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Just got back from taking the boy to school, listening to Radio Bristol with Emma Britton interviewing the new Sag manager. "So Graham, just to clarify, is it Coff or Cock?" I think we all know the answer to that one deary...

Cueless clunt

Was pondering doing this over Christmas but decided to wait a bit. Birmingham's financial results though and their losses inspired me to make this thread and wonder how clubs are placed and whether we may have an advantage over them in the future i.e. next season. Aston Villa- Surely failed it over the 3 years to this season. However we only have their results for 16/17 at this time, technically compliant between 15/16 and last season but not by much. So far, out of FFP total of £13m, they lost £6.5m in 16/17 after allowable costs removed. Can lose post said costs another £32.5m over the 2 seasons to the end of this season with parachute payments decreasing...In trouble surely. No results for last season yet. Birmingham- Failed! Missed it by varying calculations, £11.4m, primarily through their big loss last season of £37.5m!! (FFP allowances take it down to 'only' £34.3m). Surely require a points deduction this season or next- the double whammy comes that after this season, their starting point will be that £34.3m loss which means they can lose £2.35m per season after costs to 2020/21- huge challenge...oh and wages last season apparently 200% or so of turnover. Blackburn- Hard to say as Venkys London results differ a bit to their accounts, the latter of which hasn't been published for last season. However should be compliant this year due to relatively low loss in 16/17 plus an excellent saleable asset in Dack if they need. Probably will be alright but won't be able to push the boat out without sales etc .No results for last season yet though Venky's London a good estimate and should be fine for this year, after unsure. Bolton- FFP no problems at all. Their problems seem to be cash based as opposed to FFP but nowhere near the loss limit of £39m I think thanks to a small loss in 2016/17 of £4.4m, or if we're taking the 3 years into account to last season, they lost only £6.1m in 2015/16 and that's before deducting any costs. Transfer embargo and wage limits surely helped them quite big in this respect. However since the lack of investment form owners, they probably won't roll the dice even though they most definitely could. No results for last season yet. Brentford- No accounts for last season but before any deductions, lost around £13.7m over 2 seasons i.e. 15/16 and 16/17 and if the starting point last season, their position even better. Player sales still probably necessary most years but with Benham and his wealth, combined with the excellent results for 16/17 they can pick and choose a bit- perhaps even roll the dice one year. Similarities to us model wise? However we have the better facilities, higher gates so our model is like a Brentford Plus IMO. No results for last season yet. Derby- In a bit of a tight spot for the 3 years to last season but probably compliant. Also been making some big sales in recent years which helps to offset a bit, £22.5m over 15/16 and 16/17. No results for last season yet. Hull- The Allams don't like spending money and want out. Their FFP position is fine but could face a cash crunch with the reduction in parachute payments- very unexpected revival for them also. Seem to be placed okay but it may change and can depend on the owners too. Parachute payments end after this season- £41m, £33m then...£0. Ipswich- Absolutely no issues with FFP, problem for them looks like being relegation- departures of McCarthy, Waghorn, McGoldrick and Garner in one summer the final straw. Leeds- I'd have thought fine FFP wise, may change a bit if Bielsa is on a big whack. Spent a bit last 2 seasons, however made a small profit in 16/17 plus made sales each summer too. No results for last season yet. Middlesbrough- Should be fine FFP wise, but spent a lot last season- big sales too though. This and last season saw Parachute Payments of £41m and £33m- but they run out from next season. No results for last season but big sales this summer surely helps? Millwall- Released results. Not a big spending club but could give it a go if owners wanted. Roughly lost £18m before exclusions in the 3 years to last season, if we include the 2 years before this then it's about £10.85m over 2. Nowhere near. Norwich- Parachute Payments gone this season, but a low loss in 16/17 and a good profit- lot of wriggle room and may even be fine for next season too given the 3 year cycle starting in 17/18 to next saw a good profit and writedown of players also removes future costs. Usually fairly prudent aren't they? Nottingham Forest- Fine for this season probably, owing to a relatively low loss in 16/17, player sales and Brereton sale for £7m- academy sees it as pure profit. Next season though if they don't go up could see a different picture. Maybe like another Birmingham but not quite as bad- hamstrung though most definitely, but not necessarily a total disaster. No results for