Nigel Farage V Nick Clegg....

[Kid in the Riot]

I see the EU are banning mobile phone roaming charges from next year - great news for people like me who nip over to Europe a fair bit.

 

I heard Farage the other day say "don't worry, leaving the EU won't mean you won't be able to buy your Mercedes and Champagne from Europe" - sums the bloke up perfectly and who he's appealing to.

[marshy]

 

I see the EU are banning mobile phone roaming charges from next year - great news for people like me who nip over to Europe a fair bit.

 

I heard Farage the other day say "don't worry, leaving the EU won't mean you won't be able to buy your Mercedes and Champagne from Europe" - sums the bloke up perfectly and who he's appealing to.

 

I detect a note of humour in his comment about Mercedes and Champagne. If you think that sums him up I respectfully suggest that you haven't been listening carefully enough.

With regard to banning mobile roaming charges this is another example of the EU getting involved in distorting the market. It may be great for people like yourself who travel a lot but the companies will compensate by increasing charges elsewhere. This means of course that those who prefer not to travel or don't have the means to travel much will end subsidising those who do.

Another example is the decision to stop the insurance companies giving lower rates to young women drivers as opposed to young men despite the fact that all the evidence from statistics gathered over the years indicates that young men have far more accidents.

[Calculus]

Apart from when she said there could be EU reform?

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26362034

French don't seem keen though

 

Have just returned from some time in France and if anybody thought they didn't like Sarkhozy you should hear what they say about Hollande. I spoke to many who are of the firm belief that France is fast becoming a basket case and that the current socialist government is very unpopular. Given a distaste for Sarkhozy and co the population seem to be heading towards the daughter and father Le Penn. I believe that the mood is running against any development of an 'ever closer Union'  in France - the elections just haven't caught up with it yet. The message will be received loud and clear in the upcoming Euro elections, after which expect attitudes to change. Farage plays a useful role in all this in the UK, but by the time of the general election his fox will be, I predict, well and truly shot.

[marshy]

I didn't see the first debate so purely judging on what I saw last night. My impressions were that Nick Clegg has probably spent too long in the company of Cameron as he seemed to constantly be making silly smug comments and digs, then looking around waiting to see people thinking how clever he is. I actually think Cameron speaks to him like this and now was just repeating it on Farage.

I know Clegg is a politician and I see how they behave in PM's questions, which I like for it's playground humour, but I expected better from Clegg, more dignity. That bit about WG Grace was embarrassing and cringeworthy. And all those references to things being 'dangerous'.

I think all Farage has to do is stay calm and yes stand up for himself but don't get dragged into the playground bully tactics and he will take votes.

 

The first debate could be likened to two boxers weighing each other up in an opening round. Once Farage realised what a lieing, hectoring, smug, self-serving snake he was up against he changed tack accordingly, came out for the second round, and delivered the knock-out blow. Dignity, from Clegg, you will be waiting a long, long time. It says a lot that, after Blair, people could be fooled again and a man like this can rise to the position of Deputy Prime Minister.

The answer to the question, 'How do you see the EU in ten years time ?'' was instructive. Clegg, 'pretty much the same as it is today'. Well 50% youth unemployment in Spain, for instance, and correspondingly high figures elsewhere. Demonstrations in 53 cities in Spain yesterday and a huge one planned in Brussels tomorrow(AFP). Is that where we want to be in ten years time? People were alarmed and critical of Farage's mention of the far right party in Greece but he was simply stating the truth. The National Front is making huge gains in France. You have to be blind not to see what is developing, or perhaps people simply do not wish to see it. Increasingly people have had enough of these tyrannical despots in Brussels and wish to reinstate their self-governing democracies.

[Mr Mosquito]

The first debate could be likened to two boxers weighing each other up in an opening round. Once Farage realised what a lieing, hectoring, smug, self-serving snake he was up against he changed tack accordingly, came out for the second round, and delivered the knock-out blow. Dignity, from Clegg, you will be waiting a long, long time. It says a lot that, after Blair, people could be fooled again and a man like this can rise to the position of Deputy Prime Minister.

The answer to the question, 'How do you see the EU in ten years time ?'' was instructive. Clegg, 'pretty much the same as it is today'. Well 50% youth unemployment in Spain, for instance, and correspondingly high figures elsewhere. Demonstrations in 53 cities in Spain yesterday and a huge one planned in Brussels tomorrow(AFP). Is that where we want to be in ten years time? People were alarmed and critical of Farage's mention of the far right party in Greece but he was simply stating the truth. The National Front is making huge gains in France. You have to be blind not to see what is developing, or perhaps people simply do not wish to see it. Increasingly people have had enough of these tyrannical despots in Brussels and wish to reinstate their self-governing democracies.

