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16 Arrested In Dawn Raids


Maesknoll Red

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Ok let me try and explain it very clearly.

I know several people who have been involved in such incidents in the past, and none of them are very bright.

I know several people who have been to hundreds of football matches home and away and never had any problems, and they have good jobs and have done well for themselves.

FFS would you expect your board of directors or company secretary to go off on weekends getting arrested because of football altercations?

Just think about it. There is a very common theme with the offenders and their apologists 99% of the time. Perhaps it isnt the case this time, who knows.

That's the biggest load of s**te ive read on this thread. I honestly believe you have no idea what you are talking about.

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Why?

I've given my rationale, give yours.

I've been going down to city for 40 years, I've been all over the world following england, I've found myself in some sticky situations home and away, I've met hundreds of fans both of our club and others, some have been lets say active in football hooliganism over the years some have tried it when younger some came into it later some have never been involved at all but one thing is true they come from all aspects of the social spectrum from sink estate kids to company directors, 99% of people I've met and indeed still know are intelligent rational and passionate about football, sure there are some with low intelligence but equally not everyone who sits in the stands peacefully are Einstein are they?

To generalise that all those who get involved in such antics as the lowest common denominator is just ignorance.

It might not be right it might not be acceptable but it's been part of the fabric of football since the late 60s.

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I've been going down to city for 40 years, I've been all over the world following england, I've found myself in some sticky situations home and away, I've met hundreds of fans both of our club and others, some have been lets say active in football hooliganism over the years some have tried it when younger some came into it later some have never been involved at all but one thing is true they come from all aspects of the social spectrum from sink estate kids to company directors, 99% of people I've met and indeed still know are intelligent rational and passionate about football, sure there are some with low intelligence but equally not everyone who sits in the stands peacefully are Einstein are they?

To generalise that all those who get involved in such antics as the lowest common denominator is just ignorance.

It might not be right it might not be acceptable but it's been part of the fabric of football since the late 60s.

 

Remember anyone can be a 'company director' if they've registered a company. But anyway...

 

No I agree about the Einstein point, but I don't think it works in complete opposites. It may be the case in your experience of 40 years that clever and high powered people were involved but I wouldnt have thought it was the case these days.

 

I still expect the majority are your estate kids etc as you put it.

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Ha Ha, talk about stereotyping.

 

So from your theory all City fans from an estate are potential trouble makes and not very bright?

 

No, that isnt what I said.

 

I was stereotyping those arrested.

 

Show me 16 doctors, lawyers, accountants etc among them and I'll show you a liar.

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No, that isnt what I said.

 

I was stereotyping those arrested.

 

 

 

 

 

I suspect the IQ of those arrested/in trouble is pretty low and no doubt they think the police are scum and blah de blah.

 

Usual chav nonsense.

 

 

 

I still expect the majority are your estate kids etc as you put it.

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Why would anyone find it hard to miss?

People in the Atyeo or far ends of the Williams / Dollman would not have seen this

Yes they would have, you can see the pitch from all stands pretty much. It was hard to miss. There were people throwing things at the police and getting into scuffles all over the place. If you literally ran off down the tunnel out of the atyeo on 90 minutes you might have missed it but it would have taken effort.

 

Never saw any sky footage of City fans throwing anything - certainly wasn't broadcast on the programme.

 

Well it was on the news.

 

So you are saying people from the EE throwing things ?

Not heard that one before

I didn't mention the east end so please stop making stuff up. People from all stands ran onto the pitch and made a beeline for the way end.
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I doubt very much anybody innocent is being wrongfully banned or convicted because there's reams of CCTV.

 

It'll certainly take more than vague rumour from the small minority that consistently defend those who want to have a scrap at football to convince me.

 

Bottom line is, if someone goes to a football match and can't control themselves and breaks the law, I don't want them there.

 

You're welcome to disagree if you like, I don't mind one bit.

Thanks I will.

You are of course right that anti-social behaviour should not be tolerated, but some of your comments are sensationalist, ironically aggressive, and come across as attention-seeking, in a one man contest on how many times you can use words like vermin and scumbags in one sentence. I doubt very much if many if any of those who will eventually be convicted are indeed vermin or scum, and lets hope they learn from what will probably be a very expensive, disproportionate, lesson.

Dawn raids for a group of young lads that ran onto a piece of grass and shook their fists a bit? As we all know, most of them actually want to be stopped - had they wanted to they could have easily got through the stewards and to the Rovers fans.

Shock horror maybe some of them even had a bit of a scrap outside the ground. Whether you like it or not its what some young lads do, always have done, always will do. It's liable to happen every time large numbers of youths congregate, in any situation. Not all, but many, and I would suggest that in crowd behaviour even the least likely are likely to get caught up in it.

