MarcusX

Pretty fair assessment, I've enjoyed Southgates time in so much that he brought back some pride to the national team and unity in the camp. I wouldn't be upset to see someone new come in now and try a different approach. As you say, perhaps someone with experience of tournament football and getting results. I think we've got a very talented side, but it might sound weird to say I think we've peaked a little. 2021/22 seemed to be a good blend of experience and fresh talent and players in form. We've got problems in depth in multiple areas now and the second/third choice in several positions is significantly weaker - both full backs, CB, CM and the lone striker role. International management must be a tough gig though. Gareth has 4 games (3 now) to prepare, with these 2 being at a time in the season when several players naturally drop out - does he experiment, or try and work on team cohesion with his current best 11? I think we saw neither on Saturday as his best 11 wasn't avaible, but he didn't really seem to try anything different.

Well firstly, I'll say no disrespect towards the origins of the flag was intended, although I think you're bwrong to suggest anyone was laughing at the source of the flag. But quite obviously as Rich says: It was Cowshed posting one minute that "defacing flags is illegal" then posting his delight at a customised England flag 2 posts later that was amusing. The complete hypocrisy of "you cant touch our flags unless it's something I approve of on the flag" Read what again? Cowshed didn't say any of that? 3 posts: 1. "Defacing flags is illegal" 2. "Yes defacing a flag can be a hate crime." 3. Post saying "lovely" with a picture of a flag that has writing on it, which some may describe as defaced. No post about culture or tradition there at the point I responded. For what it's worth, I love seeing all the England flags especially at games and tournaments and I'll have mine in Germany in the summer. I just think people are taking a slight change to one aspect of our flag applied on a shirt way too far - even though I agree it looks a bit shit, would be better without a cross at all on the collar IMO. As for culture warrior, you're looking at the wrong people there... Other countries have, including your example of Scotland. They've had a purple flag, a yellow cross and other manipulations of their flag on their shirts.

No it isn’t. Nike wanted more colours on the kit and it was vetoed - clearly because some idiots can’t see a “rainbow effect” without linking it to something it isn’t. What you’ve done is said rainbow must mean pride and that’s why they’ve done it. Your statement is an opinion. Such a weird comparison

Yes, obviously as I’ve explain above in the comment you replied to. The word “pride” isn’t mentioned once in that article, what I assume you’ve done is read the word rainbow and made a connection. For the benefit of those who can’t view behind the paywall this is the quote: “It seems astonishing that the FA would not examine the shirt closely enough but, amid claim and counterclaim from sources close to those in charge, there were allegations the US firm wanted to make the home kit even more multi-coloured and closer to displaying a “rainbow” effect.” It goes on to say: “Another source with knowledge of the design process for the kit confirmed an addition of another colour had been discussed but disputed that would have constituted a “rainbow” effect, stressing part of the design brief had been incorporating hues harking back to England’s 1966 World Cup triumph.”

Have you read the whole article?

Well this a topical time to bring this back up

Where have you seen this? The only thing I can find is a paywalled telegraph article, that when you read it was about making the home kit more multi-coloured (presumably like the away kit down the sides) not “using pride colours” and doesn’t mention the cross.

And yet, guess what… they have, and no one has said a word. The badge background was blue on last years Red shirt. This year on the away shirt they’ve changed the colours to purple and no one has said a thing. Anyway, saw loads of the new shirts around yesterday and both the England store and the Nike store were packed with huge queues, don’t think it’s been as unpopular as many would like to think.

I think he’s a bit passed it now, and he’s Danish. Whilst I probably agree, it’s a little harsh. He had no service all night. I don’t think the result would have been any different with Kane. You said you don’t know, then said you do understand? Lots of reasons, it’s a pleasant atmosphere to take kids (poor atmosphere for a football game though IMO) to see some of the best players in the world, to see one of the best stadiums. Then for a lot of us it’s caps, as @North London Red said I’m not having people tell me I’m lucky in the summer for going to Germany when I’ve had to sit through the likes of that - not to mention to the last 2 qualifiers and the trashing from Hungary at Molineux. I think last night highlighted that we’re starting to lack quality in depth. I want to like Gallagher, he seems a decent lad from interviews and he has ability but as someone else said chasing shadows half the game and panicky on the ball. Maguire and Stones still our best options at the back. Dunk was hopeless. Left back is a real worry too. I thought last night Brazil defended well and we couldn’t break them down and yet when they went forward we struggled. It’s not exactly panic stations, especially at this point in the season when no one wants to get injured, March games are always crap. Lastly, why is it that all over the country every weekend there are clear rules that away fans do not go in home ends, and there’s no chance you’d get away with wearing your colours and cheering goals. Why is it allowed to happen at Wembley? It’s time England went back on the road for games, the atmosphere is so much better at club grounds. Looking forward to the Bosnia game and my first trip to St James Park.

