havanatopia

They all started in China. Lifestyle and laws could be amended to ensure cross over of diseases from animals to humans is minimalised; there is little to no evidence this has been enacted by Chinese authorities. Does this adequately explain?

Not sure where to begin on this?!!!! Perhaps I simply won't bother.

Very flimsy if charges have been dropped due to totally unrelated world events. Surely even the FL would not stoop so low?

If you do not have an account with the Spectator that link will only let you read so far I believe which is why I copied a lot of it verbatum and just added my thoughts at the end. I should have added the source.

Perhaps they are all Ukrainians from Chernobyl. Hardly matters then does it. ?

Here is the background to your question:- the latest figures from the Robert Koch Institute show that the country has a case fatality rate (CFR) of 0.3 per cent, while the World Health Organisation (WHO) figures from Italy seem to show a CFR of 9 per cent? To say there is a vast gulf between those figures is an understatement. If nine per cent of people who catch Covid-19 are going to die from it we are facing a calamity beyond parallel in the modern world. If only 0.3 per cent of people who catch it die from it, this pandemic may yet turn out to be no worse than seasonal flu which it is estimated, by the US Centers for Disease Control, to kill between 291,000 and 646,000 people a year without the world really noticing. According to John Hopkins University, which is collating fatalities data, 15,308 have died to date. and the probable reason... So which is closer to the real situation, Italy’s experience or Germany’s? Various theories have been put forward for Germany’s low death rate: for example that many of those who have tested positive for Covid-19 are young people who had returned from skiing holidays in Italy. The age profile for those who have tested positive in Germany is certainly much lower than in Italy: a median of 46-years-old as opposed to 63 in Italy. Some have expressed the fear that young German skiers will slowly infect their parents and grandparents’ generation, and that the death rate will steadily rise as the disease works its way through more vulnerable elderly people. Germany is almost certainly behind Italy in this epidemic. But the main difference between Germany and Italy lies in those countries’ respective attitudes towards testing. Germany has carried out far more enthusiastic testing of the general population – there does not seem to be a central figure for this, but the German Doctors’ Association has estimated that 200,000 people across the country have been tested. In Britain, it is 64,000 people. On the other hand, German hospitals do not routinely test for the presence of coronavirus in patients who are dying or who have died of other diseases. Italy, by contrast, is performing posthumous coronavirus tests on patients whose deaths might otherwise have been attributed to other causes. This matters hugely to the Case Fatality Rate for each country. CFR is not to be confused with the genuine Mortality Rate. The former is simply the number of deaths divided by the number of recorded cases. The latter is the number of deaths divided by the actual number of people who have been infected by the disease. Trouble is, nobody knows the latter figure because no country has tested its entire population to see who has or has had the disease. What we do know is that large numbers of people who have been confirmed as having the disease only have mild symptoms – 45 per cent according to Italy’s National Institute for Health. One in 10 have no symptoms at all. There must be many others who have been infected but haven’t been tested and therefore who do now show up as confirmed cases. It stands to reason that the more people who are tested, the more accurate a picture we will have of the mortality rate, the transmission rate and other metrics which will determine the eventual path of this pandemic. To underline the uncertainties behind the data from which policy is currently being made, the Royal Society of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine the other day estimated the number of people in Britain who already have or have had Covid-19 at between 6,000 and 23 million. That is a pretty broad spread with hugely different implications. If only 6,000 have the disease in Britain, socially-distancing the population or locking down society might have a purpose. If 23 million have the disease, it is pointless – it already has ripped its way through the population but without killing more than a tiny percentage. What we really need is a huge effort to test a large randomised sample of the population to see how widespread the infection is. Hopefully, that will soon happen. But in the meantime, I am minded to think that the more accurate picture of Covid-19 comes from the country which has conducted the most tests: Germany. In summary, and what I have said from early on, the ultimate death rate will be no more than 0.5% of those who contract it or, in the case of current data from Germany, even less. Still a ways to go but all the data, reliably being gathered, is pointing toward that. Flu, remember, is about 0.1%. The burning question then will be has it been worth it trashing the world's economies. The answer will probably be 'did we have any choice' ? But that will leave us with a thousand lessons to learn, worldwide, and hopefully next time, because there will for sure be others, the whole world will not need to shut down.

That is a tough one. Would you not all maintain that you are effectively one 'household' and therefore movement between the two homes is a natural thing for all of you? Think of it literally then as one home but different parts of it. This is a humanitarian family issue and I would think if outlined in this way the powers that be would fully accept and support that the welfare of children is paramount. Let's not forget, this is not the bubonic plague.

He is right about a few of those remarks. Just not PC is it. What a shame. There are at least 10 million Britons living abroad. Might take a while to fly back that many don't you think?