I'm not condoning breaking of the law or their actions, I'm not condoning aggressive behaviour, in the slightest. But it happens, and society, through the police and the courts if necessary, brings them back into line. Job done. But dawn raids and some of the emotive language you use is way OTT, in my opinion.

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Thanks I will.

You are of course right that anti-social behaviour should not be tolerated, but some of your comments are sensationalist, ironically aggressive, and come across as attention-seeking, in a one man contest on how many times you can use words like vermin and scumbags in one sentence. I doubt very much if many if any of those who will eventually be convicted are indeed vermin or scum, and lets hope they learn from what will probably be a very expensive, disproportionate, lesson.

Dawn raids for a group of young lads that ran onto a piece of grass and shook their fists a bit? As we all know, most of them actually want to be stopped - had they wanted to they could have easily got through the stewards and to the Rovers fans.

Shock horror maybe some of them even had a bit of a scrap outside the ground. Whether you like it or not its what some young lads do, always have done, always will do. It's liable to happen every time large numbers of youths congregate, in any situation. Not all, but many, and I would suggest that in crowd behaviour even the least likely are likely to get caught up in it.

I'm not condoning breaking of the law or their actions, I'm not condoning aggressive behaviour, in the slightest. But it happens, and society, through the police and the courts if necessary, brings them back into line. Job done. But dawn raids and some of the emotive language you use is way OTT, in my opinion.

Couple of points:

They must have shaken those fists pretty hard to injure 16 people. I know from watching them that there was far more to it than that. Hurling objects into the crowd, throwing punches - even at other city fans who tried to calm one of them down, punching a police horse... could go on.

You might just about be stopping short of condoning violent behaviour but you are trying to pretend it was just over exuberance which it was not and trying very hard to excuse it. Attitudes like yours are why it continues to happen.

By the way, writing aggressively on the internet (which I'm not doing) and behaving violently at a football stadium are worlds apart so there's no real irony there. There is however irony in how keen you are to complain about the police whilst ignoring one of the chief causes of their over zealousness.

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Couple of points:

They must have shaken those fists pretty hard to injure 16 people. I know from watching them that there was far more to it than that. Hurling objects into the crowd, throwing punches - even at other city fans who tried to calm one of them down, punching a police horse... could go on.

You might just about be stopping short of condoning violent behaviour but you are trying to pretend it was just over exuberance which it was not and trying very hard to excuse it. Attitudes like yours are why it continues to happen.

By the way, writing aggressively on the internet (which I'm not doing) and behaving violently at a football stadium are worlds apart so there's no real irony there. There is however irony in how keen you are to complain about the police whilst ignoring one of the chief causes of their over zealousness.

I'm not saying it was over exuberance at all. Notwithstanding the clown hitting a police horse and some idiots throwing things - which should be punished severely as being so cowardly and indiscriminate - in the main, it was kids shouting and posturing. Some of them will have had fisticuffs outside the ground - very little direct physical contact took place inside. I don't think that makes them vermin or scum though I do think they should get the proverbial clip round the ear.

I'm not complaining about the police, just questioning why the need for a dawn raid. Maybe there were logistical issues, but it seems OTT to me.

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I'm not saying it was over exuberance at all. Notwithstanding the clown hitting a police horse and some idiots throwing things - which should be punished severely as being so cowardly and indiscriminate - in the main, it was kids shouting and posturing. Some of them will have had fisticuffs outside the ground - very little direct physical contact took place inside. I don't think that makes them vermin or scum though I do think they should get the proverbial clip round the ear.

I'm not complaining about the police, just questioning why the need for a dawn raid. Maybe there were logistical issues, but it seems OTT to me.

I expect the ones arrested were the scumbags hitting police horses, throwing things and fighting. I don't care whether they were doing that inside the ground or outside - not sure why you feel that makes a difference.

I doubt very much people who ran on the pitch for a bit of a boast (who, to be clear, I've never labelled scum or vermin) were getting raided at 5am.

Of course, you will find the people who want to defend violence at football will swear blind that their mate did nothing, innocent people are getting pinched, blah blah blah - frankly it's not believable when there's CCTV and a long painstaking id process involved.

And let's be honest, dawn raids? We're talking knocking on doors here not armed swat teams. Who's being sensationalist really?

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Incredible amount of dialogue and debate on this thread; acts as quite an interesting read.  The problem is you just never know exactly what those being arrested, banned, and then possibly prosecuted, have actually done on the night.  I'm certain it amounts to a little bit more than just infringing on the field of play.

 

I know of at least ten people who were on the pitch that night, and not one of those people has been arrested or subjected to an early-morning wake up call at the hands of the police.

 

But in all honestly though, the measures used here by the police did seem very extreme and somewhat drastic.  I'd love to know exactly what those being arrested were guilty of.

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By expectation you really mean complete speculation.

Why not through these scumbags and 'mongs' as you call them into a nazi death camp?

That would be too good for them no doubt?

