S_C

Apologies, perhaps I’m being dense. I’m on and off OTIB, but you seem to be of the opinion that Manning isn’t the guy/up to the job etc. For what it’s worth, from what we’ve seen, I don’t disagree with that. I’m a bit more forgiving of his circumstances, I’d suggest, but I’m certainly in the camp that his time here has been underwhelming and he/we need to improve. But when we beat an auto-promotion team, and whilst they had their chances I don’t think the result was unfair, to see the wolves at the door fluttering begrudging praise whilst waiting for the next loss is a bit tiresome. Where did I say, sorry, that people should form their opinions on one game?

Where did I say you should revise your opinion based on one game? Those who have criticised Manning will say ‘good result, but..’ Those who back Manning will say ‘this is proof that..’ It’s neither of those things. It’s a good result. A good performance. Leicester could have won had they taken their chances, but we won, it was a good win, and it’s a strong win, which on another day could have been a loss. The issue is that whatever happened today is of little value, as pre-determined beliefs define how you comment on the outcome. It’s fine to say over x games we haven’t shown enough, for what it’s worth I agree with that, but we went toe-to-toe today with an auto promotion contender. It’s a shame that people can’t purely complement that, rather than offer half-hearted praise and risk potentially contradicting their established opinion.

Yep, agreed.

It’s all nonsense. As it always is. Win a game and the pro-x spout their pro-x stuff, whilst the opposed half-heartedly offer flimsy praise whilst reaffirming their doubts. Vice versa applies, clearly. Let’s be clear, it’s a great result, but both teams had chances and Vardy could have had a hat trick. The reality is people make their minds up and then manoeuvre conversation to fit. Which is a shame, as there’s much more credibility to be had in saying my opinion is x, I accept that has been/could be shown to be wrong and I am changing my opinion, than my opinion is x, it’s played out differently but here are my qualifiers why. Today doesn’t prove that Manning is the man, but it does prove that those who have decided he isn’t are highly unlikely to genuinely revise their view.

Exactly this. As harsh as it sounds, Manning needs to succeed or be allowed to fail to facilitate significant change. Great, let’s get a new fall guy in. Maybe he’ll win a few games and the mood can shift from ‘significant change is needed’ to ‘still think there’s room to improve operations’. Anyone who thinks that wouldn’t happen, that they’ll be celebrating wins but still have the same adamancy that the hierarchy is busted, is utterly naive. Everyone wants the club to be successful. If Manning is replaced and we’re suddenly PL bound terrific, happy to admit I was wrong and the current setup was capable of achieving the words they freely throw around. But with BT/JL at the helm we’ll only appoint Manning clones, and just continually paper the cracks with fans declaring they either like or dislike the current coach as a first point of reference. SL genuinely baffles me. He clearly wants to move on but trusts his investment with people who are detriment to the product. Do we think, in any reality, that a buyer is found and they retain the services of BT with his current influence. Some of the criticism is a bit much, I don’t doubt he has what he considers the best interests of the club at heart and, broadly, respect his long-service, but the 30 year stuff as an argument for competency summed up the situation. I can’t rationalise out of it. It’s mind boggling. Shit hit the fan so we SOS’d a genuine outsider in Pearson who didn’t fit the mould. We kept him long enough to remedy the situation then reset to a point with echoes of where it started going wrong. Hi Nigel, we’ve made some bad decisions here and are up shit creek, can you come in and sort this out? Hi Nigel, thanks for sorting that out for us, you’re not needed anymore, we’re going to go the young coach route again and chuck money at it once more. We’ll keep you on speed dial.. Make it make sense.

Yep, 1st half was woeful, that sort of something is wrong at the club woeful. Result was important thing today and we got it. We didn’t deserve it, necessarily, Swansea looked very limited to me but were better team on the day, but as you say the product being delivered isn’t the product that was pitched. The one thing I’d take is that it’s hard to say Manning is inflexible after today. There’s no way that’s how he wants his teams to play, we seem to now be set on a restrictive 4-4-2 which must differ from his possession based mindset. Whether it’s too little too late for some, the idea that he’s bluntly forcing his style on his players must be done after today’s structured, direct, showing.

