Bat Fastard

3 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Right, but that's because I don't give two shits if Steve pockets £30m. I care about what's happening on the pitch, which direction the club are headed in, and if/when we do sell players - how much of that is then used to benefit the club... which appears to have been £0m.

At the moment, as a fan, the only effect those sales have had on me are a) I no longer get to watch 2 of the most exciting players I've seen at AG in a long time, and b) er... that's kind of it. As far as I know we didn't need it for FFP, and even if we did the amount doesn't matter there as we weren't far off.

You've talked about him being in credit with SL. Maybe he is. But what about whether he's in credit with YOU, as a fan?

Unfortunately for us fans, players also have ambitions and it is hard to blame someone for accepting an opportunity to accept a life changing pay rise.  

10 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Fixed.

Not clever, not funny and not grown up!

1 hour ago, The Bard said:

Whether he's a legend depends on your age. If you saw John Atyeo play, it's laughable to call him.a legend. If you saw the likes of Ritchie, Gow etc it's silly. If you go back to the likes of Walsh/ Taylor/Newman it's possibly beginning to make sense.

The word legend is hugely overused.

I just missed Atyeo but my best pick for a legend is John Galley but there have been many players who will forever have a place in my pantheon - and they all played for Bristol City! We all take different things from our passion for the club. BTs passing ability and his goal against Liverpool rank him very highly in my opinion. His service and dedication to the cause has further burnished his star. 

8 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

All this means less pressure on the club to buy the ‘ big number 9’ . 
They will probably bring him into the squad next season and break him. 
 

Of course we could also argue that he will probably be brought into the first team next season and it will MAKE him.

7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Can you reference any of those interviews, any links? Just I've never seen them...

"pivotal" - debatable. 

I've not mentioned his ability to express himself, so that's irrelevant to this discussion.

He was one of a group that scouted players for the academy - in that role i'm happy for him to continue.

Ironically, one could argue we're yet to see the product of his time as academy manager on the pitch - as the number of first team debuts have dried up - time will tell on that one too. 

 

Sorry about the lack of dredging through hundreds of interviews, that is beyond my meagre technical skill.  Of course it is debateable, which is why we are debating it!

7 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

…… well, if our bean counters have that much power over critical appointments  within the operation and aren’t over-ruled by their boss SL, then that tells you all you need to know about his ability to run a successful football club!

Ideally a business should be run is a way that eliminates wasteful spending. Of course this relies on judgements by decision makers who sometimes seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Otherwise Nige would still be the manager - in my humble judgement.

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why make allowances for failure because of some discrete successes achieved in a different role in the past? If Scott Murray fails to bring the kit to a match does he get a pass because he once cupped his ear at Ninian Park?

While we're at it - why judge someone based on their accent?

I do not think he is a failure. I like his accent, it is the same as Mickey Bell - another of my heroes.

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Yep all good to have opinions - but facts also help.

The fact is our current crop of first team academy players (including recently departed Scott and Semenyo) were under the stewardship of Gary Probert as academy manager.

Talking of Alex Scott (as you mentioned premier league players earlier), he wasn't discovered or coached by BT - Scott was already in the first team when BT became academy manager in October 21. Same goes for Conway (1st team debut mid 21) and Bell (early 22) in reality.

Yes BT has played a big role in scouting and bringing in youth players, Semenyo for example, and we give him credit for that and he can continue in that role no problem. 

But that's only the very start of the process - back to Scott again - my opinion this time - i'd give far more credit to the lad himself, his family, the city youth coaches, the England youth coaches, NP and his coaches, and Phil Alexander or even SL for the sale - than I would BT in any of the process. 

That's not me saying he doesn't get any credit, but keep it in perspective. 

 

Listening to player and other interviews interviews over the years, many people have mentioned Brian Tinnion and his influence in a very positive way.  Of course there are lots of influences in building a player but I believe that Brian Tinnion is pivotal in terms of Bristol City.  The fact that he is not always great at expressing himself is not particularly relevant in my opinion. He can clearly make himself understood in football circles.  The fact that is is exposed in terms of his public speaking skills is a reflection of the directors, who clearly value his input but do not look after him as they perhaps should.

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Right, so he knows and is skilful at playing football and developing/running an academy. He is poor at communication, first team management (see: his failed attempt here), and basic literacy and numeracy.

So given all that which presumably you agree with, do you think he'd be better placed as some kind of academy director, or a technical director/CEO hybrid role of the entire club/footballing operation?

I believe that his main job is to assist with recognising which players are diamonds in the rough and spotting how we can recruit and improve them. He has to talk to the public because we appear to be understaffed in certain areas. Surely we should be prepared to cut him a bit of slack and recognise that he is a great football man.

