Aizoon Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I would love to see AV go ahead and, for that matter, the UWE stadium. That's not just for the football, but to put the NIMBYs, BANANAs and Greens in their place. If they don't like Bristol being a City, then they can swan back off to the Home Counties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 AV is/would be the preferred option for the majority of us I suspect (inc, BCFC, SL, the Council(dunno about red trousers) but the knock on financial/commercial benefits for the City & County Of cannot be ignored either. Cant imagine retaining the Gate & having a new stadium at AV has ever been viable, the sale of the Gate for retail redevelopment was I believe a fundimental enabler financially for the go-ahead of plans for new stadium delivery. (has that changed?? I dont think so).... So if, and there are a lot of if's, the desire is still in SL's heart to build a super state of the art stadium at AV (for the benefit of us & the City of Bristol as a whole) and the ludicrous 'village green' bullshit is overturned ....... Do we know if the option to sell the A/Gate site to Sainsbury is still a possibility, with all the uncertainty, delays etc it would appear that the supermarket group have been extremely patient - are they still interested in AG after all this time or in a fast moving World have they moved on to other planned projects & lost interest? If Sainsbury is still on - OK the enabling money from the sale of AG could make Ashton Vale a possibility, (assuming all the other if's & buts are also favourable) - on the other hand if Sainsbury have lost the desire & interest after all this time, wouldnt the loss of that piece of SL's jigsaw mean village green or no village green that AV Stadium would still be a dead in the water dream?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I would love to see AV go ahead and, for that matter, the UWE stadium. That's not just for the football, but to put the NIMBYs, BANANAs and Greens in their place. If they don't like Bristol being a City, then they can swan back off to the Home Counties... Exactly. If the city isn't the place for big venues then where the hell is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhistleHappy Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Anyone know of any Club murmurings on this legal development yet (official or otherwise) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippy273 Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The year the AG redevelopment finishes knowing our luck! It is too much of a gamble and too uncertain whether this land will be stripped of Village Green status, especially if the gas overturn their judicial review. Pushing for redevelopment is the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Anyone know of any Club murmurings on this legal development yet (official or otherwise) ? I imagine that SL is playing his cards very close to his chest. When dealing with the liars and shysters of the AVG it's the only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I don't think so, but it's such a grey area, with the general public not knowing much of the finer detail. The TVG supporters would say that it has been registered. I don't believe it has though, because they applied for all of the site and there has not been a conclusion of the case as yet. I believe, there's a whole new inspection currently deferred at the moment. The council tried to register the southern part of the site as a possible compromise deal, then got the boundaries wrong on the site plan, yet the TVG lot still think it's registered even if the boundaries are marked incorrectly. Exactly right. The case has definitely not concluded yet, therefore as it stands the stadium site has NOT been granted TVG status. As for the question "will AV ever happen?" the planning consent expires this year so if an application to renew the consent is not submitted in the coming months then there's your answer... There's no guarantee, by the way, that the consent would be renewed as many circumstances have changed since 2009. Not least, no world cup argument and last time round we claimed redeveloping AG was not viable! AV looks totally dead to me. With housing not a realistic option either I reckon it might be Bristol Sport who take it on and build some sporting facilities which could be acceptable in Green Belt terms. Or maybe a training ground for the rugby as there's over near Cribbs at the moment aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I imagine that SL is playing his cards very close to his chest. When dealing with the liars and shysters of the AVG it's the only option. We're already openly discussing what might or might not be the situation. You can bet your sweet betty, that bunch of people you so eloquently described are still monitoring this site for anything they can use against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Exactly right. The case has definitely not concluded yet, therefore as it stands the stadium site has NOT been granted TVG status. As for the question "will AV ever happen?" the planning consent expires this year so if an application to renew the consent is not submitted in the coming months then there's your answer... There's no guarantee, by the way, that the consent would be renewed as many circumstances have changed since 2009. Not least, no world cup argument and last time round we claimed redeveloping AG was not viable! AV looks totally dead to me. With housing not a realistic option either I reckon it might be Bristol Sport who take it on and build some sporting facilities which could be acceptable in Green Belt terms. Or maybe a training ground for the rugby as there's over near Cribbs at the moment aren't they? The possible world cup had no baring on the PP, the argument was used to raise public support. The reason it met extenuating circumstances for greenbelt development was that it was for a stadium of 30,000, which could be expanded up to 42,000. AG has only been given permission for 26,500 and as such cannot be developed likewise. There might be some resistance from GF if the application went in for renewal, but if it met planning law requirements before, then it should only be updating and rubber stamping it for another three years, but I know where your coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The possible world cup had no baring on the PP, the argument was used to raise public support. The reason it met extenuating circumstances for greenbelt development was that it was for a stadium of 30,000, which could be expanded up to 42,000. AG has only