Leaderboard

Looking back over Derby’s last few seasons, they are littered with irony. As a generalisation, it must be ( for Derby fans who lauded his actions as being clever than the EFL) bitter irony that the ffp system that Mel Morris worked so hard to circumvent was put in place to protect clubs from the activities of owners just like him and avoid exactly what has now happened. It is ironic that, when eventually bought to book for having cheated the system, Mel Morris proudly announced that because of the transfer embargo they would have to play youngsters and use their academy, as though he was the first to have thought of that idea. The irony being that other clubs had taken just that step, among others, in order to comply with ffp when the new rules came into being. Had they taken the same steps, then they would not have been facing embargo and worse that was to follow. In the same statement, Mel Morris also said that had they complied with the new ffp rules, it would have made Derby less competitive on the pitch. The irony is that had he taken the right steps at the right time then, while it might have made them less competitive, ( in just the same way it did for many other clubs that did take the right steps in order to comply) they would at least remain relatively competitive in the championship, rather than contemplating life in league 1 -that is if they still exist after this season. How long have we had to listen to Derby fans telling all those criticising the actions of Morris over the sale of Pride Park and , more recently, their accounting practices, that other clubs’ fans’ are just jealous that they didn’t /couldn’t do the same, and how Morris has had one over the EFL. The irony is that those same fans are now not only contemplating relegation this season, but must genuinely be worried about the future of their club. Rather than looking for third parties to blame, in particular Steve Gibson and the EFL, most now realise that the focus for their anger is, and always should have been , the club’s owner - the man they believed and lauded as though he was some sort of knight in shining armour fighting back against the EFL, who of course had a vendetta against Morris and Derby. The ultimate irony is that, had Morris bitten the bullet at the first ffp reckoning, admitted a breach of ffp limits and taken a points deduction, the worst outcome would have been no chance of promotion. It is also likely the EFL would have organised a business plan, as they have with others, which would have put Derby in a much better position to cope with the financial effects of the pandemic. This in turn would have likely avoided the need for administration and the club would have retained ownership of Pride Park. Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I bet that Morris wishes he could turn back the clock, as do the Derby fans. Luckily we have an owner that exercised foresight as far as ffp was concerned, rather than hindsight and, while he might not get all his decisions right, I for one would rather the club be in his hands going forward.

LJ's celebration was clearly spur of the moment, it showed a human side and it turned out there was a nice back story for the press to get their teeth into. That spontaneity is completely opposite to this clearly prepared "moment" that just "happened" to get captured on an iPhone or whatever.

Try reading the posters name backwards :laugh:

Yes he was really ill with depression, And as a suffer of depression and knowing first hand how it can effect you and your work, Hunt has all my sympathy and more, the way I look back on in is a player who was basically our "injured" for his entire time here through no fault of his own Dani Rodriguez or elokobi if you will It wasn't a stolen living it was someone who was mentally ill

LJ celebrating a last minute winner against one of the biggest clubs in the world. Ashton celebrating a lucky one nil'er against Lincoln bloody City to drag them out of the third division relegation zone ?

That’s a very long pub crawl.

And therein lies the problem with fans. We emotionally support a club and indulge using terms such as 'us', 'ours', 'we', save it isn't ours and never will be. It's not our debt, it's not our money, not our club, it's SL's. In his case it makes sod all difference whether or not the club owns the ground, he owns the whole shebang, on his own, outright. And that's why muppets who criticise for him not investing further in stupid purchases are nothing but deluded. They think they have a 'right' to dictate the club's future, they think they should have a say, yet don't have the wherewithal to make a difference. Just be thankful we've a benefactor with deep pockets who, for now, is happy to indulge us in our hobby. Shame those ingrates who anonymously berate him on social media don't realise they're the ones making it more likely he'll one day decide he's had enough. Don't bite the hand that feeds.

