pongo88 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 As I understand it, once the safe standing is official, there will be room for another 3,000 or so due to the fact that you can get 2 people standing as opposed to one sitting in the safe standing seats (if you see what I mean...). So capacity could be around 30k once safe standing is formally adopted. The problem with using safe standing as the basis of a 30,000 capacity, is how many people would want to stand? There are some supporters who like to stand, but today this is a minority, as most want to sit. If we ever get to the stage where gates are around the 30,000 level a lot of these extra people will be new / casual supporters. Some might want to stand, but personally, I think these new supporters will be used to watching football on TV and will expect a bit of comfort. If all they can do is stand, they may decide to stay at home and continue watching Sky football on their sofas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 WRONG. The EE will be demolished in March 2014 if we get the go ahead. It has to, so the replacement stand is ready for the start of the 2015 season. I think it will be demolished early next year, but not necessarily for the reason you state. I think the earlier they crack on with it, the more time they will have the following summer(2015) to start phase 2 - moving the pitch and modifying the dolman. These structures can be erected surprisingly fast - I seem to remember that wolves had completed demolition before the summer was out, and even had fans populating the new lower tier before november on their impressive new stan culis stand. Just one other thing. Was wondering about the flats behind the dolman. They have been there for over 50 years; I doubt whether their life span has much left...10-15 years at best. Imagine the space if they were demolished. They'd prob have to locate the bowling green, but still... Maybe we've been looking at it the wrong way with regards to the industrial units to the west. Remove the flats, and re locate the mini ind est north of them to the car park behind the east end, and...voila! Rotate and build. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 The problem with using safe standing as the basis of a 30,000 capacity, is how many people would want to stand? There are some supporters who like to stand, but today this is a minority, as most want to sit. If we ever get to the stage where gates are around the 30,000 level a lot of these extra people will be new / casual supporters. Some might want to stand, but personally, I think these new supporters will be used to watching football on TV and will expect a bit of comfort. If all they can do is stand, they may decide to stay at home and continue watching Sky football on their sofas. How do you know? We haven't had the option for twenty plus years. Personally, I prefer to stand, but don't get the chance, There will be many more like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Plonker Who cares about a hotel, it's got asbsolutely nothing to do with the ground, or football. A redeveloped AG gives us 80% of the income we could have achieved at AV, and more than sufficient capacity. I'll be delighted if it's confirmed we're staying at Ashton Gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 A few points: - Wasn't the club on about re-opening the Ashton Gate railway station regardless of whether we remain at AG or go to AV. - Who now owns the old Cruickshanks Mercedes garage? That's quite a large area of land that could house a hotel/club shop/bar etc.. - When I mentioned to DaveL about buying the houses behind the EE or Atyeo, he quite rightly mentioned how expensive it would be, but there's always that old devil inside of me thinking that the club are buying them anyhow, but doing it on the sly to keep costs down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 This is what I was talking about earlier, re: molineux. Having researched it further, it was even more remarkable than I remembered. From commencing demolition by ripping out the first seats on may 23rd, it was actually open to supporters (lower tier) for a match on the 1st oct. That represents an incredibly quick turn around. Six weeks into the new season, or 4 home games missed. I'm not saying the east end will necessarily be the same, as it obviously depends on construction technique (particularly the roof), but it illustrates what can be done. If work began in feb/march, then I'm sure there's a good chance that it would at least be partially open at some stage during the 2014/15 season. Images courtesy of wwfc live webcam, and skyscrapercity forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opeth67 Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Very depressing this thread is. Ashton Vale is the only obvious, sensible route for the club to go down. As that looks unlikely it will now only be a third class option left to us. A third class option for a third class team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 A few points: - Wasn't the club on about re-opening the Ashton Gate railway station regardless of whether we remain at AG or go to AV. - Who now owns the old Cruickshanks Mercedes garage? That's quite a large area of land that could house a hotel/club shop/bar etc.. - When I mentioned to DaveL about buying the houses behind the EE or Atyeo, he quite rightly mentioned how expensive it would be, but there's always that old devil inside of me thinking that the club are buying them anyhow, but doing it on the sly to keep costs down. didn't lansdown buy that 2 years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 didn't lansdown buy that 2 years ago? Dunno, it's all quiet. I think he now owns the old Hirerite, hence why the club uses it, but not so sure about the Merc garage. Whilst I think about, who now owns the old Wedlock's pub site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Dunno, it's all quiet. I think he now owns the old Hirerite, hence why the club uses it, but not so sure about the Merc garage. Whilst I think about, who now