samo II

Feel like ******* Cassandra with this one, but whatever - earlier in the season the late goals were a sign we are unprepared and unfocused; nothing has changed. Appalling stuff: senior pros are worthless and literally no point playing them anymore - just put in kids as we’re going to be in the relegation scrap anyways so may as well see how they do under pressure. Absolute garbage.

I’m up for us blooding as many youngsters as possible. So many of the senior pros have been so disappointing, they couldn’t be worse. Delighted to see some of them showing up and showing out - more please.

Sorry I misread. That’s not too bad then.

Imagine it’s this. Eight appearances in four months isn’t great unless you are injured. Better working with the coaches here.

While not dumping on Warnock’s achievements, I think the issue here is bigger than one personality coming in and somehow flipping a couple of years of issues on their head, and I don’t think we’re really set up for that just now anyway. NW is 72; yes, he can still have an impact at a club, but my worry is he wouldn’t be an appointment that would facilitate future stability or success - Rotherham fell back into their yo-yo ways after he left, Cardiff are a mess, and while Middlesbrough aren’t in trouble, they used to be a promotion contender every year, so aren’t exactly in a better spot. We’re all frustrated, but as someone said elsewhere, as we can’t sack players, people always look to an individual who can carry the can, but I don’t think that’s the core issue here. NP needs to do something, but he’s also only had one window - if I’m the money men at the club, I’m working all hours to figure out how we can augment the squad within the financial risks in Jan.

Yeah you’re likely right. Truth be; I am just sick of seeing the same line up and the same outcomes. I guess at least we lost in a different way today (against ten men) but it’s soul crushing. Same with not know what the plan is.

Said a while ago (after the third one) it was a worrying trend and someone tried to take me to account on it. While I don’t feel good for saying so, this kind of seals it - we have a problem.

Fair. Though honestly; rooting for young lads trying their best beats watching these guys right now. Ultimately, I don’t have an answer, but something needs to change.

We’ve pinned ourselves into a corner with a small squad, so I understand we don’t have much latitude when it comes to changing personnel too much. But personally; if the coaches are finding a lack of desire and drive in players, they need to start reflecting that as far as possible in team selection. I fully understand the argument of over-exposing young players to adult football, and they don’t want to ruin anyone by throwing them into the fire, but honestly; at this stage, I’d be promoting and trying out youth players instead of several of the senior pros. At the very, very least you would bring a bit of energy to the side, and if those kids are decent - great - but even if not, they might at least start giving the senior pros food for thought. I personally don’t think sacking the manager is going to do much; these players have effectively seen off three gaffers now, so it isn’t all on NP. But that being the case; deal with the root cause - if a few games in the stands focuses the minds of some while they watch kids battle for their spot, would that be so bad? I’m not sure it could be worse.

Us losing after having a 2-1 lead doesn’t surprise me. Us losing after having a 2-1 lead against ten men with 22 minutes left is farcical. I’m very worried about this team; that’s the kind of result that screams relegation candidate, unfortunately. I’ve said it multiple times now, but small squad or not, need to start actually doing something regards selection when players have bad games - trudging more or less the same side out week to week when they are clearly not working is getting very hard to stomach. Play more youth and start telling the deadwood to stay at home on a match day; I’d rather at least be cheering on academy products and assessing their worth while we lose games than this shower.

Obviously COYR but that team… doesn’t inspire confidence. Fingers-crossed they have had a fire lit under them and come out fighting. If not, have some questions about what players need to do to get dropped around here.

Get well soon, Nigel. Quite possible. Know of two people a lot younger than NP who’ve got stuck with that and it’s no joke. Hopefully it’s just one of these knockout colds that seem to be circulating.

Sure; I’d certainly not take it as you’d accepted things, more articulating my concerns. We (and NP too) are in a tough spot; it’s hard to ‘bottom out’ a squad from a performance perspective when you have limited resources to work with, and contractual/structural issues to address. But I do feel that looking at the line up each game going “oh a little shuffle here or there” then seeing them collapse so predictably once again when faced with adversity warrants something more drastic being done. In a few sports I’ve been in ‘locker rooms’ of different tilts; some of winning teams, some of losing ones, and while all of this was at an amateur (albeit-a few times National) level, the thing that defined a ‘good’ one from ‘bad’ wasn’t the results, but the attitude. Right now what chills me to the bone is we look like a team that clocks in, does the minimum, and clocks out. I thought we’d be often outgunned but at least not out fought under Pearson; however, we look simply out ‘efforted’, which is hard to forgive. For me, we have a game before the next international break - I’d be looking all the ‘old pros’ in the eye, offering them to have an extra week off, but telling them you’re playing a full under 23 team against Coventry, and anyone of them who performs well keeps their spot - see who takes the jolly and who has a bit more pride and fight than that, and work with what is left. Yes; It’s a mad idea, but if you don’t draw the line and dare people to cross it now, inertia creeps, and once that downward momentum kicks in, are we sure we can halt it?

List makes sense. Have said it before; I’d prefer kids are blooded over most of these - under no illusions they would be immediately better, and would be hard for them, but simply can’t imagine they’d not be easier to root for. Get you have to manage their introduction, but can giving Bell and others starts and minutes in proper, senior football to actually find out what we have compared to watching Martin huff and puff his way around the pitch doing next to nothing for 90 mins actually make us worse than what we are seeing now? I’m not sure.