That isn’t the same situation at all. It’s more akin to the occasions we’ve colour matched our badge to the kit - eg the purple shirt a few seasons back I think Still waiting for someone to answer why “defacing” a flag (actually just change the colours in a shape of a cross similar to the flag) is so terrible - but literally every club in the land defacing flags with all sorts of shit, often even changing the colours is absolutely fine? Even @Cowshedwading in talking about defacing flags, then shared a defaced flag celebrating it I wasn’t too fussed about this originally, and tbh still don’t care about the flag on the shirt, but the fallout is fascinating and the hypocrisy truly bizarre. Some even trying to claim now that Harvey Elliot, who likes to wear his collar up when there is one, was doing so to hide the cross

I personally think they’ve ruined that walk with all the buildings now, was iconic when it first opened, now you can barely see much of the stadium. Thanks for the tag about box park, I’ve told my mates it’ll be a struggle on a free but we’ll see what happens!

Let’s be honest this is it isn’t it? This is the real reason for some people being upset - just have to see Joey Barton’s tweet (the one in which he put them side by side and actually proved it’s not the same at all). Some have jumped to a conclusion about its meaning and got up in arms, had a mate straight away trying to talk about having enough of virtue signalling The proof that it’s just an artistic play on colours is literally in the away kit where they’ve done the same thing (albeit inside the shirt) with the away colours.

I’ll preface this by saying I’ve not watched it yet, but there’s been lots of debate about us being “boring” lately - and that stemming back years. I don’t get it, to be honest. Only a handful of clubs every season can have success, and a few fight relegation. Having experienced relegation several times I can’t exactly say I long for the “excitement” of a relegation battle. We’ve established ourselves as a championship side now over the last 20 years when prior to that we were a league one side. We’ve had a playoff final, cup semi final, beaten multiple premier league sides and earned a bit of a refutation for it. The double winning season was fantastic albeit at a lower level. LJ had us competitive most seasons in and around the playoffs - even if ultimately it tailed off but you can’t call those years boring. A couple of years of misery after that then Pearson had us competitive again, and I can’t tell you many games I watched under him that I would call “boring”. Lastlly, I don’t understand how we can be more boring than even a team like Swindon or Rovers nearby - they literally have no chance of reaching this level in their current states, so they’re doing all that 1-2 levels below us. One of thems even been non league. If anyone thinks promotion from the conference is more exciting than watching us compete at the top of the championship and beating the likes of Man Utd, West Ham, competing with Man City over two legs etc then football isn’t for you.

That’s a defaced flag?

Some said no other country would stand for this, even home nations, Scotland have done it a few times - particularly that yellow cross on the red kit. That’s exactly the same as Nike have done isn’t it? And no one has commented on the badge on the away shirt either. I think Joey Barton’s made it clear what his problem is with it and others are jumping on a bandwagon. Also no one has answered if they were bothered in 2010/11 and if not why not? Ummm there’s “defaced” England flags up and down the country every Saturday afternoon?

Ah ok thanks, I struggle to understand it all tbh! I find your postings on some of it useful though Just bugs me with Leicester that they got away with it in 2014 when they won promotion, then had their "fairytale" with little punishment. Think they ended up settling with the EFL for about 3 million because they didn't come back down

Same as when they went up then - cant do anything because they'll no longer be in this league. This is where the Premier League / Championship divide becomes a joke. As others have said, presumably Leicester will only get punished if/when they go up - and they'll already get the rewards for that

And even more obvious when you see the flag on the away shirt following the same trend More intriguied by the material on that shirt, looks like a cricket jumper

Not sure what bit of my post you're referencing. I agree Nike probably shouldn't have done this, though I'm far from actually bothered. But all the comments are about the flag and how wrong it is to change it - yet there's many examples of that happening that people aren't actually fussed about - even clubs who wear blue using a blue cross as a flag. I would suspect some people are bothered because of what they perceive the colours to mean, but that's just speculation. I don't remember any uproar in 2011. I believe Nike have since said the cross is to represent the colour scheme of the kits - eg the purple and blue trims.

So my view is that I can understand why people don't like it. As a "lefty" I'd usually be in the "so what" crowd - but I think Nike have messed up here. I think Umbro got away with it, probably in part because people didn't even realise or think about it, but also because it still has the actual red cross - it just has others. It does beg the question why only some defacing of the flag is frowned upon. In some countries, eg the USA, their flag is highly protected. It's deemed unacceptable to deface or add anything to the US flag. Over here, we have all sorts of shit added to England flags by club fans, sometimes even colour changes - and it goes completely without comment:

They dont show the game, but you're only allowed in with a match ticket - so it's predominently pre and post game drinks / food.

I dont know about one to avoid as such, but I imagine after 3ish it'll be one in one out and I've seen some queues. The problem I'm tackling with my mates (6 of us going) is that if you decide you can't get in and it's 3.30 / 4, you're kinda stuck in the area. I don;t know what it's like inside as haven't been since 2021 but back then it was decent, plenty of space and table service via app - but as I say it was limited by covid numbers and such like. I remember they were also helpful that one of our group turned up a bit later and they let him queue jump to join us (was one in one out at that point), the door staff were really good and friendly.

absolutely agree, I hate the friendlies

Have you paid or just the free entry? I've done it before for Champs League final and it was decent because the numbers were limited, was the 2021 Covid year We've got the free entry but thinking it'll be too busy by time we get there - mates arent getting in til like 3-3:30. I know you have to be in before 3pm on the paid tickets

They're horrific, but needs must for caps for the away games / tournies