Football fans en masse certainly aren’t recognised for being levelheaded (let’s be fair that’s probably for good reason) and I imagine when you’re rising through the ranks to becoming a head-coach/manager it’s probably drummed into you not to take them too seriously, but there’s a fine line between being tough-skinned and aloof. Manning seems to walk that line. He needs to go careful. There’s already a growing theme of he does x and his players do x, rather than we did x, and whilst it’s true fans are fickle it’s unwise to underestimate the value of effective communication. From the outside looking in he’s very much on the hot seat. It’s interesting, perhaps even telling, that rather than acknowledge and address the mood he dismisses it.

I don’t think/didn’t say that they’d faced comparative challenges. And yes, absolutely agree. I certainly don’t want to be accused of dragging you, or anyone, into a Pearson distraction.. But the task before Pearson was much harder, with significantly greater challenges. Having mentioned him twice (I think) in a lengthy post, one of which was, in my opinion at least, to make the valid point that his exit (which is a different matter to Manning’s appointment) was handled terribly and has contributed to the mood, I’m surprised so many seem so keen to distract from the job Manning is doing.. I havent had a chance to read through the whole thread today but have seen some good posts. The bottom line for me is that BT/JL take ownership of their decision. If Manning goes, they go. That’s not reality, of course, but Manning is merely a part, a currently failing part, of the direction of travel of the club/BT/JL. If they sack him now and start interviewing again (if they even bother, it’s only been four months..) are they suddenly asking different questions? Is the vision different? Does the profile of manager shift? Sacking him just feels a bit futile, for me. Pearson, or anyone of his ilk, isn’t getting the job under the current regime. So we’ll just keep recycling the mouthpiece until we find one which wins enough games to cover up the deficiencies. Don’t let them hide from this. Make them accountable. Put the decision on their shoulders. What will be, will be.

Perhaps I misinterpreted. I don't disagree that the club was in a better position on the whole when Pearson was here. I think we're in the boat now to be honest. The change id like is higher than Manning. I suspect id actually be quite bitter if he were to be sacked, results were to improve, the season ticket drive commenced, we went marquee in the summer and all was forgotten come August. Sacking Manning is papering over the cracks and, whilst I appreciate saying hierarchy arent up to it doesnt mean Manning is, if the question is do I want to finish 13th next season after BT/JL hide behind Manning's failure or consider that relegation may move us toward correcting the foundations, for better or worse, I think we're in stick territory. My personal opinion aside (I also believe that, unless he's lost the dressing room, we won't be relegated), a damaging result against Swansea in the face of an already sour mood feels a loss too many, and I think it's likely they go into self-preservation mode.

