Leaderboard

I should stay away from this thread but couldn't resist posting this from a Sunderland fan I know ?

I must have blinked when that happened

I get the impression some people are a bit miffed that LJ had the balls to take the Sunderland job. People who dislike him were fond of the idea that he benefitted from his relationship with the Lansdown family (true) and wouldn’t get another ‘big job’ from his own merit. I find it a bit odd how there are some who’d love him to fail at Sunderland. I appreciate his personality is a bit grating, but he gave his all for us and ultimately left the club in a stronger position than he found it. In my opinion we should be happy for him to do well - same way we should be for Cotterill. Both good men who gave this job their all and improved the club’s situation.

If that’s the case, then that must mean this classic clip is also 5 years old! Credit to @Ska Junkie !

I think the problem is that people are naturally very selective with what they remember about managers. It's selective to ignore the utterly superb job Steve Cotterill did in League One, and the brilliant football we made, but it's equally selective to ignore the fact he was doing a very good job of taking us back there when he got sacked. Meanwhile Lee Johnson did a good job in parts - the League Cup run, turning a relegation threatened side into promotion challengers - but we had the dire losing streak in his second season and, as you say, we went through several awful spells in his last season. We were dreadful in January and February and then abysmal when we came back after the restart. There's no doubt at all that it was time for Johnson to go but we were very decent for spells under him. There is no doubt that we were brilliant in 2014/2015 underr Cotterill but we were dreadful in 15/16 and would have been relegated without a change of manager. People seem to feel the need to set up this slightly bizarre Cotterill fan vs Johnson fan rivalry where they wholly praise one and wholly trash the other but, with both managers, it was way more complex than that.

We needed a "breath of fresh air," remember, and a freshing up after 4 years - that was the considered opinion of the owner. As well as the baying crowd. And LJ, too, perhaps, needed a refresh, and a reboot. To "go again." We were 12th, going down the table, and backwards, playing tedious low-shoot/chance football, and playing blokes like Afobe wide left. We were well on the way towards the shite we've seen this season when Lee was fired, with quite a few fewer injuries. We needed a break from him, and he needed a break from us/here. SL got that bit right! Now he has a second go at getting LJ's replacement and the fabled "breath of fresh air" right. This season has made it too easy to forget how poor we were under Lee by the end, and the direction of travel of this club under the Ashton/Johnson partnership.

if his name was John Leeson, people would be talking about him as one of the better city managers, alot lot of hate lee gets is purely due to him being lee johnson from people who never liked him as a player

Define achievements? He saved us from relegation and turned us into a solid Championship side, challenging in and around the play offs. He got us our best cup run in 30 years, beating the biggest club in the country and going toe to toe with the best team in the world at the time over 2 legs. We played some of the best football I've ever seen from City, especially when you consider the level we were at (Cotts team was fantastic, but it was L1 football) The end was shit, and it was probably the right time for him to go, but it's nonsense to say he didn't achieve anything here.

I’d agree with all of that. I think the other issue with Johnson is that he never had a good entire season and tended to end seasons badly. We played some lovely stuff at times in both 17/18 and 18/19 but the overriding feeling at the end of both seasons was one of disappointment and missed opportunity.

I never knew the words to that before...:D

Can't believe you wanted to get rid of TC. Surely you can't mean Top Cat: Top Cat! The most effectual! Top Cat! Who's intellectual! Close friends get to call him "T.C.," Providing it's with dignity! Top Cat! The indisputable leader of the gang. He's the boss, he's a VIP, he's a championship. He's the most tip top, Top Cat.

Thinking back over the past 40 years I'd say that Cotts managed the club through one of it most joyous seasons, just wonderful. Week in, week out, home and away, great players, great action, great spirit about the place. 6-0 to secure promotion, what a night! 8 goals on the last day of the season...come on, it's hardly surprising people remember him fondly! Of course it always ends in tears. My wife was recently reminding me that at the end I was calling for TC to go.