 

By expectation I meant expectation really.  I saw plenty of people committing violent offences at the ground, I know it was all caught on CCTV, it's not rocket surgery to put two and two together.  Why anybody takes these second hand protestations of innocence as gospel is beyond me.

 

Anyway, people who are violent at football are scumbags.  There's nothing controversial or debateable about that so nobody should be shy saying it.  Our tolerance should be nil for violence, it's that simple.

 

As for death camps, I think they're too expensive to administer.  It's not like we'll get any useful work out of the scumbags is it?

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By expectation I meant expectation really. I saw plenty of people committing violent offences at the ground, I know it was all caught on CCTV, it's not rocket surgery to put two and two together. Why anybody takes these second hand protestations of innocence as gospel is beyond me.

Anyway, people who are violent at football are scumbags. There's nothing controversial or debateable about that so nobody should be shy saying it. Our tolerance should be nil for violence, it's that simple.

As for death camps, I think they're too expensive to administer. It's not like we'll get any useful work out of the scumbags is it?

So if jet swings an elbow at an Oldham player and gets sent off for violent conduct you'll be happy to brand him a scumbag and have the full force of the law brought down on him including a lifetime ban from Ashton gate?

Happy days.

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By expectation I meant expectation really.  I saw plenty of people committing violent offences at the ground, I know it was all caught on CCTV, it's not rocket surgery to put two and two together.  Why anybody takes these second hand protestations of innocence as gospel is beyond me.

 

 

You can never rely on CCTV. Sometimes it is deleted by the police goes missing as in the case of Hillsborough.

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I read this topic with interest and especially the comments from Nibor. If you believe that people accused of being violent and throwing things at football matches are 'scumbags' then I fear you have led a very sheltered life and have no knowledge of what true 'scumbags' really do exist within local society and what they are capable of.

 

I do not condone any football violence and believe people CONVICTED in a court of law of committing VIOLENT offences at/relating to football games should serve a substantial sentence and ban from football grounds. People celebrating a (rare) victory and running on to the pitch/swearing/taunting opposition fans is not big or clever and frankly pretty pathetic but it should not result in lifetime bans from clubs they have spent thousands of pounds following over the years. If a city fan hits a rovers fan or vice versa they should feel the force of the law, but IMHO this doesn't make them scumbags, idiots maybe, but rarely is violence at football perpetuated against innocent law abiding fans - if a 'firm' wants trouble they will get it, but rarely at the expense of innocent people, in my experience anyway.

 

With excellent CCTV, Football liaison officers, spotters and intelligence police are very well equipped to deal with any trouble in or around grounds these days. I'm only in my early 30s but remember genuinely scary away days when younger at Swansea, Portsmouth, Plymouth and more where there was genuine, nasty violence that went unpunished. These days football fans are a very easy target and I personally do not believe that the punishment is commensurate with the offence committed.

 

Football is (was) a working mans game and I think that now more than ever it has become so sanitised that it bears little resemblance to the game I started loving in the late 80s/early 90s and BCFC in particular has lost touch with its core support. I've followed city home and away ever since I could, like many on here, but the game I've enjoyed the most in the past few years was the cup tie at Brislington last week. Chatting to bris fanatics, players, welling players, the bar man, having some banter and a cider without any trouble or the need for any police was a treat, and to be made to feel so welcome to was lovely.I wonder what football will look like in 20 years time.

;

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So if jet swings an elbow at an Oldham player and gets sent off for violent conduct you'll be happy to brand him a scumbag and have the full force of the law brought down on him including a lifetime ban from Ashton gate?

Happy days.

Oh dear! Let's all feel sorry for the naughty boys, stupid enough to get caught on cctv doing naughty things. Look if the evidence proves individuals committed offences, then i and many other proper fans would rather they never set foot at the Gate again. Try not to worry yourself over it too much, it's not like they're friends of yours is it? I feel sure you wouldn't mix with such idiots!
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Oh dear! Let's all feel sorry for the naughty boys, stupid enough to get caught on cctv doing naughty things. Look if the evidence proves individuals committed offences, then i and many other proper fans would rather they never set foot at the Gate again. Try not to worry yourself over it too much, it's not like they're friends of yours is it? I feel sure you wouldn't mix with such idiots!

You misunderstand his point. Old parkender does not seek sympathy he only asks for consistency. He is right to do so.
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Suggestion (which I can't claim credit for) that to put pressure on the club to rescind these arbitrary and unfair lifetime bans for a whole heap of nothing at Cardiff / the derby that there is a boycott of the FA Cup R1 game and an associated demo is held rather than just staying in the pub.

There is a big difference between the club not condoning violence and it banning lifelong fans for incredibly minor offences. The club is not claiming the moral high ground here, just acting like a newly-appointed moderator who has just discovered the ban button.

They may have the approval of a couple of mouthy keyboard warriors but to the average fan they come across as petty and vindictive.

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