I absolutely believe that the manner in which he arrived is contributing to the current mood. That isn’t to say the mood would be dramatically different but I absolutely believe that if JL/BT had been more honest, if they’d thanked Pearson for his work in righting the ship and stated Manning is a promising young coach who will need time and understanding to adapt to the Championship, I think plenty would be more forgiving. Everyone knew the top 6 squad stuff was nonsense, I’m not implying fans swallowed it and are now confused why we aren’t 5th, but they massively fumbled both Pearson's exit (in creating a false narrative about someone who had been hugely media savvy in the run up to his departure) and Manning’s appointment. It left a sour taste in a fanbase already sceptical of the hierarchy, whilst lumping Manning in their corner as their man. It created undue pressure. Had they not, I think for some the tone shifts to ‘we’ve had some good performances, look at Watford, look at Southampton, a nice win over PL West Ham, there are signs of potential, but he needs to improve if he’s going to take us forward' rather than ‘out of his depth, get rid.’ I do get the criticism regarding trying to impose his style of play on a set of players that aren’t suited to it, but managers come in with their own ideas and methods. He isn’t going to play the same style/system as his predecessor, and I think 10/15 games is probably around the mark you’d realise what you want to do might not work. It’s all well and good criticising that he isn’t being flexible but you don't get the green light to implement your methods, struggle for 4 games, and then revert to what the bloke who just got fired was doing. Clearly it will take time, either for it to work or realise it isn’t. Even if its acknowledged that the players don't quite fit, that must be known prior to appointment, otherwise BT/JL sat in an interview with LM and said 'What we're looking for is exactly how we're playing now..' His first 10 games were W4 D3 L3. I’d say that’s pretty fine and argue, actually, that he’s therefore had 15 games to consider what he’s trying to do might be too much too soon. For what it’s worth, we’ve had 14 games between 1st Jan and 2nd Mar, several against PL teams, including an ET and demoralising penalties loss. That’s a lot of games, many against superior opposition. Though I don’t condone it and acknowledge its dangers, there’s been an air throughout that we’ll finish mid table. It's his responsibility to manage that of course, but it isnt hard to see how complacency and fatigue, both physically and mentally, can set in. As has been said elsewhere, poor and lose to Swansea and the club are staring down both barrels. I can’t help but feel, though, that whilst both Pearson and Manning had their challenges, Pearson’s were used to excuse him whereas Manning’s are brushed aside.

Constantly feel the need to make this clear, because it is important to stress this isn’t coming from a pro-Manning (or anti-Pearson) angle. I liked Pearson. I was angry he was let go. I did blow hot and cold with him, but I certainly felt we were heading in the right direction. I’m unconvinced by Manning. Though I think, broadly, post Ipswich was fine, I’m not huge on his talk. I’d like to hear more praise and protection for players. This, and even decisiveness/game management, i’m willing (currently) to accept is inexperience. We’ve had some good performances but, admittedly, more deflating ones. He’s no more than 3/10 but, as there were for Pearson, there are circumstances I sympathise with beyond his control. If we’re poor and lose to Swansea, I agree there’s a very strong argument he should go. That said, and returning to quote.. When Pearson went, after losing to Cardiff, we were 15th and had lost 5 in 7. To say ‘such a good position’ even if you are right to imply we were in a better position, is re-writing history.

So, you expected us to play like we did and were one of the majority who thought we’d make a good game of it (as in, you genuinely believed we would, not ‘would be typical bloody City if we got a result there tonight..’) based on previous performance? Surely we met your expectations in a positive sense, then? Unless, as one of the worst form teams in the league, you’re saying a point was the minimum requirement against a top team who, I believe, have lost once at home all season, and that was in August. Honestly don’t understand your last sentence. Continue to say, will say again, I’m not saying Manning is the answer, I’m not dying on a hill defending him, if he was sacked today I’d be angry at the way the club is being run not send him messages of support.

Sure, not saying there aren't things he could have done that MAY have altered the course of things. I haven't seen the Pring injured comments so unsure how serious it is/was, but not convinced id have fancied throwing Roberts on for him with Burns in full flow. Mehmeti looked tired, yeah, he was also our best player and one of those you'd most like in one-on-ones on the counter. Surely no-one believes that if Roberts had gone on for Mehmeti and we'd have still lost, Manning wouldnt have been accused of being too negative. Maybe if we'd done that we would have taken a point, but maybe if we been more decisive in our defending we'd have comfortably won the game. Battering people with maybe, when it's clearly a maybe, and especially when it's to a backdrop of a good team performance, is a never ending cycle. The issue isnt that Manning didnt do x or y, at least it shouldn't be tonight, it's that we arent discussing Wells hitting the bar, or not reacting quickly enough to either Sykes cross or following the pull back after Mehmeti's shot. We're not discussing McCrorie being reckless in possession, or how Dickie could have taken charge of the equaliser as it came inside Pring. Why arent we talking about Vyner giving a foul away on the edge of the box, or O'Leary's distribution. Sykes goes to sleep for the third. Yet somehow Manning, with a limited bench and having, let's give him his dues, set the team up very well, to such an extent we were the better side and leading 2-1 after 79 minutes, could have made a change which might have altered things. The issue is that we lost due to individual errors during a good performance, in a game we were widely expected to be run through, and the bloke who essentially deserves the {most} credit is the one in the firing line. I'm not typing this telling you Manning is fantastic or Manning is the right guy, I was angry Pearson was disposed of and things clearly arent going great, but when you turn in a performance like tonight and the heat is focused on the manager, it tells you that people are guilty of not fairly assessing what is in-front of them. It tells you that people have made up their mind and are drawing conclusions to fit their pre-determined beliefs.