This is the thing; my concern is - what suggests this won’t be the case? Both in reference to the above and you’re earlier, longer post; I fully accepted coming into this year we were rebuilding from a position of weakness, and have said repeatedly we’d struggle to get results and probably be the same for performances at times too - it wouldn’t be pretty. But the concerning thing currently is we aren’t doing anything that looks to progress us out of that state; from consistently selecting the same, often under-performing aging players, to a actual witnessable regression in the general ‘give-a-shit’ demeanour of even the younger players (Tanner for me is an example of this; from keen new face to resigned-to-a-loss body language) - I’m struggling to grasp where the path out starts. Last year, the new manager ‘bounce’ essentially gave us enough points to ensure relegation would be out of reach other than under the worst possible circumstances - right now we’re looking as bad as we have recently (between Forest and that shambles last night, yes; worst I’ve seen us for years), but have too much of the season left to get out of jail because the games stop. There appears to be no leadership within the team, and that is probably one of the reason NP is the third manager in charge of them in a worryingly short time, but at some stage something has to tick north - be that the players making a change, the gaffer, or someone else. Rebuilding; yes, we are, and it’s painful and can’t be expected to happen over night - I personally have always accepted that, and have no illusions around it. But the concept we can be as uncompetitive as we showed last night (and against Forest, and other times) regularly, shrug, and chalk it up to a lost season betrays the fact that as I’ve said elsewhere - we get no free pass just because we have long term problems. In football, problems very quickly multiply unless you seek solutions; you can’t just wait for them to go away. I feel NP may be doing the work behind the scenes to get us there (back room staff changes often indicate this), but as a fan, I don’t think expecting more ‘green shoots’ than absolutely none at all is unreasonable at this point, and I hope we get some evidence we at least trying to turn it round soon.

This aligns with much of my thinking. No one is saying we have a top squad, but it’s not the case we’re fighting bravely with half decent organisation and just coming up short on quality - the players look listless, directionless and disaffected, which they haven’t always. Our leaders should be galvanising us to get at least some semblance of organisation and fight from this squad; that’s all I’m hoping to see, but it’s increasingly looking to be entirely absent, which is confusing and very worrying. I’m not saying the problems aren’t deep rooted, but they do need addressing sooner rather than later, as even just a handful of performances more like that out of those players and we’ll have a hard hill to climb. And unfortunately this isn’t American football; we don’t get to go again in the championship if we just fall apart this year - problem compound, and believe me: if NP and the coaches can’t coax more out of this squad, any problems we think we have now will only be compounded a level below.

Yeah, this. There is a vast difference between screaming “Pearson out” and making the point we look worse now than we did at the start of the season, and that isn’t sustainable if we want to stay in this division. We don’t get a pass on relegation by pointing out our problems are deep rooted; those with the ability to influence things still need to show they are actually doing that.

I’d counter being a young player watching from the sidelines on this team, seeing the absolute garbage the ‘senior pros’ are putting out and still having them starting over you would be discouraging. We don’t seem to have any leaders on this team; I’d rather be rooting for young players trying the damnedest every week and failing than whatever crap that was tonight. I literally never want to see Martin pull on our shirt again.

I guess I’m of the mind that if we don’t blow it up, where are we going? The alternative is… this? That tonight was relegated side-quality football, but in early November; that’s an awful sign. Plus; we literally look worse now than we did a couple of months ago - and that’s not just down to available players, as they are broadly the same. We don’t have the luxury of time or money that NP’s predecessors maybe had, and if we sleepwalk into relegation because we wouldn’t take the risk of blooding kids/pulling vets and trying something different, the situation won’t improve. And I truthfully don’t care about the dressing room - good ones grown and thrive at these moments, so if there isn’t the spirit there now to fight back, it’s already broken so to hell with it; shake them up. edit: and yes, I’d play under 23 players instead of at least Martin - he’s done; offers next to nothing.

Agree. I can take losing when I see the direction we’re trying to take. But we just look like we’re going game-to-game with no direction or plan. We were as bad as any football team I’ve seen play this year and possibly last tonight; that is very worrying.

I’m not sure where I said “everyone is part of the problem” but I did say the likes of Kalas are - he might not want to be a leader here, but that alone tells you what type of person he is. I’m sure he’s nice enough, but he’s not what we need. Add the likes of Wells and Martin to that - this feels like the squad of aging, listless, directionless ‘pros’ that Pulis assembled; no guts, no dynamism. Sometimes you need to send a message - people will remember the end stage of GJ’s time, but his willingness to change the culture at the start by dropping players and pushing for a new direction, regardless of results is what built the bedrock of his success. I’m not clear what NP is doing playing these aging, listless pros who offer us nothing, and yet still lose us games terribly; it’s clearly not changing anything, so for me the time for just sitting on our hands is done - start doing the hard things to get where we need to long term, as we’re getting nothing from the alternative.

One game in how many? We look absolutely rudderless more games than not; he’s meant to be a leader and a captain - has he done anything to justify that? I don’t get how the hugest paid, most senior players are getting defended here when they are offering us nothing in terms of performance or leadership - has Kalas driven us on to greater things since he arrived? No. He part of the problem here.

This is as bad a performance as we’ve put out in several years, no question. Birmingham are poor-to-average and all it takes is them trying a little and they cut is apart. If I’m watching as decision maker at this club, I’d maybe have a sit down and ask “what is the plan?” to Nigel this week. Rather see all kids at this point; we simply cannot be worse doing that now than playing this pathetic excuse for football.

He doesn’t want to be here. Imagine he expected to be sold in the summer and is just biding his time now; he’s one of the worst in terms of offering none of the leadership qualities needed by this side. It’s why he never made it in the Prem: can play but has no authority or intangible.

Dead game. Might have snapped the home losing streak at the weekend but we’re just a really bad football team. No pace, no urgency, no one with the desire to stamp their authority on the game; it’s very dispiriting. It’s worrying; not much progress or green shoots just now, unfortunately. What’s the plan? Serious question.