"i'm A Winner."

[Super]

People prob think SC is not the answer me included, but listening to the SOD love in time and time again when he did such a dreadful job is just embarrassing.

[NickJ]

He was despised at Forest due to his ridiculous, bullshit post-match interviews, his massive unjustified ego, his "direct" anti-football style of play, his lack of intelligence, persevering with tactics/players that don't work, bringing in physical "can do the dirty" types as opposed to play footballers with ability and nearly taking them down but for the saving grace of SOD coming in as coach.

 

 

Exactly, as coach Will. He isn't a manager.

 

A few random quotes from a Forest forum:

 

He should stick to being a coach or No.2.  He'd be amongst the best around in those jobs instead of being a mediocre manager

 

I just think that he was too cerebral for the average footballer .. Lovely bloke but..............

 

That's what you get when your over cautious and your teams are boring as ****      

 

He deserved to get sacked at Forest too. His boring over cautious football had us a single point worse off than this time this season

 

They are talking about O-Driscoll BTW.

[Nibor]

You say I'm a hypocrite because I've criticised O'Driscoll but post here that I am bored of the whole SOD v SC endless roundabout.

Two separate things: 1) because you were hyper critical of SOD yet now defend Cotterill from criticisms that roughly equivalent. 2) because you complain about the endless SOD v SC roundabout yet are one of the principal posters who causes it.

Now to the thing you took umbrage at - as you always do when someone challenges your assertions. You think Cotterill's appointment was a bad one and fair enough, you can take that view, although I think it's too early to judge.

Those two points that you use as "major reasons" why he was wrong for the club are very weak however. He is a "divisive" figure who was "opposed" by the "majority of fans". First up, how did you carry out this survey? I don't remember getting a ballot paper.

It's fair to say, his appointment was opposed noisily by a number of people on this board, but you can't extrapolate that to the fanbase as a whole. I suspect if you'd walked around the Gate on Steve's first match in charge and questioned every spectator you'd find some people with strong opinions, but the majority would say "let's see how he does" or "can't be as bad as the last bloke" and some would probably say "Steve who?"

I haven't taken any umbrage I just generally respond in kind.

There was a poll on here prior to his appointment that had a sample size more than large enough to be reliable that made it clear that appointing him was opposed by the majority. Not that he wasn't the first choice, people actually saying NO to him beinb manager. The "we'll see how he does" sentiment emerged after it was a fait accomplit, as would be expected from fans given they can't change it. The consequences of appointing someone objected to like this are obvious - the complete lack of a honeymoon period and no real tolerance from fans who have in the main given other managers time. I think this is the reason there is no unity / siege mentality at AG, and a huge amount of malaise.

There were people who raised objections to McInnes "not experienced enough"; Millen "the cheap option" even Johnson "not proven at this level". I can't remember Alan Dicks' appointment but I imagine there might've been some consternation then. Being a "divisive figure" doesn't mean you are a bad manager. When Stoke appointed Pulis for the second time, there were fan protests outside the ground, but of course when he proved successful those fans who would "never go again" drifted back. Bloody hell! The popular choice on this board seems to be Warnock who has "divisive figure" engraved on his cufflinks!

Every potential appointment will have some objectors but few will have a clear majority objecting. Warnock is divisive in a different way - he polarizes. You either despise him (me) or love him. Probably this is in roughly equal measure.

You also state, he was a bad appointment because his public pronouncements made him difficult for some fans to like. Bloody hell, when have we heard that before?!

The nonsense things he says sometimes are there but not really what I mean. When I listen to him being interviewed I find all kinds of warnings going off in my head. The same kind I get from a tactless salesman. It is very hard to get behind someone you dislike and I find him dislikable. I think a majority of people do, but that is anecdotal.

My initial post on this thread said that post-match interviews - conducted in the heat of the moment as it were - do often contain some doozies. And 'I'm a winner' falls into that category. But really it doesn't matter what people say - he could've grabbed the Mic and said I Am A Dalek for all I care.

What matters is how he manages the team. We both can agree that there are some causes for concern there.

I haven't really commented on how he manages the team as it is too early but concerns are there. What I am more worried about though is the long term change that I believe is fundamental to any decent future the club might have is in my opinion at risk with someone like Cotterill in charge. Whilst relegation would be a complete arse, I'd take it if it was a consequence of a series of changes that meant a healthier club five years from now as opposed to scraping by and bumbling along at this level making a huge loss for five years. I believe SOD was working for the long term hence why I was disappointed to see him sacked. I believe Cotterill thinks no further than this weekend (and would do even when not in a relegation battle).