 

I like the boxing analogy. Nigel Farage has banged out the Liberal EU Champion early in the second round - Nick Clegg is on the canvas and out for the count and waiting for medical attention and the stretcher bearers. Ed Miliband and David Cameron are too cowardly to come out and face the peoples' Champion that is Nigel Farage.

[Kid in the Riot]

I think Nigel Farage is to politics what Audrey Harrison is to boxing. People's Champions don't get ridiculed!

[bucksred]

A ****** plague on every last God Damned one of these politicians. Every one of them is utterly full of shit.

Clegg and his Eurofanatic pals with their ****** atrococious Nnny State knows best shit piss me right off. European commisioners, bureaucrats and functionaries, are unelected, smug, uncontrolled, unaccountable vermin, who are detroying what little is left of Europe after 60 ****** years of Socialist bull shit. No European country is now in a position to defend its self, even if the politicians allow it to. No European country is in control of anything of its own life. These Bureaucrats, commisioners and politicians have no loyalty, allegiance or pride in any of their countries.

The UK, France, Holland, Spain, Italy, Germany, Poland, Austria, Hungary, Portugal, Sweden, Greece, Denmark have all been around in one form or another for 1000 years. Why the **** are these corrupt scumbags so hellbent on destroying everything????

As for ****** Farage, thanks to him it is now impossible to have an adult discussion on Europe...this little Englander bollocks is now no longer n option. Point to Farage: The USA is now becoming like Europe a passed it, bankrupt state...there are no allies out there. These so called democracies of Russia (Whom I notice you admire, which writes volumes of YOUR democratic values)China, India, Brazil, South ****** Africa & Argentina are really gonna treat us as equals...

Wether we like it or not, the ****** Europeans who ever the ****** hell they are have to get a working relationship.

The ****** corrupt, autocratic, incompetant, patronising, arrogant, intolerant, and inept EU, and all its ******* groupies, AND the the small minded morons like Farage and your fellow traveller politicians who differ not one jot from the EU bastards you despise.

All of you **** off to hell and for **** sake can we have a grown up conversation on REFORMING and MODERNISING the ****** mess which is Europe, or 1000 years of European history, culture and civilisation will be lost in the maelstrom of corrupt misrule....

[Mr Mosquito]

[Red-Robbo]

 

 

I can only imagine the howls of abuse on here if it had been a Tory government that had used the proceeds from a gold sale to bail out the banks, pouring money into the laps of his 'banker chums'.

 

As I pointed out, the gold stocks were halved in 1999, nine years before any bank needed to be bailed out.

 

There is a lot you can criticise Brown for, but I'm not sure the bail outs are one. What would you do as Chancellor? Let the country's financial institutions collapse like dominos because some banks had put large amounts into hopelessly overstretched US mortgage providers.

 

I need hardly point out that the decision to intervene was supported by G.G. Osborne and the Tory front bench.

 

However I don't think you can call bankers "Labour's chums". Look at where there money goes:  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/feb/08/tory-funds-half-city-banks-financial-sector

[screech]

As I pointed out, the gold stocks were halved in 1999, nine years before any bank needed to be bailed out.

 

There is a lot you can criticise Brown for, but I'm not sure the bail outs are one. What would you do as Chancellor? Let the country's financial institutions collapse like dominos because some banks had put large amounts into hopelessly overstretched US mortgage providers.

 

I need hardly point out that the decision to intervene was supported by G.G. Osborne and the Tory front bench.

 

However I don't think you can call bankers "Labour's chums". Look at where there money goes:  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/feb/08/tory-funds-half-city-banks-financial-sector

 

 

Why not let them fall like dominos.

They could have given every household the money back from quantitiative easing and we would have put it all back into the economy ourselves.

[Red-Robbo]

Why not let them fall like dominos.

They could have given every household the money back from quantitiative easing and we would have put it all back into the economy ourselves.

 

 

I'm glad you're not Chancellor, Screech!

[screech]

I'm glad you're not Chancellor, Screech!

 

I never required a bail out Robbo, neither did millions of other ordinary folk including my 6 and 8 year old kids who have had no choice but to pay for something they had no part of.