last season yet. Preston- Should be fine FFP wise. Not exactly big spenders, could give it a go if they wanted. Lost about £4m in the 2 years to 16/17, which is exceptional for Championship IMO. No results for last season yet. QPR- The most punished so far and yet it wasn't enough. Should due to Parachute Payments be compliant for the 3 years to last season and even the 3 years to this season. Thereafter? A huge challenge- their income will plunge by between 40-50% next season. Lost about £17.4m in the 2 years to 2016/17. No results for last season yet. Reading- Lost after excluding their loan write off about £19.62m to the years of 15/16 and 16/17. Should be fine for the 3 years to last season and low losses in 16/17 mean fine for this- next season is where their problems should begin, that is if they stay up. No results for last season yet. Rotherham- No bother at all. Lost £2.6-£2.7m in total pre exclusions the 2 seasons to 16/17. Could probably give it a go if the chairman wanted but they probably are fairly happy with their lot. No results for last season yet. Sheffield United- Lost about £14.2m before exclusions in the 2 seasons to 16/17. No bother surely? About £5.7 in 16/17, can't see them being in trouble though expenditure has increased. Brooks sale a big profit. No results for last season yet. Sheffield Wednesday- FFP trouble surely? Especially given how the losses more than doubled in 16/17, surprised they haven't had to flog Reach, Bannan and Forestieri- at least not including certain players in the squad gave a message they were trying to do something albeit a bit too late. No results for last season yet. Stoke- Bit of a surprise but they might be in trouble. Certainly next season ones to watch for that- they lost £31.9m or thereabouts and though it included write-downs of around £29m and the PL has a higher loss limit, when that cash plunges...surely if they are midtable in January 2020 say, they start some big sales, if not sooner. However they also made that loss despite all that TV money and a profit on player sales of £22m that season...could the firesale be sooner?? Relegation wage clauses. Swansea- Profit of almost £13m in 2016/17. That stands them in very decent stead for FFP this season, made big player sales too this season though not necessarily always big profits with amortisation etc. Think absolutely fine FFP wise and probably next season too. Possibly even started cutting a bit too much too soon, but then again if their owners don't invest much it maybe quite needed. No results for last season yet. Relegation wage clauses. West Brom- Posted a profit of £32,147,000 in 2016/17. Should be absolutely fine FFP wise for this season, but last season that huge profit apparently transformed into requiring a bank overdraft. No results for last season yet. Relegation wage clauses. Wigan- Should be absolutely fine for the 3 years to this season- final year of Parachute Payments saw a profit of £4.3m in fact. After that, it gets tougher- can't see them troubling the top of the League in any case. No results for last season yet. Therefore as we can see- and I really should present it on a spreadsheet or something- while there are still quite a few financial positions to be finalised, we actually are in not too bad a position and definitely if we only add steadily next season too, then summer 2020 we can really splash the cash. Or we could roll the dice a little next season, knowing that it would be restricted the following season- though a big sale of Kelly would change the equation significantly. The question I guess is whether it will be enforced correctly but clubs in big trouble at this stage include: Birmingham, Aston Villa and Sheffield Wednesday. Those with a decent challenge ahead of them may include Derby, Middlesbrough, Nottingham Forest, QPR and Reading. Blackburn and Wigan will see money tight. The unknowns include the PL relegated sides but Stoke seem in trouble. Teams like Bolton, Millwall, Preston and Rotherham actually could have a go but can't see their owners doing this. Brentford also maybe able to have a go and I can see their owner trying it. 6 of these sides will leave the division at the end of the season- hopefully one is us upwards (though unsure that's so likely). Of those looking like coming up, Sunderland may well be a danger next season as naturally big club, Portsmouth seem to have momentum but beyond that not too much to worry about. As to those likely to enter from PL. Huddersfield will be able to splash the cash if they want, sure their accounts absolutely fine and you throw in the higher loss limits PL, parachute payments, their likely profit last and this season...Southampton of course a big club at this level so maybe a danger but unsure of their finances, seem a fairly sensibly run club though financially speaking. Fulham haven't clicked but should barring a firesale have enough to be up the higher end. Seem to be quite a few clubs who will be in trouble or hamstrung however over next season and the season after...opportunity for us maybe? Has to be enforced correctly though or we may as well scrap it!