been given permission for 26,500 and as such cannot be developed likewise. There might be some resistance from GF if the application went in for renewal, but if it met planning law requirements before, then it should only be updating and rubber stamping it for another three years, but I know where your coming from. Bit of a contradiction, it definitely helped. The "renewal" application is not neccessarily straightforward I'm afraid, as the application has to be considered by BCC in it's entirety again and IMO our case is weaker this time around. Only last weak the coalition government released a ministerial statement reinforcing the importance of protecting the green belt from inappropriate development which technically a stadium is. Even if we were granted a renewal - it would be JR'd you'd expect. SL and his team must of considered all this and thought - is it worth it? I'm not convinced it is anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aizoon Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 We're already openly discussing what might or might not be the situation. You can bet your sweet betty, that bunch of people you so eloquently described are still monitoring this site for anything they can use against us. True. But that's just gossip. SL is the one that matters in all this and he's keeping schtum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 The "renewal" application is not neccessarily straightforward I'm afraid, as the application has to be considered by BCC in it's entirety again and IMO our case is weaker this time around. Only last weak the coalition government released a ministerial statement reinforcing the importance of protecting the green belt from inappropriate development which technically a stadium is. Even if we were granted a renewal - it would be JR'd you'd expect. SL and his team must of considered all this and thought - is it worth it? I'm not convinced it is anymore. Still sounds like a minefield. Will the building of the south Bristol link road not affect the land status? Also, since you seem privy to this info - when does the AV pp expire this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 My bad, actually the club have until 5th April 2016 to start construction on site under the existing consent. Maybe not dead just yet then... Still sounds like a minefield. Will the building of the south Bristol link road not affect the land status? Also, since you seem privy to this info - when does the AV pp expire this year? Ashton Gate Ltd tried to get the status of the land changed and removed from the GB but I think they failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITYAREREDANDWHITE Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 I thought planning permission only started when we were allowed to build, which we are not at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 This is the latest on the TVG situation from BCC web site: Following the submission of the inspector's report (download the report form the links on this page) the Town and Village green application was considered by the Public Rights of Way and Greens Committee in June 2011. The Committee resolved to register part of the land. The decision not to register part of the land was challenged in the courts. The Council withdrew its defence and agreed to reconsider the matter. On 8 August 2012 the Council confirmed that it would be referring back the matter of whether or not the disputed land in Ashton Vale should become registered as a Town and Village Green to the original expert independent inspector who first considered detailed evidence on the matter, barrister Ross Crail. Ms Crail held a lengthy pre-inquiry meeting with the parties in November 2012. Having heard various submissions, including availability of counsel and witness availability in the summer, the parties were in agreement to the inquiry commencing on 7 October 2013. The public inquiry has been adjourned at the request of the parties. The parties have been asked to supply their availability for dates in March/April 2014. http://www.bristol.gov.uk/page/planning-and-building-regulations/ashton-vale-application-town-and-village-green-status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Thing is, the way in which AG is to be redeveloped doesn't reinforce this train of thought. There is a very tight reconstruction timetable from May this year, right through until completion in 2016. It's gonna be a very busy schedule and we will see the gate transform before our eyes (which is one of the reasons I ALMOST prefer that option over AV - purely because I find it fascinating to watch) but to leave it after developing the ee only, will leave the gate in a strange state. Even if it were only for three or four years it would be a odd decision. It's only a schedule and not hard and fast. If we were relegated and did a gas, by that I mean stayed in the fourth tier for a lengthy period, I'm sure all or part of it would be delayed. If there's a chance we can go ahead at AV, does he throw any more money at AG for a stadium that offers little scope for expansion? There are too many questions that none of us know the answers to, it's all speculation. As for a tight timetable, they've already changed the plans before starting by removing the boxes from the Dolman and a floor from the new end, what other changes lie ahead? It now means that the upgrading of AG into a modern stadium, won't include corporate boxes until the Williams is built, something that has been holding the club back for years and something the corporate rugby followers would surely have paid for, if not, football supporters, now that's an odd decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 9, 2014 Report Share Posted March 9, 2014 Bit of a contradiction, it definitely helped. The "renewal" application is not neccessarily straightforward I'm afraid, as the application has to be considered by BCC in it's entirety again and IMO our case is weaker this time around. Only last weak the coalition government released a ministerial statement reinforcing the importance of protecting the green belt from inappropriate development which technically a stadium is. Even if we were granted a renewal - it would be JR'd you'd expect. SL and his team must of considered all this and thought - is it worth it? I'm not convinced it is anymore. Sorry but like in a court of law, the committee were told to ignore any possible speculative use, mind you, did they. Is this the same coalition government that have made planning laws even easier, causing uproar in rural England with the threat of speculative house building