in the game now.

[DaveF]

On 18/03/2018 at 23:03, North London Red said:

If it's Leon Bailey, that's a whole separate argument.

Am I missing anyone else here?

Leon Bailey is Jamaican.

[Carey 6]

On 18/03/2018 at 15:07, The Bard said:

 

Wiltshire does not control games.  As Roy Keane said the other week, he has to be the most overrated player on the planet.  

 

It's truly outstanding how you've managed to spell his name incorrectly despite posting a clip where it's spelt correctly 

'Wiltshire' is a good player, England have nobody who plays the same way as him.

Over the past 20 or so years, we've had many players, including some of the best in the world in their respective positions, under perform in the national side. Players like Wilshere, who actually manage to play quite well for the country HAVE to be taken. When he last had a decent run of games for England, I believe he got 6 or 7 MOTMs in a row or something. 

 

 

 

[The Bard]

53 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

It's truly outstanding how you've managed to spell his name incorrectly despite posting a clip where it's spelt correctly 

'Wiltshire' is a good player, England have nobody who plays the same way as him.

Over the past 20 or so years, we've had many players, including some of the best in the world in their respective positions, under perform in the national side. Players like Wilshere, who actually manage to play quite well for the country HAVE to be taken. When he last had a decent run of games for England, I believe he got 6 or 7 MOTMs in a row or something. 

 

 

 

He DOESN'T HAVE to be taken at all.... 

You have a different opinion.  No need for gratuitous use of Bold

[North London Red]

2 hours ago, DaveF said:

Leon Bailey is Jamaican.

Yes...and he also qualifies for England through his grandparents, and there was speculation in the press a few weeks ago that England were going to try and call him up before the World Cup. I suspect it won’t happen.

But it does remind me of a good trivia question: which player was an unused sub for England for one game in the 1990s but was never capped by England, and later went on to play against England in a World Cup game?

[Lew-T]

That’s arguably the worst England midfield I’ve ever seen. 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 hours ago, North London Red said:

Yes...and he also qualifies for England through his grandparents, and there was speculation in the press a few weeks ago that England were going to try and call him up before the World Cup. I suspect it won’t happen.

But it does remind me of a good trivia question: which player was an unused sub for England for one game in the 1990s but was never capped by England, and later went on to play against England in a World Cup game?

I hope they try everything to get him. He’s quality and it would be such a shame to see him never qualify for the World Cup if he goes with Jamaica.

Sounds like his dad, who’s pretty influential on his career, likes the idea - and even met with Dan Ashworth a few weeks ago.

[RedRock]

On 18/03/2018 at 21:45, OneCity said:

Well yes it is, a sarcastic one. But seriously, I don't think henderson is good enough. If I'm the only one who thinks he's overrated, then so be it.

 

Mate. You and 99.9% of the population. You are not alone.

 Yep. Build a TEAM, select best players for a chosen formation.

Don’t be blinded by the glare of Premiership hype. If you need to, populate that team with a couple of Championship players if they are either the best in the role or complement the others team members most effectively.

Don’t be a Gareth.

 

[Maltshoveller]

23 hours ago, Lew-T said:

That’s arguably the worst England midfield I’ve ever seen. 

Carlton Palmer played in midfield for England!!!!

[underhanded]

It's interesting how divisive WIlshere is, some seem to think he's our best CM, others suggest he isn't even of Prem standard. I personally think he's one of the better shouts for a CM spot, and if partnered with the correct player in the middle will be our best option going into the tournament. That's not to say he's world class, or anything of the like. A big problem for England over the years seems to be the lack of an ability to make things happen in the final third when at tournaments, and I don't see anyone else being able to step up and make that happen. Remember people can, slightly hysterically, talk about how useless he is in the Prem etc. but he always fairs fairly well in an England shirt, so he has to be near enough starting for me.

Oh yeah, and have opinions on players all you want, but I can't think of a more clueless, reactionary pundit than Roy Keane, so I'd take everything he says with a very big pinch of salt

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, underhanded said:

It's interesting how divisive WIlshere is, some seem to think he's our best CM, others suggest he isn't even of Prem standard. I personally think he's one of the better shouts for a CM spot, and if partnered with the correct player in the middle will be our best option going into the tournament. That's not to say he's world class, or anything of the like. A big problem for England over the years seems to be the lack of an ability to make things happen in the final third when at tournaments, and I don't see anyone else being able to step up and make that happen. Remember people can, slightly hysterically, talk about how useless he is in the Prem etc. but he always fairs fairly well in an England shirt, so he has to be near enough starting for me.

Oh yeah, and have opinions on players all you want, but I can't think of a more clueless, reactionary pundit than Roy Keane, so I'd take everything he says with a very big pinch of salt

 You can't think of a more clueless pundit than Roy Keane?  Here's a few for you.

Alan Shearer, Dion Dublin, Robbie Savage, Jermaine Jenas, Steve Claridge, Chris Iwelumo, Michael Gray, Paul Ince, Chris Sutton, Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, Phil Neville, Jamie Redknapp

 

 

 

[One BCFC]

9 minutes ago, The Bard said:

 You can't think of a more clueless pundit than Roy Keane?  Here's a few for you.

Alan Shearer, Dion Dublin, Robbie Savage, Jermaine Jenas, Steve Claridge, Chris Iwelumo, Michael Gray, Paul Ince, Chris Sutton, Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, Phil Neville, Jamie Redknapp

 

 

 

You sum it up well. Keane tells it how it is, best one in my opinion.

[underhanded]

Nah, still clueless in my opinion.

He gets his pundit money from playing the surly contrarian, will massively over-emphasise his criticism a player or team with little evidence, and it's seen as 'refreshing' and 'talking straight'. Just because it's blunt and to the point doesn't make it right. I also find it funny that he repeatedly makes out modern footballers are darlings, when he effectively through a tantrum at the World Cup and left his team and country in the lurch. 

 

But yes, a long list of those names mentioned are also clueless, but you forgot Michael Owen!

Personally think Pat Nevin's the best pundit out there by a mile!

[Swede]

I don't know why Joe Hart is continually picked, his form doesn't warrant inclusion and makes a mockery of being selected to play for your country. Presumably he has experience and his selection is perhaps in the hope that he'll regain his form. On that basis expect a recall for Peter Shilton as well.

Unlike the majority on here I actually think Jake Livermore & Jack Wilshere is a far better combination than Henderson & Dier [or should that be dire]. Livermore sweeps up and does the simple things and can do both of the jobs Henderson & Dier do rolled into one. Wilshere is the only forward thinking midfielder we have and the team should be fashioned around him.

Nowadays I tend to switch off watching England as its jobs for the boys but then again what do we all expect when we have a weak and insipid manager, hardly inspiring is it. 

 

[Super]

55 minutes ago, Swede said:

I don't know why Joe Hart is continually picked, his form doesn't warrant inclusion and makes a mockery of being selected to play for your country. Presumably he has experience and his selection is perhaps in the hope that he'll regain his form. On that basis expect a recall for Peter Shilton as well.

Unlike the majority on here I actually think Jake Livermore & Jack Wilshere is a far better combination than Henderson & Dier [or should that be dire]. Livermore sweeps up and does the simple things and can do both of the jobs Henderson & Dier do rolled into one. Wilshere is the only forward thinking midfielder we have and the team should be fashioned around him.

Nowadays I tend to switch off watching England as its jobs for the boys but then again what do we all expect when we have a weak and insipid manager, hardly inspiring is it. 

 

Henderson can play the holding role and is miles better than Livermore but you can't play him and Dier as they are too similar. Henderson alongside Wilshire might be the best option we currently have.