Crazy how a mood sets in, just becomes a tide which people get swept up in. Thought everything he said was spot on. I’d have liked him to offer more praise for the performance but he certainly didn’t hang anyone out to dry. He’s right, emotion/concentration/decisiveness, however you want to phrase it, cost us. All three goals were hugely avoidable. Blame him when he’s at fault, for sure. He isn’t at fault for tonight.

They scored immediately after making their changes, then had a short spell with crowd behind them. We regained control, scored a fantastic goal, then gave away a ridiculous free kick within a minute. People will rewrite the second half based on 10 minutes after they equalised, which includes chances when we were chasing the game. We were the better team for large periods. Individual mistakes cost us.

He was brought in to fit the model BT/JL wanted, and because a more seasoned head was clearly causing too much trouble. I have little to no doubt the club would prefer to finish this season 16th under Manning than 8th under Pearson. Again, I’m not championing Manning. Again, he does not get a free pass. He has been more successful than not during his career and I don’t see that changing him now, for someone with the same profile, really tackles the issue.

Agree, and I think that’s absolutely fair. Personally, I think we’re in the boat now. If we were to be relegated then the hope is it ushers significant change at higher levels. I’m of the opinion that we’ll be ok, and I think he should be given a summer and opening months. I don’t see that BT/JL replacing him, results improving enough to distance fears of relegation, is particularly beneficial long-term.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but in three and a bit seasons he’s finished 3rd, 3rd and was 2nd, two of which were in L1? As you’ve said, he left MK Dons after a poor few months. That’s a pretty solid record for a mid-table championship club looking for a young coach. Let’s be clear on this, I’m not flying the Manning banner. I’ve stated elsewhere he’s underperforming and criticism is fine. My point is that he’s been put in an incredibly difficult position, presented as {immediately} leading us to the PL with a squad capable of doing so, replacing an old-school, no nonsense manager who was popular in large part and who had cleverly positioned himself against a hierarchy which many despise. If BT/JL now wash their hands of him, hide their culpability behind his performance, it will just be yet more weak management.

He’s a young coach who has been successful at a lower level. For what JL/BT want, which as you say is what we’re stuck with for the foreseeable, I actually think LM is a good appointment. BT/JL are, in my opinion, almost entirely culpable for the situation. Setting a top 6 narrative as opposed to more modest expectations has largely hung him out to dry. He doesn’t get a free pass, criticising his performance is fine, but there’s a huge gulf between that occurring against stated expectations vs reality. Fans are pissed off that they’ve been, pretty transparently, fed a line on NP’s exit, and it’s now the backdrop to the heat LM is getting. The smart play here would be for BT/JL to take the pressure off him. Come out and admit they placed unrealistic expectations on him (which I believe started to happen in some sort of Christmas e-mail that was issued, where JL referenced things taking time), stress the need for patience, and take real ownership of the situation they have created. Certainly wont be holding my breath, but an honest interview acknowledging they put undue pressure on LM would help no end.