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I just don’t think he’s particularly academic and, judging from his spelling, potentially dyslexic. Can’t tell if you’re joking about the foreign language thing. 

The issue here is that his current role requires a public speaking element. This isn’t his skill set. He’s expected to explain the club’s thinking on macro issues - and it’s clear he is weak in this area. You can’t just give him a pass because he was a good player and was successful in an academy role. Both are totally different.

We all deal with people who are not always good at expressing themselves but we can still see that they have great quality. I believe that Brian is a bit like that. And I was joking about the foreign language!

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

It doesn’t have to be a “PR Person” hired for a specific role - it can be as simple as having someone in the boardroom who has a basic understanding of comms and messaging - which we clearly don’t. 

Tinnion’s strengths seem to be in roles which aren’t public facing - his new role has taken him outside of his comfort zone and forced him into something he’s clearly not very good at.

I agree with your post but I am prepared to make allowances for any shortcomings in Brian's communication skills because I have a high regard for his overall contribution to our club. Judging by his accent he was clearly brought up speaking a foreign language, so it must be hard for the chap.

9 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Easy, you hire a PR person.

Most companies have a comms team who prep people for public or even internal communications. It's not rocket science. Employ someone with a bit of savvy to spin these statements into something more encouraging as per @Silvio Dantepost

I think the bean counters will be of the opinion that a PR person would be an expensive luxury.  I reckon that they could get a more enthusiastic following with better communications, but what do I know?

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Yes well done Brian, you are one cog in a big machine.

I think the vast majority have given and do give him credit for his part in that process - but I also think some want to give him more credit than he might actually be due, in that process.

And I also think the vast majority of fans also believe that, regardless, all of that doesn't add up to justify the promotion into the position he is now in at the club.

 

It is a game of opinions, and I think he is doing a good job and has done a good job in the past - both as a player and running the academy.  I think it also likely that the lean and mean management structure is an artefact of the bean counters who run the club. Brian has become the scapegoat. Unfairly in my humble opinion.

2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

You do realise that when a player comes through our academy and is sold on, that is down to numerous individuals within the club, not just being 'nursed' by Brian Tinnion, right?

Of course I know that. But many realise that Brian Tinnion is a very important part of that process and are prepared to give him a degree of credit for his input.

30 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

The Adam Murphy thread brings into focus once more just how bad our communication is. But it doesn’t need to be like this, and telling the truth doesn’t make you look stupid. Just off the top of my head, how much better would it have been if communication was the following:

Murphy

Instead of:

”He’s doing a long pre season”

Say: (my assumed position here)

”When he performed his medical it was a deal we still wanted to do but there were some concerns - although not ones we expect to be long term - if the players right you take the gamble like Bournemouth did with Scotty. We’re just making sure everything is fully right medically and well then target for him to be fully in the swing of things for next season”

Medube

Instead of:

”He didn’t play due to work permit issues”  (now known to be a lie)

Say:

”For whatever reason it didn’t work out for him in Belgium. However it’s only six months ago that he was a great prospect in Man City’s academy so we’re loaning him to see where he is, and to see if it’s a deal we want to do longer term”

Targets

Instead of:

”We hope to be ten points better off”

Say:

”We want to be around the playoffs. It looks unlikely to happen this season, but it’s not far away in real terms so we expect that although it’s difficult to be top two due to parachute clubs we want to be right in the mix below that next season”

Performance

Instead of:

”Everyone was happy three weeks ago”  and “We played well in 19 of 20 games”

Say:

”The Southampton performance was the level we want to be at, and we probably haven’t been at that enough. The challenge is we need to get there every week and although I think in most games there have been signs, they haven’t hit that consistent level for 90 minutes often enough. And that’s the challenge for the staff and for the players, and it’s one we’ll meet”

Obviously this doesn’t have to be exact, but how much better would everyone be feeling with a bit of truth, professional communication and acknowledgment everything isn’t awesome? It’s not even that it’s a difficult thing to do or makes them look worse!

You sound perfect for the job!!  How many young players have you recruited, nursed through the academy into the first team and then on to the Premier League?

Just now, Harry said:

No one is suggesting anything about him being in the first team. 
Just showing some concern as to why he’s had 4 and half months off and not even a single minute for the 21’s. 

He actually joined in January. Assuming it takes him a few weeks to settle into a new country, he may have been doing his pre-season work for 8 weeks or so. Tins said that he was just about ready, so maybe we can expect him to play in an academy or U21 side in the next week or so. We also don't know if he had any small injuries since he started.  Hardly a cause to start criticising Mr Tinnion. 

10 hours ago, Harry said:

Tinnion tells us he was the best player in Ireland. 
He also tells us in yesterdays interview that he hasn’t featured yet as he is still in “pre season” as the Irish league only finished in November!! 
 