I am sure those costs are somewhere to be found. Be interesting to see people attempting to pin the blame elsewhere other than Labour. No doubt saying it's all Boris' fault simply for breathing. It will forever be thus considering the continuingly ageing demographic. And there will continue to be an ongoing argument or debate of more tax vis a vis a continuing free 'at point of delivery' service. There are no easy answers. Many people think there are and that simply throwing more money at it will give the optimal result. If only life were that simple.

Here is that video I was talking about in an earlier post about ventilators being categorically canned by this poor guy...

I watched Fractured the other night. I would rather our system for sure; by and large the NHS is fantastic.

Bit like many coastal towns yesterday.

Who mentioned ventilators? Anyway, something I came across this morning and I am still searching for a decent quality video to post concerns first hand experience of ventilator use by one Corona virus victim. So this guy explained that when he lay down in his hospital bed he felt all the symptoms, such as giddy head, aching body, dry cough etc melting away. He felt in a great place. But then the doctors noticed his breathing became laboured so they put him on a ventilator. This was fine for a little while but then they noticed that he was beginning to fall asleep and felt he could be slipping into a coma and cardiac rest. So they woke him up. And his pulse returned to normal. This happened more than once so they started to get him to sit up. This brought his heart rate back to even more stable but he had terrible pain when they did this and he vomited each time. His analogy; the ventilator gives you initial relief but it will kill you as your normal bodily functions shut down. He remains in hospital but is getting better. Now, must find that video because he explains it a whole lot better.

They most certainly are. Well worth buying one and take up no extra space. A quick adaptation of the existing Ideal Standard is also possible. Definitely the way forward. I shall be on line with these on eBay asap!

The one statistic I have bought into from the start is that approximately 60% of the world's population will probably contract a mild to fatal covid 19. Nothing we do will change that approximate percentage. You will likely see a world average of around 0.5% dying which is five times that of flu. Long way to go but these are my informed estimates based on the past, what we know and what I am reading and watching in informed quarters, i hasten to add, and not in the highly politicised arena. As others have said perhaps it is time, after all of this, to invest in washing with a B day or an adapted toilet. I have been doing it for 30 years. I love a good blast and feel nice and clean afterwards

World numbers range from 300k to 600k. Keeping the red flag flying I see.

Germany's stats hugely stand out. 4 times the cases of the UK with about 40% of the deaths. I think these stats are going to be all over the place until we are well past it because the testing is at different points of the graph.

Fair play chaps. It's moving all the time.

Worldometer says 180, up 3.

One interesting question I would pose from those stats is that perhaps in 'normal' times a bit more self distancing of flu sufferers could save a few hundred lives a year. It will be interesting to see if we come out of this and maintain some more sensible habits.

From Coffee House @ The Spectator By Ross Clark Could measures we’ve taken to stop Covid-19 already be saving lives? 20 March 2020, 12:15am Text Comments Perspective is a bit in short supply at the moment but if you want a brief respite from the onslaught of bad news, take a look at these statistics. They are Office for National Statistics figures for the total numbers of deaths from respiratory diseases in England and Wales for February this year, compared with last year. 2019 2020 7 February 1,918 1,572 (-346) 14 February 1,931 1,586 (-345) 21 February 1,890 1,587 (-303) 28 February 1,786 1,517 (-269)

Do some fact checking; there is. Some will say not enough, some will always say that. I am sure there will be plenty of time to tax us more in order to get past what will be a huge deficit in the budget; taxing people now is rather futile given that the majority in Britain are currently forced to quarantine and working from home is not viable.

I am. I pay UK tax. And I don't even live half the time in the UK. I am happy to pay my fair share... It's quite amazing some of the remarks on here. Not surprising I suppose but when you experience the levels of corruption in other parts of the world not least where I am you thank the lord you are fortunate to be born a Brit.

2oz of butter Mum says down in Cornwall back in the forties. Let's hope if they are used we don't run out of counter measure drugs such as those to stop diorhea. Side effects likely to be severe I reckon. If one is healthy might be best to simply ride it out rather than stuff your body with medications that are a bit on the strong side. People should be improving their immune systems in any proven natural way possible and there are plenty. Do you know that for a fact? Perhaps you have an account with Reuters and can scour the world news; even if you did I am sure there is a fair share of civil disobedience going on. I still reckon there is some mileage in the conspiracy that China started this to quell the civil disobedience that was already getting out of control in HK and in fact in some other cities. Probably a far fetched idea but I would not put it past that current regime I really wouldn't. The Chinese military, for example, now have undercover plain clothes agents in many 'friendly' countries. 3000 it is said here in the Philippines. What for? To ensure Duterte remains in power and friendly.

I referred to fast tracking by saying months not years. We are some way off having a vaccine available to all... My guess is we could see roll out possibly as early as late autumn... But that would be a world record.