Broadly speaking, I feel similar. Skimming through the Manning out posts/tweets, couldn’t help but think how misguided the anger was. He clearly hasn’t made a terrific start, and it’s fine to critique his teams performance and air frustrations with his mannerisms but how, in the space of four months, has it gone from BT/JL don’t know what they’re doing, to LM doesn’t know what he’s doing. Now, both may be true, though I’d suggest there is more evidence that LM can coach a successful football team than BT/JL lead a successful football club, but to call for his head is to gloss over the issue in the extreme. Let’s say he’s sacked this week, let’s say the new appointment hits the ground running. Is everything ok again? It’s a bizarre situation, but I almost don’t want a scenario where our results improve as a result of sacking LM. Everyone wants their club to be successful, of course, but he’s a product of a weak, inward, mentality, and was handed an absolute hospital pass with the ludicrous expectations set on his arrival. Clearly, that was constructed bollocks by a hierarchy which didn’t have the balls to tell the truth, and the time for pining over Pearson is gone, but it should not be forgotten, and the anger has to be primarily aimed higher than LM. For what it’s worth, though my conviction on this is waning, I think we’ll be fine this season (this is caveated somewhat by if he still has the dressing room). I also think, presuming we are, we’ll throw money at in the summer and see improvement next season. Again, as per sacking LM, spending to cover mistakes is bittersweet, and we’ve been down that road before. Ultimately, Manning needs time. And, ultimately, I think it’s in everyone’s interests to give it to him.

Time to stop talking about Pearson now, for me. Those who didn’t like him will defend Manning, those who did will use Pearson as a reference point at every opportunity. It’s divisive and unhelpful, it is without question the fault of JL/BT who mismanaged his exit, setting ridiculous expectations for a coach with no experience at this level, that should not be forgotten, but unfortunately fans have to be the adults and move on from a manager who was not getting a new contract regardless. Last night was really poor. As others have said, alarm comes from the game simply playing out as it was clear early it would, with a result that never looked in doubt, with little to nothing done to remedy the tide. That is a worry. But Manning is young, he isn’t going anywhere, faith must be placed that he, and we, are a different prospect next season. The good news is, I suspect we will be. Broadly speaking January was a good window. Ironically Twine, which is the most noteworthy recruit, is the most questionable, seeming to serve more to assist JL/BT in their post Pearson fantasies/falsehoods than actually be part of direction of travel. Tinnion alluded to it last night, think a couple of fees/names are likely in the summer. They have to be. To not provide Manning with every opportunity to meet their expectations is self-harm. Manning will have a strong squad and a pre-season, by August everyone on here will be talking play-offs. For a club that has recently appointed Lee Johnson and Dean Holden, Liam Manning, though inexperienced, is plenty experienced. His success in lower leagues is justification enough for a mid-table championship club. Is it justification for a top 6 championship club, perhaps not, but then that isn’t what we are, at least certainly not with a half season manager taking his first job at this level. Manning needs patience and understanding, unfortunately that means putting Pearson in the past.

Above everything else, whether you think it was right for Pearson to go or not, the sheer masterclass in weak, wet, PR is truly cause for concern and should inspire little to no confidence in the decision makers. Taking what now feels like a few steps back following the Halloween horror show of this mornings attempts to placate the fanbase, whilst in my opinion it was the wrong decision to make the change, it’s the hopeless mismanagement in the aftermath that is the overriding concern. It had been clear for some time that Pearson was doing the dirty work, laying the foundations for his inevitably more user-friendly successor. He wasn’t going to get a new deal, bar some miraculous top 6 campaign which, however much the club try to convince otherwise, was never the expectation. With that being the case, now seems as good a time as any to rip off the band-aid. After being pretty frustrated and disillusioned with the situation on Sunday, I’d sort of made peace in that it was the wrong decision at the right time. He isn’t getting a new deal, they’ve struck opportunistically when, they at least, believe pedalling a results line will wash. They’ll back the new guy in January. They’ll have to. For all the anger and disappointment, it wasn’t going to be a thing beyond this season, I don’t agree with it, but let’s move on. There was a window of opportunity this morning. The chance was there to come out, tell the truth, and at very least pay respect to both Pearson in words and fans in sincerity, even if neither of those were in agreement with the course. We’d like to thank Nigel for all the hard work he has put in, both on and off the pitch, having joined the club during an incredibly testing time financially and tasked with overhauling the playing squad. After discussion with Nigel, in which it was clear our views did not align, we have taken the difficult decision that Nigel’s contract will not be renewed at the end of the season and have decided it is in the best interests of the club and all concerned if we now part ways. That’s not hard. So why is it? The fact that it is, the fact that they’ve crammed the Ladybird book of Super Soccer buzzwords - ‘Passion’, ‘Aggression’, ‘Front-foot’, ‘Youth’ et al into the nonsense of this morning, in the hugely wayward and arrogant belief that fans would swallow it actually, for me, shows genuine disrespect and disdain. I guess I’ve always been a Lansdown makes bad decisions but provides stability and infrastructure which we should be grateful for, rather than Lansdown provides stability and infrastructure which we should be grateful for but makes bad decisions, kind of voter, but to have the gall to not only dispense of the man who answered your self-inflicted SOS, but to then roll out the nonsense of this morning, quite simply fans deserve better from the club.

