The Swan and Cemetery

In a world of maybe, just maybe… availability of Dickie and Vyner (and Max to be fair) is what worries me most.

Very happy to confirm I didn’t like that second half performance. Also happy to confirm loads of terrible performances under pretty much every manager I can remember, plus some good ones! Doesn’t mean it wasn’t a great result, but folk getting criticised for criticising that performance is odd, in my view.

Okay. Personally not convinced that performance must equal result (in any direction).

If giving up territory and possession was the best way to defend a lead… no one is suggesting going gung ho, but think we could have protected the lead in a way that left us less exposed.

That’s a very fair point, albeit not convinced the tone of voice from the club is “we want King to stay”.

Couldn’t agree more. Fine to argue about whether or not Pearson/Rennie/James/King were getting the job done, but having some folk around with PL experience seems likely to be helpful! And King isn’t a fancy dan, his unique record of L1/Championship/PL winning with the same club says to me that giving up that unique experience is foolhardy, particularly given he’s a City fan as well. Also agree he’s going, but think it’s a poor decision.

Err, we’ve just seen the first mistake by a Championship keeper this season (maybe this decade?), posters have every right to be livid. Max out, entirely faultless (but cheap) keeper in.

Think Max is a very decent Championship keeper. Therefore he makes mistakes and produces blinding saves. My concern remains competition and cover for him. At least having experienced cover, even if a journeyman not particularly challenging Max, would be helpful. Feels high risk having Bajic as cover, however good he is/isnt, he definitely isn’t experienced in the Championship. Don’t think a late career journeyman needs to be particularly expensive either.

The club would be much better having a more authentic/less spin approach to communications. Desperate attempts to imply everything is obvious and binary, when clearly it’s not, look silly. “NP was untenable, LM does need time and windows” etc might result in short term egg on faces given comms to date, but keeping the spin going will be more damaging in the medium term. For those of us who thought NP was doing a good job and didn’t deserve to go, we can disagree with that decision, but also accept it might turn out to be the right one and we’ll get behind LM anyway as he’s managing/coaching City. But pretending that we’re already seeing revolution is daft and unnecessary, when we’re not (and no reason to expect it from LM yet, it’s the rampant confirmation bias from the club comms that is annoying people, or at least me).

Thanks @Puckle_red, fair points. For better/worse I’m in the “JP went missing” and was way too hot/cold camp, hence hoping Twine isn’t like JP. Accept that maybe me missing what JP brought, just hope we don’t get into “Twine is making passes his teammates aren’t good enough to understand” etc territory. Not saying you’re saying this, but sometimes players who have greater technical ability get an easy ride in my view - it’s a team sport, if your teammates aren’t up to your level, adjust. Overall, whilst I wouldn’t quite give Twine the review @Harry did, thought there was plenty shown to be very optimistic (and still be a bit disappointed it’s not perm/definitively with an option to buy).

Think if I listed things I was hoping for from Twine, I’d get to “quite good at macramé” before a young Jamie Paterson.

Or it means “random” and he’s not very accurate, or is very accurate but on a long statistical run of ‘tails’ landing in the same place… or more likely… what you said.

Yep, tempted to start a poll: Football involves playing against an opponent and they’re less than keen that you win. True or False?

Things haven’t gone perfectly for LM, but surely we need to give him a chance.

Not inclined to be optimistic with JL/BT at the helm, as signs of planning strategically tend to be few and far between, but… - LM’s worked with him before, during each of their’s most successful spell (admittedly League One) - could be the unlock for Tommy. Twine’s a very different player to Scott, but I’m still of the view that all Tommy needs is decent chances, and Twine could be the person to deliver them - not ideal having no option to buy, but maybe the house view is Murphy just needs fitness and then he’ll be ready to go, so Twine bridges the gap - there maybe lots of teams between us and 6th, but 4 points means a decent run will get us there, so don’t think going for it (at least a bit) is a terrible idea (not excusing the decision making that’s led us here) None of the above unpicks poor decision making over many years, or offers any guarantees, but for me means it’s not a ludicrous/terrible deal (or one to cartwheel about, 7/10-ish).