On the Rooney/32Red thing. It's bit weird, and I don't like the precedent it kind of sets...but I can't see how it is something they should be punished for. Is it so different from what many, many clubs (including our own) do (or used to do) with inviting local businesses to sponsor certain players? The profile of the player and the sums involved might be bigger, but the principle is surely the same - that the club get money to pay for a player, and the business gets the kudos of being associated with that player. That Rooney wore 32 as part of it is just an element of the agreed contract. Perhaps there is an argument that if the 32Red 'sponsorship' was the defining reason that allowed Derby to sign him, and that without it he would not have signed, then maybe there are more questions to ask...but I suspect it would still be broadly ok. I'm also really not sure that it is true 'third-party ownership' as we understand it, and as we have seen used in S. America, and at times in high profile cases like Tevez and Mascherano. To my knowledge 32Red have at no point owned any of the economic benefit of Rooney's contract. For example had he been sold they wouldn't have benefited from that sale, and got no benefit from the licensing of Rooney's image rights or other economic assets. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it, especially given the industry that 32Red are in, but I'm not sure this is the thing to be trying to punish Derby over.

It would look even better if the further deduction of 9 points for FFP breaches was applied and it read minus 11.

Then they are Marillion and we are Genesis. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Would love our Purple and Lime kit to be a permanent away kit.

But a high risk you will never get your money back given the existing level of debt?

Most of the press conference is available on BBC Sounds - Ian Skye - Steve Jordan sits in (23/09/2021) - BBC Sounds it starts just after 11 am. My views are: 1. This was part of a PR campaign. 2. No one has expressed firm interest. 3. It would never be good to admit that you have to sell players in January. 4. Funding the £5 million or so required to get the club to January is not guaranteed. 5. In fact nothing is guaranteed.

Never imagined seeing the words "Derby", "Creative" and "Accounting" in a post on here ???

Just to ensure that the record is correct Morris does not own the Stadium so he cannot do anything with it. The Stadium is owned by a company that Morris owns, but it has a charge or two on it in respect of the debt owed to MSD. So it can't be sold or given away until that charge is paid up in full (including interest, default interest along with the costs and fees of lender). It would also appear that that company, or a parent owed the football club the purchase price in June 2018. If that is still the case (no one outside a small group knows as no accounts have ben submitted since then) then the Administrators will have to seek to recover the debt from the Stadium companies, which I guess will force the Stadium companies into administration or liquidation, which will mean that MSD will control everything. If of course the Stadium companies have paid for the stadium in full then it is difficult to see how the Football Club is in administration.

Priceless ! "On a recent occasion on a Saturday morning, a ball hit our gates so hard we thought a car had driven into them''. "I went out and confronted the players and was passed over to the manager, Joey Barton. I've never heard of him but after a bit of a discussion, he agreed that they would try and refrain from kicking balls into our garden''.

Question is, why would anyone film this pompous buffoon parading in front of the fans like he'd scored the winning goal? Ashton has obviously had this cameraman primed ready, to film him going bananas like a demented banshee, the start of the season. But unfortunately for him, until this Lincoln game, Ipswich simply couldn't win. Well, he's finally managed to get himself centre-stage and in the spotlight. I bet he's made all his family and friends watch the video over and over again. Let's see what happens when Ipswich revert back to imploding. Their next opponents are Sheffield Wednesday.

I wondered what the medal was for around his neck and so I zoomed in ... I thought he was too modest to boast of his conquests?!

What the **** do you think you’re playing at???

Well we know all about their geographical knowledge already, so that makes sense.

Why won’t AJ win on points can I ask,Usyk couldn’t out box Del Boy and AJ has shown in recent fights that he boxes just fine

As I understand it. Those accounts to which he was referring were to 2018, ie the 3 years to 2018. These using the EFL's preferred method or restatement or whatever, showed a loss of £4m or that equated to 4 points- he was a bit vague on the precise nature. That's separate to anything thereafter, ie 2019 and beyond- but the proposed settlement- wholly separate for the -12 into admin- was: Initial deduction instantly applied of 9 points A further 3 points suspended A business plan- as part of the current and ongoing P&S requirements to ensure compliance at all times. This therefore I believe would be there to cover it all, everything up to the present- an all in one approach.