November mind!! 
 

His last game was 3rd November. So he’s had 4 months and 10 days off so far. 
This would be the equivalent of it now being 18th September if you take the same number of days since we ended our season on 8th May. 

Interestingly, the other “best player in Ireland” (my opinion), Jack Moylan, also finished on 3rd November but has now made 10 appearances for Lincoln. They gradually integrated him and he’s now started the last 2 and scored 4 goals. A couple of ‘wow’ goals too. 
 

Anyway, my point is, 2 players who finished the Irish season on 3rd November. 1 has now made 10 league 1 appearances, the other is so-say still in pre-season and hasn’t even had a single minute for our under 21’s. 

What’s REALLY going on with him?? Is Brian telling us porkies again. There’s no way this kid is still in early pre season mode. Why has he not played a single minute for the 21’s at the very least?? 

I thought he said that he was the best YOUNG player in Ireland.  I stand to be corrected but that might explain why the 18 year old player has not been pushed straight into the first team to save our season.

11 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

No, the point of your original post was to highlight Tins making good financial transfer deals. I merely asked you to balance it with his poor ones. 

You keep making it about managers.

Are you a politician cos you still haven't answered the question ?

I simply made the point that Tins was part of the team that recruited players. Of course others had input and the final decision was made by the manager of the day.  Maybe some transfers were less wonderful than others, but to single out Tins for all the blame seems a trifle unfair - that is why I pointed out that the whole thread was a pile on with Tins as the victim.  People on here seem to delight in minimising his contribution to our club. I reckon that it is more significant - in a good way, than many realise.  Of course he also has to act within the constraints of the budget and his board of directors. We clearly disagree on his value to the club.

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

So in that vain NP gets credit too for Dickie. This thread though is about Tins and you referred to his value signings. I was merely pointing out that you have to counter balance that with his poor signings. Why have you made it about NP and not the subject matter.

It is a team effort and Tins is part of the team.  Nige used to say that he did not negotiate transfers, so that must have been the remit of either Tins or one of the directors.  Of course the point of this thread is to pile onto Tins.

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

The odds of Acey, Ap Sion or the other guy from Guernsey (forget his name) making it have to be slim to none.

The population of males on the island 15-24 (so the broad scouting range) is 3400 - so about 1/3 bigger in that age range than Yate and Sodbury. To get one player who can play championship from that number is pretty good (and that’s been borne out by the number of footballers from Guernsey historically).

We appear to be trying to get four through. I’m not saying it won’t happen - but statistically it would be staggering.

It’s a strange pond to fish in.

Ah - but consider the DNA!!

40 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

You really think a League one club will pay over a million for him ?

He's proved he isn't up to Championship quality so no one from this league will take a punt on him for that money.

You can't just take the value signings and ignore the losses.

Recruitment is a process and we have analysts as well as Tins and the manager of the day, who has the last word. Nige regarded Mehmeti as his maverick. Of course, Tins gets the blame because it fits the pile on narrative.

20 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Notice he didn't mention how much Mehmeti cost though. Only the cheaper signings.

Mehmeti shows flashes of real class but I have always been concerned with his lack of pace.  Given the size of fees in the transfer market, if he doesn't work out he can probably be sold without much loss or even at a profit.  Taken "in the round" with young recruits like Stokes and Murphy, Tins is clearly trying to get value for the club.  The Lansdown family reigning back on their already huge financial input and financial fair play rules are probably the driving reasons for the approach chosen by the club and being executed by Brian.  He deserves recognition for the value that he has brought the club. i find this pile on sickening for someone who has served the club in different roles so diligently for three decades.

Reading some of the posts on the subject of this pile on, and it seems that nobody realises that Brian is operating on a budget and to instructions given from above. He seems to have generally achieved good value with his signings and they are being employed within the pay structure set out by Jon and the bean counter.  Brian has leveraged substantial value from the academy to supplement our low cost recruitment policy. I would expect that Nige and his team were paid more than Liam and Hoggy.  This all serves to show why he is highly regarded by the owners and why we should all cut him some slack and appreciate the job that he has done in the circumstances.  

6 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

It seems that you would be happier supporting Oxo. Good luck with that,

It seems t me that whatever Brian said in the interview, people have mentally condemned him.  I thought he was open and passionate and gave us some interesting insights.  He is not a politician but is clearly passionate about our club and maybe, after some mature reflection, people will see that he has helped to bring good players into our club and has generated enormous value with his efforts.  I hope he stays because we will find it hard to find a more devoted and enthusiastic football person to be our TD.  Thank you Brian, I appreciate your efforts and achievements.