I see the Sags are still concerned that appointing Joey Barton will spoil their image , and reputation as a ‘Family Club’ ? Meanwhile one of the sags has other concerns if Barton arrives ? If it is Barton I bloody hope he doesn't live in the city centre. I still spot Darrell **** off dogs stickers in and around the city. Its not the kindest of rivalries.

And Twerton.

I know, mate. It just came into my head for some reason - started drinking early today Had to copy and paste the words, mind. Far too long ago to remember.

I went on to the Sunderland forum to give them some insight into what they could expect from LJ as a gesture of goodwill amongst football fans - what an ignorant bunch!

But I wonder how many of us now have that song in our heads....

I have to confess I did! Sad I know... For the record in my original post wasn't referring to Top Cat btw.

I was thinking EU blue; pesky rejoiners...!

I was never his greatest fan as a player, but felt he got unfair stick, maybe in part for being his Dad's son. Yes, the things he said and did sometimes were a bit cringe-making, but I wonder whether the ego and the arrogance - not a million miles from self-confidence and self belief - are qualities that a football manager needs. A bit like strikers needing to be greedy because hey have the same self confidence. At the end of the day that's maybe what enabled him to manage his way through those poor runs in a way that DH never looked likely to do. And why those poor runs never, I think, saw 3-4 successively more gutless performances in the way we've seen recently. Not always an attractive trait but maybe something a manager needs to have. I always felt that towards the end he slightly lost that: I don't know whether it was the self belief that went, or his belief that the club believed in him: I think the departures of Webster and of Brownhill really dented him - timing wise as much as anything, and he lost a bit of that confidence in his ability to bounce back from that. But overall I still think he's one of the minority of managers in recent years who've left us in a better place than when he arrived. And he certainly doesn't deserve some of the vitriol he got at the time, not the weird delight some still take every time he loses.

I remember Eastville was lit up red...

That’s great. Regardless whether they’re punching below their weight for a club of their size, you can see how delighted the Sunderland fans are after the time they’ve had over the last few years. They’d definitely sell their end of Wembley and more if fans were able to go.

Equivalent to us being in Europe in 5 years! ???

If they make it to the Championship, I think that is a bigger achievement than Leicester title win. That's been years and years of good management, good decisions being made on and off the pitch by Accrington Stanley, let alone the fact they truly are a Community football club, some real Roy of the Rovers stuff really

That seems fair enough to me.

The covers were put on the pitch after the game on Tuesday night. When the covers were removed today, there was one small area of the pitch which was frozen - portable heaters were put around this area, which resolved the problem. There is a video of a groundsman inserting a probe in the ground, you can see that the ground is not frozen and the soil temperature is above freezing. Once the game had been called off, Rovers suggested that it could be played tomorrow, EFL were fine with this, it just needed Swindon to agree - but apparently they cannot travel to Bristol tomorrow (which is their perrogative). Our CEO has complained to the EFL and referees' association about the ref's decision to call the game off. Swindon have your young keeper on loan, who will not have had much time to train with his new team mates. They have also suspended 3 first team players for missing a team meeting - yet you think it was us who wanted the game called off! Still, don't let the facts get in the way of your blinkered opinion.

Can't remember the ins and outs of it but I'm pretty sure it was done at such a time Cotts couldn't say bye to the players. Great way to treat one of the only men who's ever needed the keys to the trophy cabinet.