[Nogbad the Bad]

As Barrs says, nothing to do with Notts C - it's hardly one of the bigger city football rivalries. Forest/Derby is the biggie in those parts.

 

He was despised at Forest due to his ridiculous, bullshit post-match interviews, his massive unjustified ego, his "direct" anti-football style of play, his lack of intelligence, persevering with tactics/players that don't work, bringing in physical "can do the dirty" types as opposed to play footballers with ability and nearly taking them down but for the saving grace of SOD coming in as coach.

 

Think that just about covers it.

 

Your views on Cotterill are very well known and you've simply repeated them again there, rather than summarising the thoughts of Forest fans.

 

Neither of us know if a significant number of Forest fans share any, let alone all of those views.

[Kid in the Riot]

Exactly, as coach Will. He isn't a manager.

 

A few random quotes from a Forest forum:

 

He should stick to being a coach or No.2.  He'd be amongst the best around in those jobs instead of being a mediocre manager

 

I just think that he was too cerebral for the average footballer .. Lovely bloke but..............

 

That's what you get when your over cautious and your teams are boring as ****      

 

He deserved to get sacked at Forest too. His boring over cautious football had us a single point worse off than this time this season

 

They are talking about O-Driscoll BTW.

 

Which is why he was Head Coach here Nick and not manager, only our board and many fans don't seem to appreciate the subtle differences...doomed to fail really.

 

Interestingly there's a fair few quotes on the Forest forum that suggest SC should stick to coaching as well...

[NickJ]

That's just a title Will. He was manager in all but name, he had ultimate responsibility for the playing staff.

 

 

At Forest he was number 2 and it worked.

 

Here he was number 1 whatever you call it.

 

He may be a coach, but he cannot manage, and part of his role irrespective of title, was to manage.

 

That was probably a failing of the board to think that one through, but when the board is led by somebody with little experience, predictably inevitable.

 

 

Anyway that's off my agenda, I'm just ****** off with SC being hammered while he is OUR manager.

[Kid in the Riot]

Your views on Cotterill are very well known and you've simply repeated them again there, rather than summarising the thoughts of Forest fans.

 

Neither of us know if a significant number of Forest fans share any, let alone all of those views.

 

Uh oh - someone hasn't seen the infamous thread on the Forest forum when SC joined us! I think you'll find I've summarised the views expressed by 95% of the posts on that thread very succinctly!

 

And I'd add I know several Forest season ticket holders who said exactly the same.

[Kid in the Riot]

That's just a title Will. He was manager in all but name, he had ultimate responsibility for the playing staff.

 

 

At Forest he was number 2 and it worked.

 

Here he was number 1 whatever you call it.

 

He may be a coach, but he cannot manage, and part of his role irrespective of title, was to manage.

 

That was probably a failing of the board to think that one through, but when the board is led by somebody with little experience, predictably inevitable.

 

Anyway that's off my agenda, I'm just ****** off with SC being hammered while he is OUR manager.

 

Well, on that we can agree.

 

Maybe we should repeat what Forest did and draft SOD in as coach for the last 13 games!

 

I'm just ****ed off that SC is our manager, and on that I'm sure we'll never agree

[Fiale]

wow just seen the post count - sad state of affairs. I know fans don't get a say in appointments, but when a vast majority prior to the appointment are saying no to a certain person - you have to be very brave to then appoint them - let's hope SL is right, because patience seems to be thinner atm than any other point over the last few years.

[Red_Jim]

Well, on that we can agree.

 

Maybe we should repeat what Forest did and draft SOD in as coach for the last 13 games!

 

I'm just ****ed off that SC is our manager, and on that I'm sure we'll never agree

 

Look, we all get your point. I didn't really want him as manager either if I'm honest. But why do you have to keep banging on about it? It's just negative dirge now and it's one of the reasons I find it hard to read this forum at the moment. I'll be glad when the season is over and I can take a break from reading these pages in the hope I might find something positive/insightful. It's just an endless cycle of negativity and people massaging their own egos. I feel more depressed reading these threads than I do at 5pm most Saturdays.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Uh oh - someone hasn't seen the infamous thread on the Forest forum when SC joined us! I think you'll find I've summarised the views expressed by 95% of the posts on that thread very succinctly!