The argument will be that if we’re pragmatic game to game, we won’t instil the style etc consistently that will eventually make us successful. Think LM’s MK stint may turn out to be instructive, with players who were better (Twine + some decent loans) they succeeded, when Twine left and loans returned, they were hopeless the following season. As you point out, this is problematic: Building the quality required at Championship level to have ‘one way’ is vastly different (/more expensive) than in League 1. If we knew promotion was guaranteed next season, we’d probably all take 18th this season… but all will have happened is finishing 18th, which is a difficult sell “honest guv, we’re teetering on the brink of Prem glory” - how do you give supporters confidence that we are on the right track, when in the moment it doesn’t feel like that? All indicates that for LM to succeed we need very different (and more expensive) players, Not clear that the Lansdowns/Tinnion have clocked that success requires a number of things to come together in a planned way, vs constant flip-flopping/whack-a-mole and crossing of fingers. What happens before the end of January may contradict this view (but will also contradict everything they’ve previously said). Was ECB definitively Gould’s dream job vs he realised success was unlikely at City?

Merseyside Police seeking an emergency meeting with Everton apparently. If Everton can accelerate Bramley Moore, between there, Goodison and Anfield most should get a ticket, with the remainder kettled on the runway at John Lennon Airport.

Thought maybe his starting position for their goal was a little bit too far back given where the ball was when passed - could have been a yard further forward without a long range shot being plausible? But probably nit picking. My only problem with Max isn’t with Max - would he develop more quickly with more competition for his place and would that also protect us against Max getting injured? Don’t think it would have to break the bank either. Both NP and LM seem fine with Bajic and maybe he’ll be fine, but a tad more experience would be nice.

Starred is a bit optimistic? Played 1,720 minutes and didn’t play in their last 13 games, and in his last game they were 11th. Think in some cases it’s both the management and the player.

We’ve all got our favourite eras (usually teenage years going with mates?), but for me it’s difficult for other eras to beat the first division team, given how rare those heady heights have been. Mixing it with the very best for 4 seasons, with Tom Ritchie crucial throughout. One small example of those heady days (realising plenty on here will remember it well), in 78/79 the Liverpool team of Dalglish, Hansen, Clemence, Souness et al won the league, conceding 16 goals all season and losing 4 times. One of those losses was to City (Joe Royle scored the winner). Unless we’re going back to the Harry Thickett era of the 1900’s, no City team has come close to operating at the level we did for those 4 seasons - Tom and the rest of that squad: legends one and all. As mentioned by others, Tom then cemented his legend status further with his fine work during the Terry Cooper era (inc his double act with Martyn Hirst).

Agree, Rush was perhaps the best striker I’ve seen, but his life was made an awful lot easier playing alongside Dalglish.

The irony.

Think we have to find a system (unless the St Patrick’s lad turns out to be Scott 2.0 instantly) to give both Dickie and Vyner confidence to bring the ball further themselves. They’ve both shown they’re capable (maybe not Hansen in his pomp, but decent), but need to have confidence they’ll be covered effectively.

Agree, assuming all other things equal (opponents, injuries etc), this season’s NP 18 points from 14 games and LM 15 points from 11 games are both rock solid mid table, no more, no less. Think broadly three paths are most likely: - spend a bit to allow us to break down defensively minded/low press teams (chance of top eight). - maintain current squad and cohesion and middle 8 finish likely. - lose cohesion/effort and bottom 8 more plausible. One key criticism I’d have of both the NP and LM periods this season, is there seems to be a lack of cohesion between players who might play a forward pass and those who might receive it, as to whether the ball is going to be played short or long. Defenders consistently beating us to short balls and longer balls often into no man’s land. Whilst Tanner (appears to be top of the scape goat league table currently) is part of this problem, I struggle to see anyone who isn’t.

Think both Vyner and Dickie need to carry the ball forward more. To do that they need confidence in cover behind them, which despite Millwall playing only one up front, maybe tricky with James/Williams not being renowned for pace. TGH coming on might help (not that I think James/Williams are having especially poor games).