We bailed out rotten banks and the weasel bankers saved their jobs to **** us over for another day, so if we let banks go to the wall only the people who lost money would need their money back.

[Red-Robbo]

[And Its Smith]

I never required a bail out Robbo, neither did millions of other ordinary folk including my 6 and 8 year old kids who have had no choice but to pay for something they had no part of.

We bailed out rotten banks and the weasel bankers saved their jobs to **** us over for another day, so if we let banks go to the wall only the people who lost money would need their money back.

What a beautifully simplistic view of the world.

[chipdawg]

Why not let them fall like dominos.

They could have given every household the money back from quantitiative easing and we would have put it all back into the economy ourselves.

I reckon that's a bit extreme, but with the Power of Hindsight it probably would have been better to let the first couple of organisations (Northern Rock and B&B was it?) fall as a warning to the rest. The government could have underwritten the value of savings for customers. It probably would have modified the behaviour of the others and might have made a difference. Certainly wouldn't have made things worse

[Nibor]

More good work by the EU ensuring consumers don't pay twice for the internet and scrapping roaming fees...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26865869

[screech]

What a beautifully simplistic view of the world.

 

Isn't it Dave.

 

I like to cut through the bullshit, using millions of peoples future taxes to bail out toxic banks and bankers is not a good use of our money, they have learned absolutely nothing apart from if it goes to shit again in the future due to their recklessness, nobody will be held responsible and somebody else picks up the tab.

Giddeon and friends in government are always in the background helping these scumbags with the next deal, the latest gift to their City mates was the Royal Mail sell off.

Iceland reacted in exactly the right way, their prime minister had it right when he said "this is not public debt and never will be."

[Mr Mosquito]

[marshy]

As I pointed out, the gold stocks were halved in 1999, nine years before any bank needed to be bailed out.

 

There is a lot you can criticise Brown for, but I'm not sure the bail outs are one. What would you do as Chancellor? Let the country's financial institutions collapse like dominos because some banks had put large amounts into hopelessly overstretched US mortgage providers.

 

I need hardly point out that the decision to intervene was supported by G.G. Osborne and the Tory front bench.

 

However I don't think you can call bankers "Labour's chums". Look at where there money goes:  http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2011/feb/08/tory-funds-half-city-banks-financial-sector

 

Between 1999 and 2002 Gordon, Canute, ''I have put an end to boom and bust'' Brown sold off 60% of UK gold at rock bottom prices. George Osborne called it ''one of the worst decisions ever made by a British Chancellor.

[marshy]

More good work by the EU ensuring consumers don't pay twice for the internet and scrapping roaming fees...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26865869

 

I think we should watch and wait for the law of unintended consequences to come into effect.

[Nibor]

I think we should watch and wait for the law of unintended consequences to come into effect.

 

If there are any, and I doubt it, they will be far better than giving telcos who pretty much have a monopoly a means of making you pay them for everything twice without being able to blame them for it.

 

Let's face it, it doesn't matter who makes the law when it's good law.  Nor does it matter who makes the law when it's bad law. 

 

I've seen lots of sandy vaginas from people who seem to think it's important that it's our bunch of useless cretins who make laws - it isn't.  It's just important that we get good laws.

[Mr Mosquito]

[Red-Robbo]

Between 1999 and 2002 Gordon, Canute, ''I have put an end to boom and bust'' Brown sold off 60% of UK gold at rock bottom prices. George Osborne called it ''one of the worst decisions ever made by a British Chancellor.

 

 

So you accept my point that it was well before the bank bailout and entirely unconnected.

 

Your man Gideon certainly knows a thing about bad decisions - he takes them constantly - but nothing can perhaps match the bad decision to sell off 100% of Britain's utilities and railways between 1982 and 1996. 

[Paddy31]

[Mr Mosquito]

[Mr Mosquito]

I think you have made a spurious link between the Greeks joining the Euro and their sovereign debt crisis. The Greek Ministry of Finance suggested 5 major causes for the economic problems of 2009:

 

• Lower than expected GDP growth
• Huge fiscal imbalances developed during the years from 2004 to 2009
• Enormous government debt
• Lack of budget compliance
• Lack of statistical credibility (i.e. the government was 'fanciful' in its predictions)

 

 

.....you've fallen for the EU political propaganda hook, line and sinker. Here's a short and concise explanation as to the problems in Greece, as Nigel Farage rightly states, it's politicians and banksters versus ordinary people......