 

And I'd add I know several Forest season ticket holders who said exactly the same.

 

I said a significant number - that means of a fanbase, not a forum thread.

 

They are just a small number of fans who didn't like him for whatever reason, just like yourself, so took pleasure to take the opportunity to write scathingly about him. You will always find fans with a grudge to bear against an ex-manager - look at some of the comments GJ gets on here - and these Forest fans don't exactly sound intelligent themselves, do they?

 

As I said 1 or 2 threads on a club forum by strongly opinionated individuals is not indicative of fans' views in general and this very thread is a prime example of how unrepresentative they can be.

 

Either way, Cotteril has been very well liked by fans of some clubs he's managed, and moved on undespised from others, so the views of those Forest fans need to be balanced against that.

[Kid in the Riot]

I said a significant number - that means of a fanbase, not a forum thread.

 

They are just a small number of fans who didn't like him for whatever reason, just like yourself, so took pleasure to take the opportunity to write scathingly about him. You will always find fans with a grudge to bear against an ex-manager - look at some of the comments GJ gets on here - and these Forest fans don't exactly sound intelligent themselves, do they?

 

As I said 1 or 2 threads on a club forum by strongly opinionated individuals is not indicative of fans' views in general and this very thread is a prime example of how unrepresentative they can be.

 

Either way, Cotteril has been very well liked by fans of some clubs he's managed, and moved on undespised from others, so the views of those Forest fans need to be balanced against that.

 

C'mon, you know that SC won't be winning a popularity contest at Forest anytime soon - or Pompey for that matter. It's difficult to find any comments on the internet praising SC, in fact most of the positive quotes about SC come from SC himself!

 

I don't see how GJ is relevant either, his approval rating at City is still very high. His ill-informed dissenters are very much in a minority.

[Super]

C'mon, you know that SC won't be winning a popularity contest at Forest anytime soon - or Pompey for that matter. It's difficult to find any comments on the internet praising SC, in fact most of the positive quotes about SC come from SC himself!

 

I don't see how GJ is relevant either, his approval rating at City is still very high. His ill-informed dissenters are very much in a minority.

 

I never knew this was a popularity contest. For me it is all down to results.

[NickJ]

 It's difficult to find any comments on the internet praising SC, in fact most of the positive quotes about SC come from SC himself!

 

Behave Will.

 

Burnley:

 

http://www.clarets-mad.co.uk/feat/edx6/steve_cotterill__june_2004_to_november_2007_297698/index.shtml

 

Sample quotes:

 

He was Burnley manager for just over three seasons and....we always looked in with a chance of reaching the play offs

 

In his first season in particular it was remarkable given the size of the squad

 

Cotterill's third, and ultimately final, season got off to a great start. We were playing our best football in a long time and headed the league for a while

 

Given what he started with there is no doubt that he definitely improved the club

 

He will though be judged by many on results alone. We never did make a sustained challenge for the play offs, but he kept us in the second tier of English football for three years and that, looking back, was some achievement in, at times, difficult circumstances.

[redcherryberry]

[Aizoon]

I never knew this was a popularity contest. For me it is all down to results.

 

That's what we were told when our last three managers were given the boot...

[samo II]

Man, I've been dreading games recently, but if us getting on the pitch again stops or distracts from this ridiculous Civil War-like clash, roll on Saturday, however bad it might end up being...

[Red-Robbo]

[Aizoon]

Elliott would've had a physical and be cleared for play. Sometimes these things aren't so easy to judge. You might say Cunningham was brought back too soon last season and Shorey thrown in too soon earlier this one.

Can't say much about Barnett but El-Abd is a strange one. My Brighton supporting friend is flabbergasted that he hasn't been the hit of the team - taken the division by storm. Being played out of position hasn't helped, but I'm not sure he even looks sound as a central defender. Perhaps, as may have happened to Fielding, a poor debut has hit his confidence for six.

Possibly he's not used the the degree of venom he gets from his own fans?

[Gazred]

Possibly he's not used the the degree of venom he gets from his own fans?

 

It's a fair point. We have signed the equivalent of Brighton's Louis Carey, albeit a few years younger. He could probably do no wrong there, bar the occasional below par performance, but the symbiosis of that relationship with the supporters and given Brighton's relative success over the last few years, it's no surprise to see him struggling to settle into the team here.

 

I'm sure he will come good, certainly prefer that sooner rather than later.