I'd say it's more akin to Holden doing a photoshoot down The Lions. Not anywhere near as bad as Ashton, but very much staged and trying to show he was one of us compared to the previous manager. Nothing against Holden though. Quite possible that Ashton was the one who suggested it.

Was on sky sports just over a week ago saying they had agreed a reduced 9point deduction, the efl often accept as it saves on court costs etc but if not agreed can actually be more points

Depends when they finish auditing all the accounts But I expect it will by by the end of October With further punishments possible

My summary: Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive! Big Tone style summary: When you're in a shithole in the midlands, stop digging

Started off my stag night pub crawl from the Cotham Porter Stores in the 80's. It's still going strong, or was before lockdown. Went to a pub quiz there about 2 years ago.

All agreed. Unlikely. The stadium sale was in 2018. The MSD Charges were put in place in August and November 2020. So it looks like the MSD money was used to fund cash flow across all entities not for payment for the stadium. It may not have paid anything. Exactly. Along with Cocu and Keogh and the late payment of transfer fees. The alternative is that they have burnt through £81 million cash in roughly three years. I could have paid off all the debts and still had a great time with the remaining £20 million or so ..........

More like Kingdom Come and Led Zeppelin.

Please no. Neither are club colours.

But is there any evidence rent has ever been paid? It's not in the investment holding accounts and Gellaw 203 (I hope you're sitting down,) have yet to file accounts which are long overdue. As you say, £1.1m per season in rent would give nowhere near a valuation of £81m for the stadium.

Sounds like Nogbad is the man to write a book about Bristol pubs, great knowledge and I’m sure a lot of research done over the years. I used to live near Cotham Porter Stores, a pub I could easily get very Merry in even if I just popped in for a quick one. I don’t suppose it’s there anymore.

That makes no sense. The company (capitalised at £1) who owns the stadium (as supposedly an investment vehicle,) values the asset at just over £81m but has creditors within one year at just over £3k more than the value of the asset. Interestingly, one might have assumed to see rental income in their accounts but none appears, hence they'll doubtless argue it appears as a 'capital appreciation vehicle' only. Therein lies one huge problem. The value of the asset is intrinsically linked to the amount of income it might generate, plus wider land/asset appreciation. The £81m figure was doubtless reached by considering a legal commitment by Derby County FC to lease the stadium back at £Xm per season for Y seasons. Now if they forego that, what other entity might desire to lease a Sports Stadium in Derby and at what price? If the answer is nobody or peanuts, the asset value downgrades overnight and one wonders whether creditor loans (where the money came to buy it in the first place) are secured against the freehold or lease income? Giving the stadium to the Administrator makes little sense as it strengthens funds available to creditors and lessens the prospect of getting monies back to those who purchased the stadium. The only reason for so doing would be high poker stakes, if one thought long-term Derby would come good, start making a Kings ransom and one might claw that back through club profits not the stadium vehicle (assuming one still held a stake in the club.) Pigs will fly first.

It's all over the Internet so surely that means it must be true?!

10-wicket haul for Gohar now. County Championship win number EIGHT to be wrapped up inside two days.

I still have PTSD from the Leeds away game… I’m not quite ready to have Nicky hunt back in my life just yet.

He's obviously switched to Just For Men. Although I'm sure he puts his thumb over the N when he's using it...!!

He's also Hydromatic. Why, he's Greased Lightning!!...

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/itfc-ceo-mark-ashton-on-scouting-and-recruitment-8288248 The Ego has landed....... “The guys who are working with me, Paul (Cook) included, are getting used to how I work. I'm systematic. I like to be considered in my judgements and I like us to work professionally." And one for you Brent fans out there.... “That’s fine. We are where we are right now. We’ll build the aeroplane while we’re in flight, as someone once said."

Not these days KW I'll grant you. Doesn't change the principal of the thing though.