Know it’s different when theory becomes reality but really not seeing the fuss. Yeah, of course, Scott going is a shame from a footballing perspective. But it’s been said (somewhere, by someone who appears to know what they’re talking about…) that he wouldn’t sign a new deal and the club WANTED to sell him in this window. Perfectly understandable. Now, there’s clearly a big difference between what a club balancing the books and a manager appreciating the books but trying to win matches wants. Perhaps Pearson has been kept out of the loop and is grumpy about it, I don’t think that’s clear from his par for the course post-match persona but it’s possible and would be a shame if its caused friction, but he can’t be shocked that the club have accepted an offer. The real concern would be if he was. The bottom line is Pearson came in to clean up the mess of those before him and, realistically, it was always likely to be the manager after him which had us looking up rather than down. Don’t get carried away by pre-season play-off sound-bytes. Look at Southampton. Look at Leicester and Leeds. Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Millwall, Norwich. We were played off the park at times by Preston a few days ago. Could we? Sure. Why not. There’s pieces here and a manager who’s done it before. Bluster aside though, midtable would have been a success having kept Scott. Without him, even if we went out and signed a starting GK, ACM and ST, are we suddenly finishing higher than those clubs listed above? For me, no. The absolute last thing the club should do, and I’m sure they won’t, is throw money at the first XI in some vain attempt to punch so clearly above our weight, chase and overreach (again…), and undo any of the sound work Pearson and the club themselves have done to right the ship.

I also don’t post much on here, and apologies for adding to the Alex Scott thread with a post not directly commenting on Alex Scott, but for me this is hugely unfair regarding Knight. Yesterday was an interesting day in that it popped the enthusiasm balloon for those who bought into play-off, sell out etc sound-bytes/hype, but the reality is we’re progressing, or at very least setting foundations, as a club which simply won’t be able to toe-to-toe with plenty in the league. That isn’t to say we shouldn’t be able to with Preston, who can rightly feel aggrieved not to have taken all three points following our poor performance yesterday, but to in anyway pin that on Knight’s debut, or any other individual performance, isn’t fair. Knight showed tenacity and touches of flair which will, in my opinion at least, endear him to fans in no time. I was much more concerned with how ragged, disorganised and, perhaps most damning, passive in response we were with both James and Williams at the heart of midfield, two players you’d absolutely want to sort things out when under the cosh, as we were for pretty much the entire second half yesterday. Don’t get me wrong, Knight was no more than 6/10, but to attach any negatives to him based on yesterdays bland and underwhelming turn-out is, in my opinion, misguided.

Hi all, A recent clear-out at my parent’s house has unearthed some old match reports (haven’t looked at all but have seen 60’s and 70’s). There’s also a few programmes - Fulham vs City 19/10/74 and, somewhat randomly, Chelsea vs Stoke League Cup Final 04/03/72. Programme’s are in good condition. Newspaper reports look like they’ve been in a loft for decades, which they have… but are in otherwise fine condition. There is also my dad’s season ticket from 70/71. If anyone wants these bits, let me know. EDIT - To be clear, sorry, there are more newspaper bits than pictured.