owns the old Wedlock's pub site? thats where the football musium and new socail club/pub is going isn;t it? so my guess would again be the club, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 thats where the football musium and new socail club/pub is going isn;t it? so my guess would again be the club, Really? I thought the museum was going down the KFC corner of the Williams and East End? That's what the artist's impressions show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 As I understand it, once the safe standing is official, there will be room for another 3,000 or so due to the fact that you can get 2 people standing as opposed to one sitting in the safe standing seats (if you see what I mean...). So capacity could be around 30k once safe standing is formally adopted. That is a fair point but its not a certainty it will happen. In the meantime an investment of, what is it, 60% of the AV option is, in my view, not money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Since Ashton Vale was announced, and with the impact of financial fair play rules I've always felt that, as far as our stadium is concerned, doing nothing would never be an option. Ashton Vale would have given the best chance of putting in place all the facilities that would enable the club to maximise income both on match day and also on non-match days - hotels, conference facilities etc. I don't think that AV is necessarily dead in the water, but suspect that SL realises that to get it will take a long game, so in the meantime the only alternative is to make the most of AG through redevelopment. Ok it might not give us a hotel and conference facilities, but we can get better spectator facilities and some corporate boxes in place and while we are in league 1 will we really miss a 30,000 capacity? At the time AV was announced we could conceivably have been a season from the prem. Realistically, and with the new football philosophy, player recruitment and bringing through young players we are at least 5-7 years from a shot at the prem - baring something quite remarkable so will we need the ability to increase the capacity of AG if, during that time other stadium options materialise - either AV resurfacing or your idea of SL having a trick up his sleeve. It surely would have to be 'the trick up the sleeve' because after spending somewhere between 40 and 50 million on a redeveloped AG it is not going to be ditched for a new stadium altogether unless someone comes up with some sort of wizardry business case for AG becoming the sole new home for Bristol Rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 It will happen, its already happening with some clubs now allowing, in accordance with their local council, supporters to stand in designated areas. Do you know which clubs these are? I don't think we'll need the extra capacity unless we make it to the Premiership and I don't think they allow standing areas. I have a feeling pro standing football supporters are going to be disappointed as this is about rugby, not football. At the moment, I'd rate the chances of standing at Ashton Gate to watch football as similar to bringing back smoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Some clubs already 'allow' standing. If you go to watch villa a huge section of the holt end stand for most of the game-without being pestered by stewards. Similar at Tottenham and watching games on tv you can always see fans standing, its almost an unwritten rule at some grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 "Mark my words, this stadium will be built." Sounds pretty hollow now. Please go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Some clubs already 'allow' standing. If you go to watch villa a huge section of the holt end stand for most of the game-without being pestered by stewards. Similar at Tottenham and watching games on tv you can always see fans standing, its almost an unwritten rule at some grounds. Fans standing up and stewards turning a blind eye is different to increasing capacity by 3000 due to designated standing areas. I know some clubs with older grounds still have standing areas are still allowed to use them, but has anyone in the top two divisions been allowed to build a new standing area recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cider red Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Fans standing up and stewards turning a blind eye is different to increasing capacity by 3000 due to designated standing areas. I know some clubs with older grounds still have standing areas are still allowed to use them, but has anyone in the top two divisions been allowed to build a new standing area recently? No your right there are no 'designated' standing areas in the top two divisions. I was just making the point that you can in effect stand at a lot of games, and big contingent of fans actually prefer to. Hopefully by putting in place safe standing we can be the club that trials it, and gets the laws changed back. Lets not forget the reasons for the laws have been shown as basically bad policing, totally different to safe standing, hell if its good enough for 80k plus crowds at Dortmund it should be good enough for the top flight in England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 also when was it bad to have a back up plan? unlike the gas we are able to redevlop because our owner has the money to do so, if the gas lose to trash they are stuck with the minimal forever Not bad to have a back up plan at all, for what it's worth I think BCFC's dealings over AV are i'm afraid to say are symptomatic of how the club has been run in recent years, the biggest mistake was putting far too much trust in the Bristol council in that they could firstly be trusted and secondly even get the legal procedures correct, had SL taken a look around Bristol he would see what barren wasteland various councils in Bristol had allowed it to become, when it comes to first class venues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 Not bad to have a back up plan at all, for what it's worth I think BCFC's dealings over