applications on greenbelt land, increasing daily? It depends on what inappropriate development is perceived to be, the stadium met the criteria, which it would still do and BCC would be in for one hell of a beating in the courts if they suddenly decided that their decision was flawed and didn't ratify an extension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manon Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 It's only a schedule and not hard and fast. If we were relegated and did a gas, by that I mean stayed in the fourth tier for a lengthy period, I'm sure all or part of it would be delayed. If there's a chance we can go ahead at AV, does he throw any more money at AG for a stadium that offers little scope for expansion? There are too many questions that none of us know the answers to, it's all speculation. As for a tight timetable, they've already changed the plans before starting by removing the boxes from the Dolman and a floor from the new end, what other changes lie ahead? It now means that the upgrading of AG into a modern stadium, won't include corporate boxes until the Williams is built, something that has been holding the club back for years and something the corporate rugby followers would surely have paid for, if not, football supporters, now that's an odd decision. I'm kind of with you on this. Like you said, there are too many unanswered questions with regards to AV which opens the door to wild speculation. With the enquiry thought to be reopening soon, you would have thought it would be worth SL's while seeing what out come there is before starting the redevelopment of AG. Certainly, the recent alterations could be viewed as being a mitigation of any possibility to retain the hope of a future build at dog walker's paradise. But all I was saying is that the re design of ashton gate hints at longevity, due to the fact that the whole stadium footprint will move. Once they build the new east end, that's it. Unless they complete the build, the stadium will remain in a strange state. There would be a gaping hole between dolman and ee, the southern corner part of east end would probably be redundant due to a conflict with the williams, and it would be mis-aligned with the pitch. For these reasons, I believe it is an all or nothing scenario; either we are relegated and/or AV suddenly comes screaming back onto the clubs radar - in which case we abandon the redevelopment. Or we complete the rebuild in two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Sorry but like in a court of law, the committee were told to ignore any possible speculative use, mind you, did they. Is this the same coalition government that have made planning laws even easier, causing uproar in rural England with the threat of speculative house building applications on greenbelt land, increasing daily? It depends on what inappropriate development is perceived to be, the stadium met the criteria, which it would still do and BCC would be in for one hell of a beating in the courts if they suddenly decided that their decision was flawed and didn't ratify an extension. I'm telling you buddy, and believe me I should know, it's NOT as simple as you are making out! You can't just keep renewing a consent until the end of time based on the original decision. Anyway this debate is not relevant for the time being as the consent doesn't run out until 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippy273 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In the Net Posted March 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 A very complicated situation re. AV, but, to paraphrase Kevin Keegan, I'd love it, I'd just love it if you were able to gain a victory over those who brought the process to a halt. It could get some momentum going if there were two new stadiums being built - the attendances for two clubs struggling at the wrong end of Divisions 3 and 4 (as was) shows that there is potential for sport to be reasonably supported in Bristol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ten minutes of rough Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 AV isn't even on the football clubs radar anymore, let alone a priority. It'll end up being a mix of housing and other low denisty buildings. Forever a missed opportunity thanks to a handful of liars. The thread is about overturning Village Green Status, the priority is AV for that is what will make this club a suitable challenger for the Premiership, SL knows this, so why do you take such a dim view of everything? Are we to capitulate at the behest of a few self serving NIMBY'S? or do we man up for the fight...you in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 The thread is about overturning Village Green Status, the priority is AV for that is what will make this club a suitable challenger for the Premier League, SL knows this, so why do you take such a dim view of everything? Are we to capitulate at the behest of a few self serving NIMBY'S? or do we man up for the fight...you in? What are you wittering about. The fights over and done with. AV won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 What are you wittering about. The fights over and done with. AV won't happen. Hmmm well it wasn't as of November last year mate as NLP on behalf of Ashton Gate Ltd made lengthy representations to BCC to get the land removed from the Green Belt and essentially safeguarded as a site for a new stadium. Yes, SL has come out and said we're redeveloping AG but he was very coy on his "plans" for AV at the AGM. I dunno what to make of it to be honest - but with over 2 years of the consent remaining you can't say it definitely ain't happening just yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Hmmm well it wasn't as of November last year mate as NLP on behalf of Ashton Gate Ltd made lengthy representations to BCC to get the land removed from the Green Belt and essentially safeguarded as a site for a new stadium. Yes, SL has come out and said we're redeveloping AG but he was very coy on his "plans" for AV at the AGM. I dunno what to make of it to be honest - but with over 2 years of the consent remaining you can't say it definitely ain't happening just yet... I'll twll you what I think next time I see you as I don't fancy being sued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 I believe it will happen, maybe in 5 years or 10 but it will happen. Developing AG in the short term doesn't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS34Red Posted March 10, 2014 Report Share Posted March 10, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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