 

[Mr Mosquito]

 

Finally, is it possible for you to write a post without all the rubbish. It is truly tedious to read your description of Blair or the EU each and every time you have thought?

 

Watch and learn......"WOW Nigel Farage UKIP Takes on Tony Blair the War Criminal back in 2005 !!!"........ 

 

[marshy]

If there are any, and I doubt it, they will be far better than giving telcos who pretty much have a monopoly a means of making you pay them for everything twice without being able to blame them for it.

 

Let's face it, it doesn't matter who makes the law when it's good law.  Nor does it matter who makes the law when it's bad law. 

 

I've seen lots of sandy vaginas from people who seem to think it's important that it's our bunch of useless cretins who make laws - it isn't.  It's just important that we get good laws.

 

'Sandy vaginas'...I had to look that one up. I have to say that I disagree completely and fundamentally with your post.

 

Just to give a hypothetical example. Imagine that the current crisis in the Ukraine blows over but the pro-Russia group in the east keeps up the pressure to such an extent that in ten years time Russia decides to act. By this time the embryonic EU army is much bigger and an EU law is passed ordering EU-wide national conscription to fight the Russian peril (who knows which unelected totalitarian monster might be heading up the EU by this time). Now there are some who would consider this to be 'good law', you might be amongst them. There might be others like myself who owe no allegiance to the EU flag who might think this to be thoroughly 'bad law'. Good and bad in this instance is largely a matter of opinion. Of course if we were a self-governing democracy then 'bad law' can easily be overturned by the next elected government if the electorate so wishes. I simply cannot understand why so many people are prepared to see the ability to make our own law handed over to a foreign power.

[chipdawg]

'Sandy vaginas'...I had to look that one up. I have to say that I disagree completely and fundamentally with your post.

Just to give a hypothetical example. Imagine that the current crisis in the Ukraine blows over but the pro-Russia group in the east keeps up the pressure to such an extent that in ten years time Russia decides to act. By this time the embryonic EU army is much bigger and an EU law is passed ordering EU-wide national conscription to fight the Russian peril (who knows which unelected totalitarian monster might be heading up the EU by this time). Now there are some who would consider this to be 'good law', you might be amongst them. There might be others like myself who owe no allegiance to the EU flag who might think this to be thoroughly 'bad law'. Good and bad in this instance is largely a matter of opinion. Of course if we were a self-governing democracy then 'bad law' can easily be overturned by the next elected government if the electorate so wishes. I simply cannot understand why so many people are prepared to see the ability to make our own law handed over to a foreign power.

But the EU doesn't currently have the power to conscript and, perhaps more importantly, doesn't have its own army. There isn't even a binding agreement for an EU military policy, as demonstrated in differing attitudes to Syria and Libya across the big players in the EU. So unless there's significant change in the current EU make up, your hypothetical example is impossible

[marshy]

I think you have made a spurious link between the Greeks joining the Euro and their sovereign debt crisis. The Greek Ministry of Finance suggested 5 major causes for the economic problems of 2009:

 

• Lower than expected GDP growth
• Huge fiscal imbalances developed during the years from 2004 to 2009
• Enormous government debt
• Lack of budget compliance
• Lack of statistical credibility (i.e. the government was 'fanciful' in its predictions)

Add to that a level of corruption and tax evasion that led to the Greek government collecting about half the expected revenues, it is unsurprising that they fell in to some financial difficulty.

 

However, none of this can be attributed to membership of the EU or the Euro.

 

Furthermore, the modern Drachma was first used in 1832, shortly after the establishment of the Greek state. It was devalued twice (1928 and 1944) due to hyperinflation. The original Drachma of ancient Greece went out of use about 2000 years ago and was replaced by Roman coinage.

 

Finally, is it possible for you to write a post without all the rubbish. It is truly tedious to read your description of Blair or the EU each and every time you have thought?

 

Just to comment on one of your points although they are to a large extent interconnected and certainly connected to membership of the Eurozone.

Greece is in a huge deflationary spiral with massive levels of unemployment and youth unemployment in particular. Economic policy has been largely taken out of their own hands, it is in effect a puppet government.

 

They are being forced by the Troika to follow an austerity programme. This is deflationary in itself but when combined with euro membership in which they are saddled with a hugely overvalued currency the result is catastrophic. Sure their government made mistakes, year upon year of Socialist governments and massive overspending, that is undeniable but EU/euro membership is not giving them the tools they need to extricate themselves from their current plight.