AV are i'm afraid to say are symptomatic of how the club has been run in recent years, the biggest mistake was putting far too much trust in the Bristol council in that they could firstly be trusted and secondly even get the legal procedures correct, had SL taken a look around Bristol he would see what barren wasteland various councils in Bristol had allowed it to become, when it comes to first class venues. I think the single biggest mistake was taking the original TVG inquiry too lightly. I'd say they got everything else about right. Tagging the new stadium to the world cup campaign was exactly the right thing to do. Getting the then leader of the city council on the front of the evening post waving her "bring the world cup to Bristol" flag was a classic. Even the Lib Dems had to support that and that meant supporting a new stadium. I doubt it would have got through planning without the world cup carrot. They so nearly got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I think the single biggest mistake was taking the original TVG inquiry too lightly. I'd say they got everything else about right. Tagging the new stadium to the world cup campaign was exactly the right thing to do. Getting the then leader of the city council on the front of the evening post waving her "bring the world cup to Bristol" flag was a classic. Even the Lib Dems had to support that and that meant supporting a new stadium. I doubt it would have got through planning without the world cup carrot. They so nearly got it right. After that particular dream died, the council ****** up more than once over legal procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderup Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 No your right there are no 'designated' standing areas in the top two divisions. I was just making the point that you can in effect stand at a lot of games, and big contingent of fans actually prefer to. Hopefully by putting in place safe standing we can be the club that trials it, and gets the laws changed back. Lets not forget the reasons for the laws have been shown as basically bad policing, totally different to safe standing, hell if its good enough for 80k plus crowds at Dortmund it should be good enough for the top flight in England! FYI, while most of the standing areas at the WFS are safe standing, the south tribune is pure old fashioned terracing with proper old school barriers. They have clip in rail seating which is only used for European games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingswood Robin Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 After that particular dream died, the council ****** up more than once over legal procedures. For sure, we'd be disappointed if they didn't! However, If we'd have dotted all the i's and crossed all the t's at the original inquiry we wouldn't have got into all this split decision/judicial review nonsense in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverRed Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 How does one ban a stadium? By declaring a piece of land fill to be a village green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted November 15, 2013 Report Share Posted November 15, 2013 I think it will be demolished early next year, but not necessarily for the reason you state. I think the earlier they crack on with it, the more time they will have the following summer(2015) to start phase 2 - moving the pitch and modifying the dolman. These structures can be erected surprisingly fast - I seem to remember that wolves had completed demolition before the summer was out, and even had fans populating the new lower tier before november on their impressive new stan culis stand. Just one other thing. Was wondering about the flats behind the dolman. They have been there for over 50 years; I doubt whether their life span has much left...10-15 years at best. Imagine the space if they were demolished. They'd prob have to locate the bowling green, but still... Maybe we've been looking at it the wrong way with regards to the industrial units to the west. Remove the flats, and re locate the mini ind est north of them to the car park behind the east end, and...voila! Rotate and build. Sorted. Not so fast. I'm sure that I used to go skating and walk the dog on that bowling green. Besides which "Nelson Mandela House" is likely to be designated a world heritage centre for the role that it played in the history of British light entertainment. It'll shortly be a Grade 2 listed building for sure. We couldn't possibly build upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I have one hope and that is if we do not achieve planning permission for AV, that SL achieves planning permission for something that'll make every single nimby wish that they hadn't opposed the stadium, a maximum security prison, a big travelers site, speedway, a huge hospital, a leper colony anything because boy don't they deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 I have one hope and that is if we do not achieve planning permission for AV, that SL achieves planning permission for something that'll make every single nimby wish that they hadn't opposed the stadium, a maximum security prison, a big travelers site, speedway, a huge hospital, a leper colony anything because boy don't they deserve it. Ideal spot for a sewage farm and nuclear waste recycling plant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Not so fast. I'm sure that I used to go skating and walk the dog on that bowling green. Besides which "Nelson Mandela House" is likely to be designated a world heritage centre for the role that it played in the history of British light entertainment. It'll shortly be a Grade 2 listed building for sure. We couldn't possibly build upon it. Don't forget Chris Garland grew up there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 16, 2013 Report Share Posted November 16, 2013 Don't forget Chris Garland grew up there! **** me the original Stig of the dump then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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