[Kid in the Riot]

Elliott would've had a physical and be cleared for play. Sometimes these things aren't so easy to judge. You might say Cunningham was brought back too soon last season and Shorey thrown in too soon earlier this one.

Can't say much about Barnett but El-Abd is a strange one. My Brighton supporting friend is flabbergasted that he hasn't been the hit of the team - taken the division by storm. Being played out of position hasn't helped, but I'm not sure he even looks sound as a central defender. Perhaps, as may have happened to Fielding, a poor debut has hit his confidence for six.

But to not take a look at W Elliott even ONCE in a live game this season?? No sorry, that's completely irresponsible.

Simply, he's playing our two best CBs as full backs. Playing two CBs together that don't complement each other in the slightest, and playing our best LB as a winger.

He's done it 3 games on the trot and its resulted in 2 shit performances and needs to stop. And drop Barnett please.

[stephenkibby.]

well that's my punishment for tonight reading three pages of this thread.

 

please continue tomorrow, then the drudge of the matchday thread {official} will seem upbeat even when we're 2/0 down to the gills.

[NickJ]

SC is absolutely despised by Forest fans, Nogbad.

 

Sorry mate but he is OUR manager and you are not correct!

 

Forest:

 

http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1

 

 

Among the mainly complementary or at least respectful comments I particularly like:

 

As has already been said, he came in to a difficult situation. He realised he couldn't do it on his own, brought in a good coach and, with a bit of wheeling and dealing got the right bodies in and we stayed up.

Brought in good people - ironically SOD - to work with him. That's a strength and a sign of a good manager.

 

 

I like the common sense here:

 

He came in to keep us in the Championship and achieved just that. Some may argue that Sean O'Driscoll and the addition of Adlene Guedioura helped him achieve that goal, but Cotterill was the manager, the job got done under his tenure and he should have left with his head held high.

And this sums up quite well:

 

He inherited a mess...a thread bare squad, players with no confidence , injuries worked against him too...guys, the strike force that he had at his disposal is barely making the bench this year

 

Even the posters who criticise his management mainly recognize the difficult situation at Forest and in the main wish him well, so no, Forest supporters do not despise Cotterill.

 

 

[Red-Robbo]

Two separate things: 1) because you were hyper critical of SOD yet now defend Cotterill from criticisms that roughly equivalent. 2) because you complain about the endless SOD v SC roundabout yet are one of the principal posters who causes it.

I haven't taken any umbrage I just generally respond in kind.

There was a poll on here prior to his appointment that had a sample size more than large enough to be reliable that made it clear that appointing him was opposed by the majority. Not that he wasn't the first choice, people actually saying NO to him beinb manager. The "we'll see how he does" sentiment emerged after it was a fait accomplit, as would be expected from fans given they can't change it. The consequences of appointing someone objected to like this are obvious - the complete lack of a honeymoon period and no real tolerance from fans who have in the main given other managers time. I think this is the reason there is no unity / siege mentality at AG, and a huge amount of malaise.

Every potential appointment will have some objectors but few will have a clear majority objecting. Warnock is divisive in a different way - he polarizes. You either despise him (me) or love him. Probably this is in roughly equal measure.

The nonsense things he says sometimes are there but not really what I mean. When I listen to him being interviewed I find all kinds of warnings going off in my head. The same kind I get from a tactless salesman. It is very hard to get behind someone you dislike and I find him dislikable. I think a majority of people do, but that is anecdotal.

I haven't really commented on how he manages the team as it is too early but concerns are there. What I am more worried about though is the long term change that I believe is fundamental to any decent future the club might have is in my opinion at risk with someone like Cotterill in charge. Whilst relegation would be a complete arse, I'd take it if it was a consequence of a series of changes that meant a healthier club five years from now as opposed to scraping by and bumbling along at this level making a huge loss for five years. I believe SOD was working for the long term hence why I was disappointed to see him sacked. I believe Cotterill thinks no further than this weekend (and would do even when not in a relegation battle).

 

 

Well, I think you're being unfair on that first point. I supported the appointment, and continued to support his retention as manager long after many had given up on him. Finally, what made me abandon my support for the guy, was that he was sold to us as a "great coach" and coaching has been in my opinion some sadly neglected here. However even many months in we were getting worse at defending set pieces, the organisation just was chaotic, our corners were pathetic, my personal bugbear throw-ins hadn't improved and many players - Joe Bryan and Greg Cunningham to name but two seemed to be going backwards in their development. Allied to that the results and he lost my confidence. I recognize some good qualities in the man although I never thought he was quite as "deep" as his devotees thought. The pseudo intellectuals' pseudo intellectual, perhaps?