Yeah but it is Championship Ready crap....

Mansfield did ok with a pirate on their chests!

To be fair he spoke very well on radio Bristol this morning....said a lot about how he only wants players who want to wear the badge on their chest and give everything to ‘keep the jersey’ - he said those that don’t can leave....I wonder if the entire playing staff left today after hearing that!

I do see what he's saying, but really both A) and B) should be punished by the EFL- but for different reasons.

What is it with that lot and animals? There was Darrell and his love of dogs, the supporters and their attraction to punching horses. . . and I hear that Irene is fond of a cockatoo.

Unable to comment further! I have been scarred for life...

Has anyone enquired after his mothers profession though, or are we just taking that for granted?

Fully agree, though it's the kind of thing that multiple clubs need to do at the same time, otherwise the one doing it could see themselves drop rapidly as players leave to join the clubs continuing to pay over the odds.

Look, I know this will attract lots of scathing comments about women’s football, and plenty on OTIB see them as “nothing to do with us”. I confess I myself don’t actually watch them. That said, they ARE a part of Bristol City, they HAVE just won away at Everton, and there are four clubs below them in their league, including Liverpool and Everton. Seventh in the country and in no danger of relegation. So, well done them.

Only if Man A is a celiac vegan with a nut allergy

In fairness to him , I think that's the point he's making. At least that's how I took it.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/scmp.php

If I go to a restaurant and buy a huge meal could I get the price reduced by offering them a buy back clause or a sell on fee?

Not only are their young supporters forced to watch crap, it would appear from that photo that they're forced to walk through it to get to the grotto too!

Reminds me, what is happening about Rooney?

Speaking from experience Major ?

Cock?

Would depend on the reasons for him resigning. If he was promised new training facilities, a transfer budget and a poodle, and all Wally could come up with was 3 stolen traffic cones and a calendar from Battersea, then he could say he was forced to resign and his career was being damaged, especially as he turned down a more lucrative opportunity to stay. Could just be that he woke up one morning and thought... 'sod this for a game of soilders, I'm off'. Two different reasons for resignation, one unlikely to see compensation paid, the other might be a more negotiated position. Either way, why would a fan know the terms?

Pictures of @Rudolf Hucker ??? ?

I was chatting to a Birmingham fan at the weekend - admittedly he doesn't pay a great deal of attention to the finances but assumed they were in some pretty dire straights - the Brum/Villa debate up here is; is an aggravated breach worse than blatantly flouting the rules? Without getting into the realms of valuing players as assets (which I don't think you can do) there isn't much difference. Previous reports suggested a possible 21 points could be docked but 12 + 3 makes sense because it makes an example without limiting the EFL's options for future cases. I was trying to navigate the SCMP rules before posting - it looks like, any contract signed before September of the season a team was relegated can be excluded. Sunderland would be fine I assume, City had an exemption based on the ground being developed I think? But we did also have a remarkably small (but perfectly formed) squad for that season.

Some interesting financial reading and figures from twitter.....go to SwissRamble's feed for lots of charts

Something like "I'd better be careful how I answer - it's Cocklan" (phonetically obviously)! Even he knows it...

Yes they deserve all the credit, like the men's team they lost talent in the summer and I was concerned that the women's game would become dominated by the same teams that dominate the men's game. It seems that the women are coping with the losses as well as the men's team, well done.

I see they had a Home draw with Man City today. Good result.

‘Until the end of the season’ ?

Tbf we’ve plenty in this forum doing the same.

You do realise that will now go down in BRFC folklore "he turned da shit down Wat a legend" etc

Time for a change of username @GrahamC to avoid any confusion?

Good News! EFL have appointed Dianne Abbott as their head of ffp compliance.

Their greatest ever manager, who’s bound to go on to greater things and manage at a higher level according to the fewers and some on here too, is being linked with jobs at the mighty Carlisle and Oldham ? greater things yes, higher level? No chance.

I’ve no idea if there is a sell-on clause but if there is we should let him go on a free transfer.

Really interesting topic and even with allowances for the uncertainty of recent accounts, it backs up the feeling that teams like Villa are in a perilous place without promotion this season. One of the problems that I see is that without comprehensive penalties being applied to the FFP flouting clubs, the Championship will continue to be a 'death zone'. Clubs cannot exist sustainably at this level. If Preston and Rotherham can't do it, none of us can with the level of footballing talent that exists in this division. If FFP is applied properly and parachute payments cease to be the enormous incentive that they have been to date then clubs will have to bring their overall squad value down in line with the money that is actually available to them without year on year multimillion pound losses. In reality, that's never going to happen because enough club owners will continue to flout the rules or gamble on coping with FFP penalties. So, for a club like City there's a choice. Push for promotion and then exist within our means in the Premiership. Or be the big fish in a small League 1 pond. Talk of sustainability in the Championship is a non-starter.