SC is mad as a box of frogs, and anyone that has spent even a short time in his company (as I have, and know others that have spent much more time with him) would tell you that. Did he sometimes come across as calm, polite and amiable? Yes. Did he also have a foul temper and was liable to unprovoked rants where he would come across as unhinged? Yes. At Pompey he was intensely disliked by players, staff and supporters. His half-time talks would frequently be heard pitchside as he screamed at players, one time memorably going around the changing room and pointing at each player and screaming "****" in their faces. He was said to be bitter about what the players earned and frequently raised their salaries in rants. When he came back managing Forest he allegedly threatened to stab Dave Kitson outside the players entrance. He was frequently rude and aggressive to members of staff, a trait followed through at Ashton Gate, screaming at groundstaff among others. The latter just does not fit into modern football management and with SC it is always a matter of time before he blows up, as he did at City. Did he have legitimate grievances? Yes. Were the Lansdown family partly responsible for screwing up summer 2015? Yes. But he could have played the hand he was given much better than he did, and no offence to the revisionists but within just a couple of months LJ had turned the team around from getting pumped 3-0 at the likes of Rotherham to beating Sheff Weds 4-1 at home, guiding us to safety comfortably. People are mocking opposition fans' opinions of LJ. Go on some football forums - other than this one - and find me anything other than mocking and ridicule of SC. Not saying it's justified, but the reality is he has a poor reputation and that is part of the reason he has been out of work for so long. Shrewsbury is a perfect job for him and he will do well, but let's not pretend that makes him suitable for this job right now, or that it was anything other than the right decision to sack him back in 2016.

He had the finances to make a star studded league one side. Baldock was sold very close to deadline day iirc, we’d already spent a fair whack on some very good players before he left, so you can’t really use that as an excuse. If you were, you should then use that as the excuse for Johnson’s spending as well surely? Look at what O’Driscoll had to work with, and then what Cotts had to work with. Was that fair?

Cotterill gave us a fantastic season and promotion. Johnson gave us an unforgettable cup run and established us as a respected Championship club. Both had their strengths. Both had their weaknesses. It unravelled for both, in different ways, towards the end. I don’t get why for so many people liking one seems to require belittling the achievements of the other. Between the two of them the club progressed in a way no other did and in a way we certainly didn’t manage when we were chopping and changing managers every year with Pulis, SOD, McInnes etc etc

Nailed it for me Spudski. Like many, many people I was underwhelmed when Johnson came in. But, after a while and reading a few things , I was impressed with his eagerness to study and learn other tactics and styles. I thought he doing the right thing with his 1% and all that looking at everything trying to improve. The problem came when he was unable to pick out the few bits, the best bits, the things he could use to make an effective side. He got confused and tried to throw everything at it and passed that confusion onto the players. Totally agree with you that they ended up hiding. We are struggling to put that right still. This is where I was hoping for an experienced man to come in, shake it up but with simple straight forward ideas. What we have (seemingly) is LJ 2.0. The Club head to toe , 2 assistants apart, is the same as it was 18 months ago, but the coach has 2/3 years less experience and knowledge.

It's sad how people talk about him He didn't do much wrong here except talk a bit of nonsense and ultimately the football went a bit stale, as it does with every manager at every club in the world at some point. As a person, he's not done anything to make him a "cretin". He's a decent bloke who worked bloody hard to at least TRY and get success for this club. If he outstayed his welcome that's not his fault, it's the people above him

I very much suspect the unofficial arrival of Ashton in Dec 2015 (officially appointed in January), to prepare his sacking might’ve caused the flip / row. Especially when SOD and Burt, then Cotts and Burt had chucked all Ashton’s 2012 Recruitment stuff in the bin. Cotts knew he was a gonner. One day I’m gonna stalk him at Millennium Square and ask him!!! ??? Pretty sly from SL to sack Cotts by text (allegedly). Pretty sly from SL to sack Cotts the evening he’d done his afternoon pre-match presser. Pretty sly from SL to appoint Ashton (officially) two days later. There is still a 2012 Ashton recommendation in the Recruitment Analysis team, and a mate of Jon Lansdowns too, who I understand has had a variety of jobs until they found one they could hide him in.

This is bollocks, the cheque book was open to Cotts but he tried to spend it all on one player, twice, and not even in the most important position at the time. When that failed he decided to throw his toys out of the pram and leave spaces on the bench rather even give some of the kids a bit of experience. I don't know why we have to keep going over this, we had one wonderful season which we are all grateful for, but he was the one that tried to initiate a power grab on the back of it and failed. If we were getting any decent results in this league, he might have succeeded.

He was potentially taking us straight back down in Jan 2016- did you miss that key point?