 

Now I might've made jocular references to his dull voice and constant sniff, but one thing I didn't do was call him thick, an idiot, a clown, a bullshitter, a penis. All things Cotterill has been called on this thread! So to say I have been guilty of referring to SOD in the same way SC is being abused is wide of the mark. SOD's interview demeanour didn't bother me either.

 

On your second point, yes maybe I have spoken about that time too much. I'm trying not too, because it's got tiresome, but mea culpa to leaping in on occasions. I obviously had to mention my attitude to him here to try to explain that my opinion of him was not the sort of deep animus some here feel for SC.

 

As to that survey, I really don't think you extrapolate something that maybe 200 people voted in and say it applies to 10/20,000 people. I never think this board is reflective. It is a hothouse dominated by the strongly opinionated and the professional moaner. I read things on the board in support of SOD I've never heard on the terraces or the pubs. Plus I don't recall that poll having a don't know option. That's where I was and am, and I suspect the majority of supporters fall into that group.

 

To be fair to you, you've always stated you'd hate Cotterill  to come here and have been 100% consistent. But while you may be ahead of the curve there, others are more sheepy characters swayed by the dire predictions of hoofball and no youngsters playing that were made at the time of the appointment. Not to mention the carefully selected quotes from Forest fans - as if we should give a shyte what they think.

 

Nick and Noggers are dealing with the assertions that no-one likes SC very adequately, so I have no need to continue this argument.

 

As you'd expect, I totally disagree with your last paragraph.

 

Anyway, you know what I think and I've pretty much said all I have to say about SOD. He's had nice things said about him by Brendan Rogers and Arsene Wenger I know, but what stand have they got ST's in?!

 

I hope we both don't have to carry on endlessly repeating ourselves on the same subjects.

 

Sorry about the long post. Can't seem to 'chop up' my response from this Kindle. And thanks for keeping it non-personal.

[RedZepperin]

Is anyone actually taking a note of these cock measurements?

[Red-Robbo]

But to not take a look at W Elliott even ONCE in a live game this season?? No sorry, that's completely irresponsible.

Simply, he's playing our two best CBs as full backs. Playing two CBs together that don't complement each other in the slightest, and playing our best LB as a winger.

He's done it 3 games on the trot and its resulted in 2 shit performances and needs to stop. And drop Barnett please.

Can't argue with your last two-thirds Kid. Said the same myself.

[Red-Robbo]

Is anyone actually taking a note of these cock measurements?

 

 

I did apologise for the extreme length.   ;-)

[Kid in the Riot]

Is anyone actually taking a note of these cock measurements?

Are you volunteering?

[Kid in the Riot]

Sorry mate but he is OUR manager and you are not correct!

Forest:

http://www.forest.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=24192&start=1

Among the mainly complementary or at least respectful comments I particularly like:

As has already been said, he came in to a difficult situation. He realised he couldn't do it on his own, brought in a good coach and, with a bit of wheeling and dealing got the right bodies in and we stayed up.

Brought in good people - ironically SOD - to work with him. That's a strength and a sign of a good manager.

I like the common sense here:

He came in to keep us in the Championship and achieved just that. Some may argue that Sean O'Driscoll and the addition of Adlene Guedioura helped him achieve that goal, but Cotterill was the manager, the job got done under his tenure and he should have left with his head held high.

And this sums up quite well:

He inherited a mess...a thread bare squad, players with no confidence , injuries worked against him too...guys, the strike force that he had at his disposal is barely making the bench this year

Even the posters who criticise his management mainly recognize the difficult situation at Forest and in the main wish him well, so no, Forest supporters do not despise Cotterill.

You gotta be pulling my plonker old boy!

That thread is 95% anti SC, as I said. There are several Forest fans on there who claim to have questioned watching football AT ALL with SC in charge!

And Im not getting all this OUR manager stuff?! Only cus SL is paying his wage. SC is about as mercenary as managers get - see Notts C and Pompey where he actually helped engineer his move to Forest!

Even if by some unlikely occurrence he had some success here, he'd be off in a shot!

[HoldenBall]

and Ian lodge, I'm embaressed that people like you don't think other City fans are entitled to a opinion !

I'm embarrassed that 99% of your posts are typed be a 5 year old.