There are trend setters, and followers

I’ve just cleaned out our cat’s litter and can confirm that you are indeed absolutely correct. Having said that I would also add that our cat is a lot cleaner!

Sure they're not just playing on the streets...

As a caution, we also like to feel and for god reason that SL keeps us going. Just imagine what would happen f one day he just said "enough". We would be in exactly the same position. We do not own the ground as a football club, and our debts are huge and our cash flow such we would melt down in weeks. Football is a broken system, there is so much money in the game, yet the businesses are allowed to be run with the most incredible accounting results and manipulation. There is more than enough money generated in the game for it to function in a very sustainable manner, yet clubs continue to over pay wages in the search for success. The guarantees for the debts and loans look to be written in the sand. Owners build up debts knowing the business is ring fenced and they can walk away. The Championship is the most idiotic set up of any sport, where some competitors are paid vast sums for failure. Getting rid of parachute payments should start to bring some wage sanity. Then some. But even our club, what on earth were we doing with a £30m plus wage bll . Madness.

Mel Morris is fully to blame for this. He went on a wild spending spree hoping to get to the Prem , but forgot to pay his bills. He may have spent 200M , but the debts are such you have to doubt he has actually spent it in cash terms. Does the ground get included in the administration process ? I doubt. He had the money to get Derby through to a buyer , but has chosen to let them possibly die. Derby fans should be spitting about that man. FFP fair play is one thing, but when someone knowingly piles up debt with no desire to pay it back, it is fraudulent. He owes HMRC £20 m . He allowed that to happen, yet he will still have his £300/400m safe at home. There is no gun to the head of anyone in football to pay wages to players they cannot afford. Owners do it , and they keep doing it, and keep paying players more than the business can afford. The banks, HMRC, accountants and the EFL need a long hard look at themselves, because this sort of nonsense is not happening over night. How the lot of them escape any fraud charges is beyond me.

Mr Tanner - Harry Chapin

Amazon might want something. :laugh:! This whole shitfest is tiring. So many disappearing up themselves trying to explain away this financial nightmare over months and years. The lies that have been told to cover up years of idiocy are horrific and now a diminishing group of supporters are prepared to keep arguing black is white. The hubris of some on the outside and inside of this is also insane, those on the outside often being egged on by people inside the club. The idea that the EFL are acting against the supporters of Derby County is insane, but they now finally have indisputable evidence that the owner and board of the club have been cheating since 2016 and that cheating has cost the league positions of other clubs (the points deductions would have relegated Derby at least once) this will cause problems for years to come Pick the bones out of this! The EFL having to appeal a decision made by an outside party that effectively exonerated this effed up nightmare of a club! Who on earth thinks that was a good idea! I read a thread earlier on DCFC FORUM about how the rules of the EFL should be changed. Yes they should, to stop a shiester from appealing to external panels and somehow obtaining rulings that are clearly flawed. Guess Mark Ashton could be brought bacK to the EFL THAT WILL LEARN EM! SIGH!

I can picture it for you. Jukebox just by the door on the left as you went in, (I used to put 'One for the Bristol City' on it) big seating area on both sides before you got to the bar which was facing right in front of you about 20ft in as you entered. Tables by the windows and more seating to the left hand side of the bar which extended in to L-shape, leading you to a dartboard area at the back. Dimly lit, increasingly as the night wore on, and the lock in commenced. Landlord, very humble, with fairly thick sandy/grey hair, a similar moustache, and glasses. There you go. ?

I nipped into their online shop, I do like to have a look at different teams to see what tat they sell. Ours is poor IMO, when I was going up to see the Brother in Law who's a big QPR supporter, I wanted some bits to spread around his house secretly. Anyway. I was thinking they have a lot more than us, but I came across this and what with them being so poor , I found this ironic. Get well soon Bristol R*vers ? Lets hope they don't

We’d probably be a League 1/Championship yo yo club like Rotherham. The only question really is given what Steve has ploughed in SHOULD we be more than a fairly solid (hasn’t felt that way recently though!!) Championship club or should we have had at least one go in the Premiership by now?